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Old 24-03-2007, 06:26 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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eggs wrote:
In article ,

I think I like the idea of a fruiting plant and I love
Mulberries (hadn't even thought of that!). Off to google mulberry trees
...

eggs.


And you'll get to be the local silk worm food supplier

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Old 24-03-2007, 06:36 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"HC" wrote in message
...
G'day Amanda

I have to agree with Len when he said...sometimes I wonder how we made
it as kids hey??


Sorry Bronwyn - this touches a nerve with me as its the argument my father
uses when asking *why* my kids have to be strapped in to car seats when
"when you were little we just put you on a cushion so what's wrong with
that??"
Kids did die from accidents and poisonings in the "olden days" too you know



Everything (and I mean EVERYthing) seems to require some official
statement these days. What has happened to 'teaching' kids about plants,


Ummm - well as I said *we do* teach our kids about plants.
BUT what about the child who doesn't fit the rules and who isn't so easy to
teach?
What about K's autistic classmate who sometimes can't discern the difference
between the plastic wrapping and his sandwich? .. (and yes, the teacher are
onto him straight away, but there are 22 kids for them to monitor at once).
I'd really hate it if he decided the black berries on the cestrum poking
through the back fence looked particularly delectable while the teacher and
the aide were dealing with any of the other 21 kids (who are not above
wetting their duds, scraping their knee, hitting each other etc).


snip

Teach them the right and wrong way to handle plants and I'm sure this is
more likely to get them interested in gardening, than sitting around
with a long list of plant names that they can't identify.


Sorry - I'm not suggesting that the kids sit around with long lists of
plants.... and they *are* growing things like beans and sweat peas and
strawberries.
BUT - in order to sign the official document stating that there are no
poisonois plants on the place, *I* need that long list of plants so that I
know what the centre needs to ensure *isn't* on the premises. Things like
not surrounding the centre with an oleander hedge and soforth....

I also think you forget just how much information a 3 yo kid can remember /
take in. For exaple, they do have taste tests on the tomatoes,
strawberries and beans that they grow (both at kindy and at home) .... but
personally, I wouldn't like to be responsible for a kid that got confused
and sampled the cestrum as well.

They aren't all perfect (nor are their parents ... or grandparents for that
matter) and sometimes 3 yo kids don't do exactly what they are told to do
.... I know I didn't ... and I actually pity the 3yo that *always* does as
they are told (what a serious lack of imagination.

My own kids are pretty good about what grows in the garden - they sample
things they know they are allowed to eat, and don't tend to eat the other
stuff.
But I personally wouldn't like to be responsible for somebody else's kid in
a a garden with poisonous plants everywhere. ...

Amanda



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Old 24-03-2007, 06:42 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"eggs" wrote in message
...
In article ,

Thanks! We only want shade in the summer as we have a high wall at the
back that shades us for much of the day in the winter, so one of these
sounds good. I think I like the idea of a fruiting plant and I love
Mulberries (hadn't even thought of that!). Off to google mulberry trees


Well - if you deign to drop in here next time your in Qld, I can give you
some cuttings of *the* best mulberry tree in Queensland (well actually it'll
be a cutting off a plant grown from a cutting off a plant grown from a
cutting of *the* best mulberry tree in Qld ... which was a cutting from a
bloody good mulberry tree in Footscray, Vic).

Amanda


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Old 24-03-2007, 06:46 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
eggs wrote:

My kids have a variety of plants and trees (and related insects,
spiders, snails, etc) in their yard and we have never had a problem with
it, but I would certainly never purposefully plant something poisonous
in my yard. My kids might be safe, but I couldn't be sure visiting kids
would know enough to avoid dangerous plants.


I know for a fact that there are daffodil bulbs in my garden, and rhubarb.

My
MIL kept pointing out that the Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow plant in my

front
yard was poisonous until I told her that as I have no front fence, the

kids
are unlikely to be out in the front yard without supervision.


Same here - there's not a particularly large number of plants that could do
much more than give you a belly ache in our garden, but my kids know about
the plants in our garden ...and other *little* kids don't tend to visit
without their mothers.

There are a
surprising number of plants with poisonous components.


and there's the problem for the C&K. Techincally the sweet peas and the
cherry tomatoes could cause problems.

IMHO children either put *everything* in their mouths or nothing. While I
wouldn't intentionally put an oleander hedge around the day care, one

assumes
that the kids are supervised outside and that they're not likely to eat

much
of anything before being spotted. Choking is probably a more likely

hazard
than poisoning anyway.


True - so I'm hoping its just the particularly nasty plants that they have
to remove (and fair enough I say) ... maybe I can add murraya to the list on
the sly so they get rid of that &^*% stuff as well

BUT - I don't have to tell you about what happens when a legal form to
certify there's no poisonous plants gets involved in the equation.

