Yep, that sounds about right. A squirle broke the apex
off my favorite Acer this spring while useing it as a
launching pad to get to our bird feeder. Guess I
should be happy they have not tried to eat any of my
trees yet. I know to keep dogs from chewing on your
furniture they sugest useing red pepper. Wonder if
that would work on squirles too.

Louis

--- Doonemd wrote:
Well, as usual, the squirrels are wreaking havoc
with my bonsai again. Last
year I discovered that squirrels find hornbeam and
maple buds quite
delicious!-no leaf pruning necessary that year
This year I have learned that
those evil squirels also find Chinese elm quite
tasty but they apparently have
a laxative effect on the squirrel as it left quite a
few "presents" on my
bonsai bench! I have resorted to bribing the evil
squirrels with sunflower
seeds and corn cobs to keep them away from my trees.
I suppose I shall have
agreat crop of sunflowers as accent plants this
year....)
Lorna


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__________________________________________________
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We'll see if English grey squirrels share the US's cousin's
tastes then
- or how far away they can smell it. I see squirrels running
about
regularly in the road I live in: they live in the trees in a
further
education establishment about 200 yards from home

snip

Hmmm. I though the "English" gray squirrels were American gray
squirrels that some damned fool imported over there and that they
were running off your prettier and nicer red squirrels.

Am I wrong?

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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In message 004401c2f3e2$d2c24260$21102cc7@pavilion, Jim Lewis
writes

We'll see if English grey squirrels share the US's cousin's
tastes then
- or how far away they can smell it. I see squirrels running
about
regularly in the road I live in: they live in the trees in a
further
education establishment about 200 yards from home

snip

Hmmm. I though the "English" gray squirrels were American gray

Grins in answer. And there was I looking out for them: after all they
are 'tree rats with good PR'. Don't know anyone with a good word for
'em though.

Red squirrels are extinct in all but the Isle of Wight and somewhere in
Scotland. I don't remember seeing them even as a child, but then its
only very recently that one would see them living in a town and tame
enough to come and steal one's bird food. (Never mind the bonsai!)

Sincerely, Chris
--
Chris McMillan
reply to:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/

We have quite a few black squirrels in my area of Ohio. I think they
were imported from ?? and brought to the Kent State University campus.
They have since spread to surrounding communities. They're a bit smaller
than the common gray squirrel but still a big pain in the aster. They're
constantly digging in my pots, uprooting trees and eating roots and
bark. Are they common to other areas?

btw The gray squirrels and the black squirrels don't get along too well.
hmmmm

Art

I haven't been following this thread but it's my understanding that the
black eastern squirrel is just a grey squirrel in a different color
phase..... the farther south one goes the less likely the black color phase
is to occur... I'm not certain if that's recessive gene stuff or what.

There are also small clans of pure white eastern squirrels....

David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email:


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf
Of akrummel
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:28 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] evil squirrels!


We have quite a few black squirrels in my area of Ohio. I think they
were imported from ?? and brought to the Kent State University campus.
They have since spread to surrounding communities. They're a bit smaller
than the common gray squirrel but still a big pain in the aster. They're
constantly digging in my pots, uprooting trees and eating roots and
bark. Are they common to other areas?

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I haven't been following this thread but it's my understanding
that the
black eastern squirrel is just a grey squirrel in a different
color
phase..... the farther south one goes the less likely the black
color phase
is to occur... I'm not certain if that's recessive gene stuff
or what.


Yes. That's so. The grays don't like the black squirrels only
because they're "different." So, black ones tend to mate with
black ones, which produces -- black ones (mostly).
Tempermentally, they're the same. (Some folks a while ago tried
to relate the black squirrel coats in the north to the soot
emitted by factory stacks; dark-colored squirrels had better
survival potentials (from hawks and owls, etc) where the tree
trunks were also black from the soot. This works with some
moths, but moth generations tend to occur more rapidly than
squirrels (barely!), so I don't know.)

There are also small clans of pure white eastern squirrels....

Yes. A neighbor has a batch of white squirrels in his yard
(several acres of pines, oaks and pecans). They've been there
for 30 years. There also are piebald squirrels, so his grays
don't seem to have any miscegenation biases.

I have no idea what the evolutionary value of the white squirrel
might be, but since there never are more than a few on his place
and there are gazillions of grays, it probably isn't significant.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Who is VERY
happy to see a recent increase in population of the FOX squirrel
locally!

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
Subject: [IBC] evil squirrels!


I haven't been following this thread but it's my understanding
that the
black eastern squirrel is just a grey squirrel in a different
color
phase..... the farther south one goes the less likely the black
color phase
is to occur... I'm not certain if that's recessive gene stuff
or what.


