"Bob wrote in message "Janet wrote in message ((snip))

About a week ago we saw something really odd; as we drove up our road
early in the morning, a largish bird of prey was sitting in the middle
of the tarmac, on something. It was the size of a buzzard but lighter
coloured on the breast. As we drew up, I realised the bird was not
injured, and not feeding on carrion. It was sitting on an abandoned
glove :-) and took off in a leisurely fashion as we drew up.My guess is,
an escaped/lost hunting hawk of some kind.


Should have put the glove on and waved it about a bit Janet, may have
acquired a new hobby (no pun intended) or at least something to really
keep
the pigeons off your plants. :-)

For those that didn't understand my pun comment...
http://www.birdsofbritain.co.uk/bird-guide/hobby.htm

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars

In article , Sacha
writes
David W.E. Roberts9/4/04 2:22


Hi,

about a week or so back, one morning whilst glancing out of the window from
across the room, I saw what looked like an explosion in a pigeon factory -
feathers everywhere and rising in the wind to blow over towards our garden.

By the time I got to the window for a good look, there were just a few
drifting feathers.

I assumed 'something' had got a pigeon, but probably not on the ground
because of the height of the cloud of feathers.

Today, looking out on our lawn, there is a cluster of pigeon feathers but no
pigeon.

They weren't there about an hour ago.

That's a dead give away for a sparrow hawk - that 'explosion' as you
describe and finding nothing but feathers.
I don't know where they take their prey to consume it but I do know that a
pigeon fancier told us that they eat the bird through its body and while
it's still alive.

Which is a typical pigeon fancier's emotive statement trying to gain
your sympathy for their birds and against sparrowhawks, though I'm not
quite sure what is meant by "eat the bird through its body". Nature
genuinely *is* red in tooth and claw and some predators do start eating
their prey before it is completely dead. Studies have shown that the
numbers of pigeons taken by sparrowhawks and other predators is a very
small percentage of overall losses. Ask your pigeon fancier how many
birds he kills himself each year as part of the normal process that
pigeon fanciers go through of weeding out the less successful birds and
keeping the best.

--
Malcolm

Malcolm12/4/04 7:36


In article , Sacha
writes
David W.E. Roberts9/4/04 2:22

Hi,

about a week or so back, one morning whilst glancing out of the window from
across the room, I saw what looked like an explosion in a pigeon factory -
feathers everywhere and rising in the wind to blow over towards our garden.

By the time I got to the window for a good look, there were just a few
drifting feathers.

I assumed 'something' had got a pigeon, but probably not on the ground
because of the height of the cloud of feathers.

Today, looking out on our lawn, there is a cluster of pigeon feathers but no
pigeon.

They weren't there about an hour ago.

That's a dead give away for a sparrow hawk - that 'explosion' as you
describe and finding nothing but feathers.
I don't know where they take their prey to consume it but I do know that a
pigeon fancier told us that they eat the bird through its body and while
it's still alive.

Which is a typical pigeon fancier's emotive statement trying to gain
your sympathy for their birds and against sparrowhawks, though I'm not
quite sure what is meant by "eat the bird through its body". Nature
genuinely *is* red in tooth and claw and some predators do start eating
their prey before it is completely dead.

So he was correct? Thank you.

Studies have shown that the
numbers of pigeons taken by sparrowhawks and other predators is a very
small percentage of overall losses. Ask your pigeon fancier how many
birds he kills himself each year as part of the normal process that
pigeon fanciers go through of weeding out the less successful birds and
keeping the best.

We were discussing sparrowhawks.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Malcolm
writes
Studies have shown that the
numbers of pigeons taken by sparrowhawks and other predators is a very
small percentage of overall losses.

Well, if a flock of about 30 white doves, in a couple of years is a
small percentage of the overall losses . . . . . . the sparrowhawk will
decimate the small bird population without any help from slug pellets
and hygienic farming practices ((((((((((

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

In article , Jane Ransom
writes
In article , Malcolm
writes
Studies have shown that the
numbers of pigeons taken by sparrowhawks and other predators is a very
small percentage of overall losses.

Well, if a flock of about 30 white doves, in a couple of years is a
small percentage of the overall losses . . . . . . the sparrowhawk will
decimate the small bird population without any help from slug pellets
and hygienic farming practices ((((((((((


Not necessarily. White doves are not exactly well adapted to escape
predation ;-)
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Jane Ransom
writes
In article , Malcolm
writes
Studies have shown that the
numbers of pigeons taken by sparrowhawks and other predators is a very
small percentage of overall losses.

Well, if a flock of about 30 white doves, in a couple of years is a
small percentage of the overall losses . . . . . . the sparrowhawk will
decimate the small bird population without any help from slug pellets
and hygienic farming practices ((((((((((

Hardly. Small birds will have far better innate predator avoidance
skills than white doves, as well as being much less conspicuous, not to
mention much less attractive as a meal!

