On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:00:20 +0100, JK wrote:

Anyone have a working method for deterring cats from using my garden as
a litter tray? I have two toddlers and I'd rather they took precedence
over the neighbours cat. I've so far seen a few methods, any comments on
these:

1. ultrasonic screamers (with IR detectors to trigger them)
2. water squirters (ditto)
3. aromatics
4. "zoo poo"

While humourous replies are always welcome, this is a serious question -
cat crap is pretty toxic and smelly stuff, I don't want it in my garden,
and I imagine I'm not alone.

I gave up at my last property. The cats won. Those green crystals
stank more than the cat poo.

MM

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:17:18 +0100, "w.g.s.hamm"
wrote:


"JK" wrote in message
news:1112783080.483a4fb009585c28216fa9a5e8406e2e@ teranews...
Just out of curiosity. Once you have stopped the cats from coming into
your
garden, what will you do about wild birds shitting, hedgehogs, mice,
rats
and other beasties all pooing where your crawling infants go?


I don't have any problems with them.
but you should, really. Rat urine cannot be seen and weils disease which
can be caught from it could potentially kill a small child :0(
Salmonella and psittacosis from wild pigeons is also nasty.
Personally my son grew up with animals, no doubt ingested hair, dander,
etc, probably rolled in cat or dog poo occasionally when he and his friends
would trash my land digging trenches (aided by several dogs) to play war
games and grew up fit, strong and healthy.
I have always had rather a lot of animals, cats included, and so did my
son's friends who were mainly neighbouring farmer's children and had
enormous fun playing at flicking wet cow pats at one another with whippy
twigs. Apart from sensible precautions like washing hands before eating we
didn't worry too much. None of them was ever seriously ill with other than
the usual childhood stuff. My nephew however was coddled by his obsessively
clean mother and when they visited, she wouldn't even allow the child down
onto the floor in my house because dogs and cats had walked there. He grew
up with a myriad of health issues from glue ear, to sinus problems etc and
was a sickly child.

I absolutely agree with this. Today's townie kids' immune systems are
shot to pieces because the kids never get their peck of dirt while
growing up. When do you see kids playing outside in the fields
nowadays? Everyone is scared of 'stranger danger'. If they do go out
of doors away from the telly or computer game, they just ride their
bikes around. Where's the cowboys and injuns, the lying on the ground
playing fives, that kind of thing? Kids (and adults) have little
contact with the natural world, then suddenly, panic, as 'bird flu'
strikes.

If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.

MM

If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.



Er...infant mortality in Victorian London was very high. The survivors
were those with strong immune systems sure enough, but who wants to lose
half their children along the way?

If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.

MM

Not quite that far back, but the 50's and asbestos?

I was contacted a few months back from a chap in Australia, "Mike do you
remember me? John Anderson? We were Apprentices together at J S Whites at
Cowes. I want someone to verify that I was there as I have contracted
Asbestosis and my Solicitors are making a claim"

I had to reawaken some long gone to sleep brain cells and when he emailed me
a couple of photos, I do remember him. He worked in a different squad to me,
but I could verify that he was who he said he was and consequently assisted
his Solicitors to make a claim.

That was only 50 years ago. Look at the precautions we have now, but I ask
the question, "Are we over the top with our precautions?"

Saw a picture of a 'PC' youngster playing Conkers. Gloves, goggles, hard
hat, protective clothing, steel toe capped boots :-(((((

Mike

In article , MM
writes

Snipped

I absolutely agree with this. Today's townie kids' immune systems are
shot to pieces because the kids never get their peck of dirt while
growing up. When do you see kids playing outside in the fields
nowadays? Everyone is scared of 'stranger danger'. If they do go out
of doors away from the telly or computer game, they just ride their
bikes around. Where's the cowboys and injuns, the lying on the ground
playing fives, that kind of thing? Kids (and adults) have little
contact with the natural world, then suddenly, panic, as 'bird flu'
strikes.

Where do you live then! mine are out all the time as are the other kids
around here, we have to drag them in to eat and sleep. They make dens
over the fields, make tree houses, use the old pillbox as a clubhouse..
One minute you talk about townie kids and the next you're talking about
fields, the two don't often go together and I suggest you look around
kids are still outside til all hours, everybody is *not* afraid of
stranger danger.