Yes. That's so.
Jim Lewis

No, As Art Krummel stated in a post ( Art lives near me and is in our
local club) OUR black squirrels come from Kent State University directly
about 20 minutes north of me and 10 minutes north of Art). They were
brought here by a research prof. in the late 40's/early 50's from
frica( If I remember the folk lore correct) I believe. and they are slowly
moving their range outward. I rarely see them at my neighborhood but there
are a few. The KSU campus is filled with them. They are a pretty dark
black.
Regards,
Dale Cochoy

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More info on black squirrels for the interested. Others should hit
DELETE right now

Bonsai Bonsai Bonsai!

Anita

Jim - the black or melanistic phase of the eastern grey squirrel is
the result of a genetic mutation, yes, but probably Dominant rather
than recessive. In domestic mice, chickens, and a tropical bird (the
bananaquit), the melanistic phase has been shown to be due to a
dominant mutation in the gene for melanocortin-1 receptor (MC1R), a
regulator of melanin synthesis (see Curr Biol 2001 Apr
17;11(8):550-7). I don't think anyone has done the squirrels yet, or
at least it's not published.

The larger numbers of black phase squirrels in the North (naturally
occuring, not including "imports" like KSU's) seem to be related to a
warmth-retaining advantage in cold climes.

"Studies have shown that black animals have 18% lower heat loss in
temperatures below -10 degrees Celcius, along wth a 20% lower basal
metabolic rate, and a nonshivering thermogenesis capacity 11% higher
than grey morphs."
(from http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.ed...._carolinensis$narrative.html)

Dale - "folklore" not withstanding, the KSU black squirrels were
brought down in 1961 from Canada (where they're relatively common) in
a well-documented incident. Not from Africa, sorry, as far as anyone
knows. Same species as the grey, though we may be seeing the
beginnings of the evolution of a new species here, since they don't
interbreed much with the greys. wait a few (human) generations and see...

from the KSU website:
"Ten rare black squirrels were imported from Canada in February 1961
by Larry Woodell, superintendent of grounds, and M. W. Staples, a
retired executive of
the Davey Tree Expert Company. When first released, the large,
black-spiked squirrels were frequently mistaken for skunks. Today they
own the campus. The
Black Squirrel Festival started in 1981 as a day-long event held on
the Student Center Plaza to introduce new students to campus and
community organizations."

So *your* black squirrels are no different from, say, the population
on the NIH campus in Washington DC. Say, what is it about black
squirrels and academia anyway? Are we just less likely to shoot the
tree-rats, or what?

dalecochoy wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
Subject: [IBC] evil squirrels!

I haven't been following this thread but it's my understanding
that the
black eastern squirrel is just a grey squirrel in a different
color
phase..... the farther south one goes the less likely the black
color phase
is to occur... I'm not certain if that's recessive gene stuff
or what.


Yes. That's so.
Jim Lewis

No, As Art Krummel stated in a post ( Art lives near me and is in our
local club) OUR black squirrels come from Kent State University directly
about 20 minutes north of me and 10 minutes north of Art). They were
brought here by a research prof. in the late 40's/early 50's from
frica( If I remember the folk lore correct) I believe. and they are slowly
moving their range outward. I rarely see them at my neighborhood but there
are a few. The KSU campus is filled with them. They are a pretty dark
black.
Regards,
Dale Cochoyy

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
Subject: [IBC] evil squirrels!


I haven't been following this thread but it's my
understanding
that the
black eastern squirrel is just a grey squirrel in a
different
color
phase..... the farther south one goes the less likely the
black
color phase
is to occur... I'm not certain if that's recessive gene
stuff
or what.


Yes. That's so.
Jim Lewis

No, As Art Krummel stated in a post ( Art lives near me and is
in our
local club) OUR black squirrels come from Kent State University
directly
about 20 minutes north of me and 10 minutes north of Art).
They were
brought here by a research prof. in the late 40's/early 50's
from
frica( If I remember the folk lore correct)

You said it right, Dale. This is 100% folklore. The black
squirrels are gray squirrels -- just like the white squirrels.
There are colonies of black squirrels scattered here and there
all though the area above the Mason Dixon line.

In fact, I can find no reference to squirrels in Africa at all --
tho they may have some over there somewhere.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL -

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Thanks Jim and Anita ( for reasearching this)
I obviously heard my folklore incorrect.
Now when I drive through Kent I will have a renewed interest in squirrels!
Jim, I see we've found your "forte".
Dale
P.S. Is Nina tearing her hair out yet?? :)


You said it right, Dale. This is 100% folklore. The black
squirrels are gray squirrels -- just like the white squirrels.
There are colonies of black squirrels scattered here and there
all though the area above the Mason Dixon line.

In fact, I can find no reference to squirrels in Africa at all --
tho they may have some over there somewhere.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL -

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Thank you Anita for researching this. I KNEW someone would.
BTW, Are you doing this at work?? :)
I was losing sleep over it!
Now I have the "Rest of the story" on KSU Black Squirrels. Here I thought
we were special! Darn!