Amanda


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Old 24-03-2007, 07:27 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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In article ,
"FlowerGirl" wrote:

"eggs" wrote in message
...
In article ,

Thanks! We only want shade in the summer as we have a high wall at the
back that shades us for much of the day in the winter, so one of these
sounds good. I think I like the idea of a fruiting plant and I love
Mulberries (hadn't even thought of that!). Off to google mulberry trees


Well - if you deign to drop in here next time your in Qld, I can give you
some cuttings of *the* best mulberry tree in Queensland (well actually it'll
be a cutting off a plant grown from a cutting off a plant grown from a
cutting of *the* best mulberry tree in Qld ... which was a cutting from a
bloody good mulberry tree in Footscray, Vic).

Amanda


How far north of the border are you?

eggs.


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Old 24-03-2007, 08:51 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"len garden" wrote in message
...
g'day chris,

educatiuon of kids pirmarily is the responsibility of parents, it is
up to the parent to ascertain any risk to their child before they lob
them into someone elses care, it's all about parents being
responsible.


g'day len..

i think if an organisation is going to hang their shingle out and charge
their fee to look after kids, then it is fair enough to expect that the
organisation is going to abide by the rules re any dangerous items.

different matter if you are at a park, or in a florist or something.

and yes, amanda is in a difficult position. i dont envy her!

chris


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Old 24-03-2007, 12:59 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

Ms Leebee wrote:
FlowerGirl wrote:
"HC" wrote in message
...
G'day Amanda

I have to agree with Len when he said...sometimes I wonder how we
made it as kids hey??

Sorry Bronwyn - this touches a nerve with me as its the argument my
father uses when asking *why* my kids have to be strapped in to car
seats when "when you were little we just put you on a cushion so
what's wrong with that??"
Kids did die from accidents and poisonings in the "olden days" too
you know

Everything (and I mean EVERYthing) seems to require some official
statement these days. What has happened to 'teaching' kids about
plants,

Ummm - well as I said *we do* teach our kids about plants.
BUT what about the child who doesn't fit the rules and who isn't so
easy to teach?
What about K's autistic classmate who sometimes can't discern the
difference between the plastic wrapping and his sandwich? .. (and
yes, the teacher are onto him straight away, but there are 22 kids
for them to monitor at once). I'd really hate it if he decided the
black berries on the cestrum poking through the back fence looked
particularly delectable while the teacher and the aide were dealing
with any of the other 21 kids (who are not above wetting their duds,
scraping their knee, hitting each other etc).


snip

Teach them the right and wrong way to handle plants and I'm sure
this is more likely to get them interested in gardening, than
sitting around with a long list of plant names that they can't
identify.

Sorry - I'm not suggesting that the kids sit around with long lists of
plants.... and they *are* growing things like beans and sweat peas and
strawberries.
BUT - in order to sign the official document stating that there are no
poisonois plants on the place, *I* need that long list of plants so
that I know what the centre needs to ensure *isn't* on the premises.
Things like not surrounding the centre with an oleander hedge and
soforth....

I also think you forget just how much information a 3 yo kid can
remember / take in. For exaple, they do have taste tests on the
tomatoes, strawberries and beans that they grow (both at kindy and at
home) .... but personally, I wouldn't like to be responsible for a
kid that got confused and sampled the cestrum as well.

They aren't all perfect (nor are their parents ... or grandparents
for that matter) and sometimes 3 yo kids don't do exactly what they
are told to do ... I know I didn't ... and I actually pity the 3yo
that *always* does as they are told (what a serious lack of
imagination.

My own kids are pretty good about what grows in the garden - they
sample things they know they are allowed to eat, and don't tend to
eat the other stuff.
But I personally wouldn't like to be responsible for somebody else's
kid in a a garden with poisonous plants everywhere. ...

Amanda


Good post, Amanda.

OK allready, but who's gonna protect us from those kids that
eat ANYTHING. Those goats!

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Old 24-03-2007, 01:49 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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Default X-post: Poisonous plants and childcare

In article ,
eggs wrote:

Thanks! We only want shade in the summer as we have a high wall at the
back that shades us for much of the day in the winter, so one of these
sounds good. I think I like the idea of a fruiting plant and I love
Mulberries (hadn't even thought of that!). Off to google mulberry trees


Er, you do have somewhere else to hang your washing, I hope?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue
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Old 24-03-2007, 08:26 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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g'day amanda,

i understand that but if you have oleander there i would strongly
recommend to remove it, but having said that as far as i am aware
there are no recorded severe illnesses or death from someone consuming
oleander sap that is the toxic bit.

maybe some of the plants of concern could be fenced so the kids can't
get to them?

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 03:57:26 GMT, "FlowerGirl"
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/
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Old 24-03-2007, 08:33 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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yes i understand that eggs,

but you still can't make it the total respoinsibility of the rest of
society to pick up where bad parents leave off, need to get back to
the root cause or we are always going to have problems.

that is why we end up with adolescents who have no respect for
themselves their parents and even less for the society around them,
the end result a 79 year old man doing his morning walk gets punched
by 4 boys for no reason.

so i stick with what i say if a child suffers then the parents should
be bought to task not the people that the parents leave their child
with.

the longer we cover up bad parenting then i guess the longer problems
will go on, an do gooders don't see the later problems they cause in
society so we need better values.

