On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:33:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
...


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

Because I have been eating it for twelve years now. On a small number of
occasions I have had too much, resulting in internal bleeding. It is
entirely painless and the main symptoms are general creeping lassitude and
very darkly coloured faeces.

You still haven't explained how you know that enough to cause death is
painless.

You haven't any evidence that it isn't.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

Mary Fisher22/2/04 5:35


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Mary Fisher22/2/04 1:47


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
...


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to kill. If
you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Mary


Are you serious about this, Mary? You think letting mice have free run of
the house (which is what will happen) is a good idea? That they should be
fed so that they breed even more?
You're not concerned about being over run, about the disease spread and
mouse dirt on e.g. kitchen work surfaces, floors, in humans' beds,
clothes,
linen cupboards etc?

er - your question doesn't relate to my words above it.

Mary
--


So sorry. My mistake. Trying again:

""Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...



Why trap them? It does not cost much to feed them well and they do one
hell
of a lot less damage than cats.

Quite.

Mary"

--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)

Mary Fisher22/2/04 5:35


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
Mary Fisher22/2/04 1:47


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
...


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to kill. If
you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Mary


Are you serious about this, Mary? You think letting mice have free run of
the house (which is what will happen) is a good idea? That they should be
fed so that they breed even more?
You're not concerned about being over run, about the disease spread and
mouse dirt on e.g. kitchen work surfaces, floors, in humans' beds,
clothes,
linen cupboards etc?

er - your question doesn't relate to my words above it.

Mary
--


So sorry. My mistake. Trying again:

""Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...



Why trap them? It does not cost much to feed them well and they do one
hell
of a lot less damage than cats.

Quite.

Mary"

--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

I have to consume precisely 2.5 milligram of Warfarin daily. Any less and I
stand in danger of problems with blood clots developing in my mechanical
heart valve. Any more and I start suffering from internal haemorraging.

Franz

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

I have to consume precisely 2.5 milligram of Warfarin daily. Any less and I
stand in danger of problems with blood clots developing in my mechanical
heart valve. Any more and I start suffering from internal haemorraging.

Franz

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:40:49 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:32:53 +0000, Jack Hammer
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

eh?

See what I mean!

Let's hear what it is that is bugging you about eating Warfarin to prevent
blood clotting in humans.

Franz

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:40:49 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:32:53 +0000, Jack Hammer
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

eh?

See what I mean!

Let's hear what it is that is bugging you about eating Warfarin to prevent
blood clotting in humans.

Franz

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to kill. If you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

As best I can tell, only mental anguish before going into a coma.

Franz

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to kill. If you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

As best I can tell, only mental anguish before going into a coma.

Franz

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

I have to consume precisely 2.5 milligram of Warfarin daily. Any less and I
stand in danger of problems with blood clots developing in my mechanical
heart valve. Any more and I start suffering from internal haemorraging.

Franz

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:47:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage
of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to kill. If you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Yes. It is a slow and agonizing death, rat or man would bleed to death
from the inside.

You are not speaking from experience at all. I am, in another thread. A
brief summary here is that you feel no physical pain before going into a
coma,
after which you feel neither physical nor mental pain.

The fact that very minute doses of poison are used
very successfully in medicine has nothing to do with it's use to kill
something.

The medicinal doses are not all that small. The clinical limits when
judging the correct dose is that the blood clotting time must stabilise at
somewhere between 2 and 4 times the clotting time for a normal person. This
is a bloody (literally) bind, as it makes even the removal of a tooth a
major operation.

Franz

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:40:49 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:32:53 +0000, Jack Hammer
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

eh?

See what I mean!

Let's hear what it is that is bugging you about eating Warfarin to prevent
blood clotting in humans.

Franz

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:47:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage
of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to kill. If you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Yes. It is a slow and agonizing death, rat or man would bleed to death
from the inside.

You are not speaking from experience at all. I am, in another thread. A
brief summary here is that you feel no physical pain before going into a
coma,
after which you feel neither physical nor mental pain.

The fact that very minute doses of poison are used
very successfully in medicine has nothing to do with it's use to kill
something.

The medicinal doses are not all that small. The clinical limits when
judging the correct dose is that the blood clotting time must stabilise at
somewhere between 2 and 4 times the clotting time for a normal person. This
is a bloody (literally) bind, as it makes even the removal of a tooth a
major operation.

Franz

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to kill. If you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

As best I can tell, only mental anguish before going into a coma.

Franz

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:47:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jack Hammer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:14:03 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:10:32 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
.. .


Warfarin-based poisons are not particularly unpleasant. The
victims
just
get weaker and weaker and lapse into a coma.

The Warfarin tends to prevent the blood clotting, and the passage
of
food down the gut abrades the villi (a design feature to allow
nutrients
to be absorbed through the walls of the blood vessels) and the
animal
loses blood internally, and weakens and dies. There is no pain
involved.

How do you know?

because it's used in humans as an anti clotting agent.

The village idiot mentality is astounding!

That sounds like the voice of experience.

Using a substance medicinally is not the same as using it to kill. If
you
fed enough Warfarin to a human to kill him would it cause pain?

Yes. It is a slow and agonizing death, rat or man would bleed to death
from the inside. The fact that very minute doses of poison are used
very successfully in medicine has nothing to do with it's use to kill
something.

Somebody said, "There is no pain involved." and I asked how that was
known.
It seems now that there IS pain involved.

From personal experience, no there is *no* physical pain involved, as I have
now stated at least three times.

Now who's the idiot?

Mary