--
Malcolm

In article , Malcolm
writes

Hardly. Small birds will have far better innate predator avoidance
skills than white doves, as well as being much less conspicuous, not to
mention much less attractive as a meal!

Sad, isn't it!!
The white dove, because of its inert, gentle characteristics, has become
the de facto symbol for peace.
Extending the analogy, it just goes to show, doesn't it, that if you are
kind and gentle and considerate, you are just swallowed up by violence .
.. . . and, moreover, that people think that is ok ((((((((((
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

In article , Jane Ransom
writes
In article , Malcolm
writes

Hardly. Small birds will have far better innate predator avoidance
skills than white doves, as well as being much less conspicuous, not to
mention much less attractive as a meal!

Sad, isn't it!!
The white dove, because of its inert, gentle characteristics, has become
the de facto symbol for peace.
Extending the analogy, it just goes to show, doesn't it, that if you are
kind and gentle and considerate, you are just swallowed up by violence .
. . . and, moreover, that people think that is ok ((((((((((

What could be more gentle than a quiet vegetarian going its own way,
never attacking another animal ... and yet gardeners enthusiastically
wage outright war on these, killing dozens at a time by poisoning,
drowning and butchering.

And going back to birds, there's the robin, one of the most universally
loved birds - and a little thug to boot.

All this supports your argument, but I really think one can take
anthropomorphism a little too far ;-)
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Kay Easton
writes
And going back to birds, there's the robin, one of the most universally
loved birds - and a little thug to boot.

Only in defence of his realm . . . only towards other robins . . . oh .
.. . and I suppose worms etc
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

In article , Kay Easton
writes
What could be more gentle than a quiet vegetarian going its own way,
never attacking another animal ... and yet gardeners enthusiastically
wage outright war on these, killing dozens at a time by poisoning,
drowning and butchering.

Funny how the visual aspect comes in to play.
I just can not see a slug ever becoming a symbol for peace !!!!!!!!
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:07:03 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

~In article , Kay Easton
writes
~And going back to birds, there's the robin, one of the most universally
~loved birds - and a little thug to boot.
~
~Only in defence of his realm . . . only towards other robins . . . oh .
~. . and I suppose worms etc

I was slightly disillusioned about robins after I saw one standing on
top of a blue tit, pecking it. If I hadn't seen it, I'd never have
believed it.

Still think they're beautiful birds with a lovely song.


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

In article , Jane Ransom
writes
In article , Malcolm
writes

Hardly. Small birds will have far better innate predator avoidance
skills than white doves, as well as being much less conspicuous, not to
mention much less attractive as a meal!

Sad, isn't it!!
The white dove, because of its inert, gentle characteristics, has become
the de facto symbol for peace.

Err, I think you may mean "innate" rather than "inert" :-)))

Extending the analogy, it just goes to show, doesn't it, that if you are
kind and gentle and considerate, you are just swallowed up by violence .
. . . and, moreover, that people think that is ok ((((((((((

Hmm, yes, well, even kind and gentle and considerate doves, while
feeding mainly on plant material, do eat at least some invertebrates so
might not exhibit quite all those characteristics to their prey.

--
Malcolm

Hmm, yes, well, even kind and gentle and considerate doves, while
feeding mainly on plant material, do eat at least some invertebrates so
might not exhibit quite all those characteristics to their prey.

And they'd still be alive when the were swallowed, I'm sure.
--
Tim C.

In article m, Tim
Challenger d writes

Hmm, yes, well, even kind and gentle and considerate doves, while
feeding mainly on plant material, do eat at least some invertebrates so
might not exhibit quite all those characteristics to their prey.

And they'd still be alive when the were swallowed, I'm sure.

Now *that* is naughty!

--
Malcolm

The message
from Jane Ransom contains these words:

In article , Malcolm
writes

Hardly. Small birds will have far better innate predator avoidance
skills than white doves, as well as being much less conspicuous, not to
mention much less attractive as a meal!

Sad, isn't it!!
The white dove, because of its inert, gentle characteristics, has become
the de facto symbol for peace.


White doves are not inert gentle and peaceful; they are aggressive and
quarrelsome among their own flock.

Extending the analogy, it just goes to show, doesn't it, that if you are
kind and gentle and considerate, you are just swallowed up by violence .
. . . and, moreover, that people think that is ok ((((((((((

No; it just goes to show that idlers who sit around doing nothing all
day except stuffing their faces on free handouts, showing off,
threatening each other, constantly trying to seduce every female within
reach including their own daughters and breeding like flies will not
live to a ripe old age. They will always be overcome by determined
active people who fend for themselves, build their own homes and make
the most of their skills and opportunities.

Just as well, since the idle irresponsible bums reproduce every 6 weeks
all year round, and without any population control, would have exhausted
society's resources long ago.

Janet.