If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.

yeah, the good old days huh! and I don't agree with someone else's pet
crapping in my garden, just for the record I have no objection to wild
animal crap just inconsiderate pet owners

--
David

In article , MM
writes

Snipped

I absolutely agree with this. Today's townie kids' immune systems are
shot to pieces because the kids never get their peck of dirt while
growing up. When do you see kids playing outside in the fields
nowadays?

What fields? A side effect of the current policy of building on
'brownfield' sites is that informal play spaces in towns are scarce. OK,
there are well manicured parks - but few and far between. For the late
primary school age when independent outdoor play is important, parks are
often too far away, across too many main roads, and where is the
wilderness for imaginative play?

Everyone is scared of 'stranger danger'.

As a mother, what was more in my mind was the danger from main roads.
The volume of traffic has more than doubled since I was a kid.

If they do go out
of doors away from the telly or computer game, they just ride their
bikes around. Where's the cowboys and injuns, the lying on the ground
playing fives, that kind of thing? Kids (and adults) have little
contact with the natural world, then suddenly, panic, as 'bird flu'
strikes.

I'm not sure any amount of contact with the natural world would make you
immune to bird flu...


--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"MM" wrote in message
...


I absolutely agree with this. Today's townie kids' immune systems are
shot to pieces because the kids never get their peck of dirt while
growing up. When do you see kids playing outside in the fields
nowadays? Everyone is scared of 'stranger danger'. If they do go out
of doors away from the telly or computer game, they just ride their
bikes around. Where's the cowboys and injuns, the lying on the ground
playing fives, that kind of thing? Kids (and adults) have little
contact with the natural world, then suddenly, panic, as 'bird flu'
strikes.

If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.

MM

The hardy ones who had survived diphtheria, scarlet fever, whooping cough,
polio, measles, smallpox, cholera and typhoid, that is!

Duncan

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:44:51 +0100, JK wrote:


If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.



Er...infant mortality in Victorian London was very high. The survivors
were those with strong immune systems sure enough, but who wants to lose
half their children along the way?

Why on earth not? Teaches the survivors the value of life!

MM

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:06:59 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from MM contains these words:


If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.

Victorian Londoners' soujourn was also pitifully brief. IIRC, average
life expectancy was around 40. This was partly due to the extremely high
rate of death among children. It's ludicrous to suggest Victorian
Londoners enjoyed a higher standard of health or better survival rates.
You have only to look at poor countries' Victorian-London levels of
life-expectancy in adults and high infant death rate, to see that people
there have not acquired the hardiness you claim used to exist here.

It's true that the incidence of allergies, implying over-reacting
immune systems, has risen sharply in the last 50 years, but mistaken to
blame that on higher standards of hygeine by ultra- fussy parents.
It's just as likely that modern immune-systems are weakened by the
overload of chemicals, radiation etc we are exposed to in every aspect
of western life.

And anti-bacterial washing-up liquid. Well, those knives and forks
could harbour DANGEROUS GERMS!!!!

MM

In message ,
writes
In article , MM
writes

Snipped

I absolutely agree with this. Today's townie kids' immune systems are
shot to pieces because the kids never get their peck of dirt while
growing up. When do you see kids playing outside in the fields
nowadays? Everyone is scared of 'stranger danger'. If they do go out
of doors away from the telly or computer game, they just ride their
bikes around. Where's the cowboys and injuns, the lying on the ground
playing fives, that kind of thing? Kids (and adults) have little
contact with the natural world, then suddenly, panic, as 'bird flu'
strikes.

Where do you live then! mine are out all the time as are the other kids
around here, we have to drag them in to eat and sleep. They make dens
over the fields, make tree houses, use the old pillbox as a clubhouse..
One minute you talk about townie kids and the next you're talking about
fields, the two don't often go together and I suggest you look around
kids are still outside til all hours, everybody is *not* afraid of
stranger danger.

If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.

yeah, the good old days huh! and I don't agree with someone else's pet
crapping in my garden, just for the record I have no objection to wild
animal crap just inconsiderate pet owners

Very inconsiderate of pet owners to crap in your garden.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:18:16 +0100, Kay
wrote:


In article , MM
writes

Snipped

I absolutely agree with this. Today's townie kids' immune systems are
shot to pieces because the kids never get their peck of dirt while
growing up. When do you see kids playing outside in the fields
nowadays?