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:02:40 +1100, eggs
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/


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Old 24-03-2007, 11:57 PM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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but you still can't make it the total respoinsibility of the rest of
society to pick up where bad parents leave off, need to get back to
the root cause or we are always going to have problems.


I think wanting a safe environment with the people you pay to leave your
kids with is a far cry from anything you are talking about IMO. Kids don't
go a beat people up because they had poisonous plants removed from their DCC
when they were younger

Even if your kids know not to eat plants, toddlers tend to have a lack of
judgment at the best of times and may still eat a plant. My eldest (nearly
3) wouldn't eat plants, well I Highly doubt it. But my youngest (nearly 1)
will shove anything in his mouth no matter how many times we say no. By
putting things in their mouth they are exploring the world. I doubt you can
hinder a instinct like that until they just grow out of it.

--
Leanne
----------------------
Don't demand respect as a parent.
Demand civility and insist on honesty.
Respect is something you must earn.


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Old 25-03-2007, 04:52 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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In article ,
Chookie wrote:

In article ,
eggs wrote:

Thanks! We only want shade in the summer as we have a high wall at the
back that shades us for much of the day in the winter, so one of these
sounds good. I think I like the idea of a fruiting plant and I love
Mulberries (hadn't even thought of that!). Off to google mulberry trees


Er, you do have somewhere else to hang your washing, I hope?


We use a tragic system of those little "clotheslines" they sell at the
supermarket, strung from fence to tree and move them around with the
seasons due to shadowing from nearby buildings. DS eventually cuts them
down to use the string for one of his projects and I have to buy another
one. In the winter we have to use a dryer as there isn't a long enough
period of sunlight to get the clothes dry in one day (shade from about
11am).

eggs.
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Old 25-03-2007, 06:16 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"eggs" wrote in message news:seggleto-
How far north of the border are you?

Bris-Vegas ... by the bay and ~ 15 minutes drive from the Gateway Bridge and
with very simple directions to get here.

Kettles on....(or perhaps I should say the bubbly is chillin)
A



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Old 25-03-2007, 06:26 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
...
FlowerGirl wrote:
Note: X-posted to aus.family and aus.gardens.

... so our C&K centre has to sign a doc saying that there are no
poisonous plants on the premises .. and as a botanist (with a very
different area of specialty) they've turned to me for guidance.

Well.
From what I understand, we just have to sign off that there are no
poisonous plants on the place....the problem is that there doesn't
seem to be an official list of plants that we can sign off against,
..... and pretty much any plant could kill you if you eat the wrong
bit, don't prepare it properly or you just eat enough of it.


snip

Interesting, on many levels.

I hope you are not personally held accountable if you sign off and some

kid
eats a weed grown from bird poop
( I really can't see how they can monitor this - ESP. without a list to
tick off, and as you say ... everything in moderation .. heh

I remember that the C&K have parents sign some sort of legal thingy saying
that they can't sue members of the P&C.... and as I'm not actually signing
the form, just pointing out what plants are iffy.

Without a list, how does the non-Botanist/average Jane know her poison

from
her delicious treat ?


The web site alley mentioned has a good list of the really bad ones which
are probably the only real dangers. I have an old version of the booklet
which is quite informative too.
Duranta (sheena's gold) is a plant that heaps of people use as hedges here
.... I hate the thing anyway as its a *weed* but the berries are quite
poisonous.
I think kidsafe also have information on this which is useful.

Amanda



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Old 25-03-2007, 06:47 AM posted to aus.family,aus.gardens
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"len garden" wrote in message
...
g'day amanda,

hi Len

i understand that but if you have oleander there i would strongly
recommend to remove it, but having said that as far as i am aware
there are no recorded severe illnesses or death from someone consuming
oleander sap that is the toxic bit.


Yes - not so common anymore in Australia, but there are recorded illnesses
and deaths from not just the sap but also the seeds of both the common and
the yellow oleander (different genus). According to the Toxic Exposure
Surveillance System (TESS) in 2002 there were 847 known human poisonings in
the United States related to Oleander (Watson 2003) ... rare enough but
still recorded.


maybe some of the plants of concern could be fenced so the kids can't
get to them?


Ah now see the fence would cost too much money for a C&K who are non-profit.
I do agree that we need to teach kids about the wonders of plants ... so why
not use plants that aren't so likely to cause serious illness.

On another tack I'm reminded of a story about my dear FIL ... on a visit to
Brisbane, he was concerned about all the oleander planted between the north
and south-bound lanes of the Gateway Motorway. DH pointed out that any kid
that managed to negotiate 2 lanes of 100km/hr traffic to get to them would
hopefully also be lucky enough not to start eating the hedges!

Amanda




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