Oh well, now I can sleep tonight without the double-dose of NIQUIL!
Thanks,
Dale


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anita Hawkins"
Subject: [IBC] evil squirrels!
Dale - "folklore" not withstanding, the KSU black squirrels were
brought down in 1961 from Canada (where they're relatively common) in
a well-documented incident. Not from Africa, sorry, as far as anyone
knows. Same species as the grey, though we may be seeing the
beginnings of the evolution of a new species here, since they don't
interbreed much with the greys. wait a few (human) generations and see...

from the KSU website:
"Ten rare black squirrels were imported from Canada in February 1961
by Larry Woodell, superintendent of grounds, and M. W. Staples, a
retired executive of
the Davey Tree Expert Company. When first released, the large,
black-spiked squirrels were frequently mistaken for skunks. Today they
own the campus. The
Black Squirrel Festival started in 1981 as a day-long event held on
the Student Center Plaza to introduce new students to campus and
community organizations."

So *your* black squirrels are no different from, say, the population
on the NIH campus in Washington DC. Say, what is it about black
squirrels and academia anyway?

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In message 00a701c2f53b$6baef960$0430fea9@dalespc, dalecochoy
writes
Oh well, now I can sleep tonight without the double-dose of NIQUIL!

While I am now lying awake wondering who sent that grey squirrel into my
garden!!!!!!! We've lived in this actual house 17 and a half years (and
previously in another house nearby) for a total of 30 years, and have
NEVER seen a squirrel this close to the house. In fact it was my
husband who yelled up that he could see it at the end of the garden,
about 100 ft from the house. (He didn't know about squirrels and
bonsai), and this brought 19 year old Hazel to the window as happy as a
child at seeing it.

Can you imagine your average 21st century teenager excited at seeing a
squirrel? Must be because although we named her Hazel as in the 'Chief
Rabbit' of Richard Adams 'Watership Down' (sad, aren't we!), she was
brought up on and her nickname is 'Nutkin' for Beatrix Potter's Squirrel
Nutkin. So I've had to tell her that squirrels are bad news to bonsai:
we're hoping that because its only a few feet from the house Mr. and
Mrs. Nutkin will keep their distance.

So : what precautions do you take against the tree rats??

Sincerely, Chris
--
Chris McMillan
reply to:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/

Can you imagine your average 21st century teenager excited at
seeing a
squirrel? Must be because although we named her Hazel as in
the 'Chief
Rabbit' of Richard Adams 'Watership Down' (sad, aren't we!),
she was
brought up on and her nickname is 'Nutkin' for Beatrix Potter's
Squirrel
Nutkin. So I've had to tell her that squirrels are bad news to
bonsai:
we're hoping that because its only a few feet from the house
Mr. and
Mrs. Nutkin will keep their distance.

So : what precautions do you take against the tree rats??


Yes. Unfortunately. Today, most of the world seems to be
totally divorced from nature.

However, ONE squirrel is not a threat to bonsai. Even two or
three aren't. In actual fact, squirrels are a nuisance, but will
seldom do severe damage to a bonsai -- given anything else in the
neighborhood to eat.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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If they will not breed with the grey squirrels, they are a seperate species. For
speciation to occur, it does not have to be that they can not mate, the fact that
they will not breed is just as valid.

Geographic isolation is as much an accepted qualification for speciation as genetic
differences. They are isolated, so the population is drifting away from what it
originally came from.

dalecochoy wrote:

Thank you Anita for researching this. I KNEW someone would.
BTW, Are you doing this at work?? :)
I was losing sleep over it!
Now I have the "Rest of the story" on KSU Black Squirrels. Here I thought
we were special! Darn!

Oh well, now I can sleep tonight without the double-dose of NIQUIL!
Thanks,
Dale

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anita Hawkins"
Subject: [IBC] evil squirrels!
Dale - "folklore" not withstanding, the KSU black squirrels were
brought down in 1961 from Canada (where they're relatively common) in
a well-documented incident. Not from Africa, sorry, as far as anyone
knows. Same species as the grey, though we may be seeing the
beginnings of the evolution of a new species here, since they don't
interbreed much with the greys. wait a few (human) generations and see...

from the KSU website:
"Ten rare black squirrels were imported from Canada in February 1961
by Larry Woodell, superintendent of grounds, and M. W. Staples, a
retired executive of
the Davey Tree Expert Company. When first released, the large,
black-spiked squirrels were frequently mistaken for skunks. Today they
own the campus. The
Black Squirrel Festival started in 1981 as a day-long event held on
the Student Center Plaza to introduce new students to campus and
community organizations."

So *your* black squirrels are no different from, say, the population
on the NIH campus in Washington DC. Say, what is it about black
squirrels and academia anyway?

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I'm pretty certain the unequivocal definition of a species is 'reproductive
isolation'.

David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email:


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf
Of Rich Conley
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 4:24 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] evil squirrels!


If they will not breed with the grey squirrels, they are a
seperate species. For
speciation to occur, it does not have to be that they can not
mate, the fact that
they will not breed is just as valid.

Geographic isolation is as much an accepted qualification for
speciation as genetic
differences. They are isolated, so the population is drifting
away from what it
originally came from.


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