What fields? A side effect of the current policy of building on
'brownfield' sites is that informal play spaces in towns are scarce. OK,
there are well manicured parks - but few and far between. For the late
primary school age when independent outdoor play is important, parks are
often too far away, across too many main roads, and where is the
wilderness for imaginative play?

Everyone is scared of 'stranger danger'.

As a mother, what was more in my mind was the danger from main roads.
The volume of traffic has more than doubled since I was a kid.

That, too.


If they do go out
of doors away from the telly or computer game, they just ride their
bikes around. Where's the cowboys and injuns, the lying on the ground
playing fives, that kind of thing? Kids (and adults) have little
contact with the natural world, then suddenly, panic, as 'bird flu'
strikes.

I'm not sure any amount of contact with the natural world would make you
immune to bird flu...

But some/many will survive the pandemic if/when it arrives. People
always do. That's how we are here. Even the 1918 pandemic only killed
around 20 million people, which in a total world population of 1.8
billion at the time wasn't that significant. It couldn't have been,
since we are now at around 6 billion in less than a hundred years.
Therefore, some people's immune systems are far better at fighting off
infection than others, and I reckon a lot of the survivors have by
accident or design stressed their immune systems from a very early age
so that they were prepared when the biggie occurred.

MM

In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote:

It's true that the incidence of allergies, implying over-reacting
immune systems, has risen sharply in the last 50 years, but mistaken to
blame that on higher standards of hygeine by ultra- fussy parents.
It's just as likely that modern immune-systems are weakened by the
overload of chemicals, radiation etc we are exposed to in every aspect
of western life.

It's not just the allergies but the auto-immune diseases. And there
is pretty good evidence that excessive fussiness is one of the causes.
What isn't clear is whether it is 10% or 90%, and whether it is a
single factor or interacts with others. Deducing causes from incidence
data is notoriously hard, as can be seen by the melanoma fiasco[*].

For example, it is quite possible to demonstrate that the increase
in allergies, auto-immune diseases and melanoma are all caused by
the increase in the UK cat population. Or, for that matter,
television or the use of MSG. At least if you regard the statistical
standards of Whitehall as being adequate for drawing conclusions.
[*] Yes, fiasco. There is increasing evidence that my gut feelings
of a decade and more back were right, and a large proportion of the
increase is due to the campaign against it leading people into practices
that were 'approved' but more dangerous than many discouraged ones.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , hugh
] writes
In message ,
writes

snipped

yeah, the good old days huh! and I don't agree with someone else's pet
crapping in my garden, just for the record I have no objection to wild
animal crap just inconsiderate pet owners

Very inconsiderate of pet owners to crap in your garden.

Now that does conjure up an image!
--
David

In article ,
MM wrote:

If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.

Speak for yerself, mate!

I have had a rougher upbringing (in that, and some other, senses) than
most of the inhabitants of Victorian London. I have slept in mud huts
floored with bat dung as a child, drunk water from the Benue and Nile
rivers, and had a few other adventures on the way. All right, I bear
the physical evidence ....

However, even those who haven't had my, er, privileges would generally
be able to take the conditions. The modern lifestyle may be soft in
many respects, but the race (even that of the middle classes in the
south east) hasn't had time to degenerate all that far. Some would
succumb, but not all that many.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from MM contains these words:


If modern humans were transported briefly back to Victorian London,
their sojourn would indeed be brief as many would succumb straightaway
to the ordinary everyday noxious substances that hardy workers of the
day had got used to from birth.

Victorian Londoners' soujourn was also pitifully brief. IIRC, average
life expectancy was around 40. This was partly due to the extremely high
rate of death among children. It's ludicrous to suggest Victorian
Londoners enjoyed a higher standard of health or better survival rates.
You have only to look at poor countries' Victorian-London levels of
life-expectancy in adults and high infant death rate, to see that people
there have not acquired the hardiness you claim used to exist here.

It's true that the incidence of allergies, implying over-reacting
immune systems, has risen sharply in the last 50 years, but mistaken to
blame that on higher standards of hygeine by ultra- fussy parents.
It's just as likely that modern immune-systems are weakened by the
overload of chemicals, radiation etc we are exposed to in every aspect
of western life.
I wasn't making an implication but giving anecdotal evidence as supplied by
scientists who have indeed found that children growing up on ultra clean
homes seem to have more breathing, sinus and glue ear type problems.