The ground I am digging in is very hard on top, it takes a foot on the
shovel to get threw it. I loosen it all up and plant but then after watering
the top gets a crust on it that is very hard. What can I add to that soil to
make my veggies happier?
Thanks In Advance, Kathy

What can I add to that soil to
make my veggies happie

Compost or similsr half decayed organic matter. Mulching with grass clippings
or leaves will also give some immediate relief.

Use an ordinary dishwashing detergent like Palmolive or baby shampoo in
a hose end sprayer [you should thin it with water] so you apply about a
drop or two per sq ft.

Avoid degreasers like [Shucks- the name of the common one that begins
with a D that turn debris to concrete] or shiners like Joy; lemon is
ok.

I tested this on clay; much to our surprise, when the prof tested for
softness, it lasted the entire growing season!!
This is a lost less detergent that youd eat if you wash dishes by hand

Mulch with straw [it looks nicer chewed a bit with a lawnmower] Some
feed stores will let you collect the stuff left over from below` the
bales for free. Ask

It sounds like you have clay soil if it produces cracks so quickly. You need to add lots or organic matter, compost or manure. also liming heavily helps to make clay better but not at the same time as manuring (or growing potatoes). What about adding some grit as well

Kathy wrote:

The ground I am digging in is very hard on top, it takes a foot on the
shovel to get threw it. I loosen it all up and plant but then after watering
the top gets a crust on it that is very hard. What can I add to that soil to
make my veggies happier?
Thanks In Advance, Kathy

Sounds like what I have a lot of in my backyard (Albuquerque). I've had fairly
good luck using lots of steer manure (treated stuff @ 99¢/bag) and peatmoss. I
mix it all up together and the clay is finally breaking down so its workable.
My veggies love having softer soilG. Pickey darned things aren't they, them
veggies?


--
John S. DeBoo

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:19:41 -0400 (EDT), (lois)
wrote:

Use an ordinary dishwashing detergent like Palmolive or baby shampoo in
a hose end sprayer [you should thin it with water] so you apply about a
drop or two per sq ft.

Avoid degreasers like [Shucks- the name of the common one that begins
with a D that turn debris to concrete] or shiners like Joy; lemon is
ok.

I tested this on clay; much to our surprise, when the prof tested for
softness, it lasted the entire growing season!!
This is a lost less detergent that youd eat if you wash dishes by hand

Mulch with straw [it looks nicer chewed a bit with a lawnmower] Some
feed stores will let you collect the stuff left over from below` the
bales for free. Ask

??? I used to collect this from feed store the way you suggest, but
the damn things sprouted and had to be discarded. (Naive question: Is
there a difference between straw and hay? If it sprouted, which one
did I get?)







--
Polar

Thanks for your help Lois, I'll try the detergent bit plus John's idea of
the manure and peat moss. I want to plant spinich this week so will try all
this and see what happens. Thanks everyone for your help. Kathy
"lois" wrote in message
...
Use an ordinary dishwashing detergent like Palmolive or baby shampoo in
a hose end sprayer [you should thin it with water] so you apply about a
drop or two per sq ft.

Avoid degreasers like [Shucks- the name of the common one that begins
with a D that turn debris to concrete] or shiners like Joy; lemon is
ok.

I tested this on clay; much to our surprise, when the prof tested for
softness, it lasted the entire growing season!!
This is a lost less detergent that youd eat if you wash dishes by hand

Mulch with straw [it looks nicer chewed a bit with a lawnmower] Some
feed stores will let you collect the stuff left over from below` the
bales for free. Ask

"Polar" wrote in message
...
(Naive question: Is
there a difference between straw and hay? If it sprouted, which one
did I get?)

Yup, they're two different plants. Both can sprout, but IMHO straw is more
likely too (If I remember right). I grew up playing in straw barns (we
weren't allowed in the hay ones) and remember the trails we used to leave in
the garden that would sprout and have to be pulled out!

Charlie.



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"Charlie" writes:

Yup, they're two different plants. Both can sprout, but IMHO straw
is more likely too (If I remember right).

Nope, that's backwards. Hay almost always has seeds; good clean straw
does not. Here's my dissertation on the subject, posted to this group
last fall:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...c.pike.il. us


--
Aaron

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:58:51 GMT, "Kathy"
wrote:

The ground I am digging in is very hard on top, it takes a foot on the
shovel to get threw it. I loosen it all up and plant but then after watering
the top gets a crust on it that is very hard. What can I add to that soil to
make my veggies happier?
Thanks In Advance, Kathy


This sounds like clay to me. We have it too. It's very
difficult to work with. When it's wet, it's heavy and soggy
and stays wet a long time (sometimes with standing water
that just doesn't drain out). When it's dry, it sets up
like concrete. Ugh.

You can add sand, but huge quantities of organic matter -
compost, peat moss, grass clippings, hay, straw, dry leaves
- is probably best.

Our soil has improved noticeably during the two years we've
been here - we've mulched very heavily (at least a foot of
mulch) both years and had the mulch tilled in to the soil in
spring. We'll keep on doing this, it seems to be working.

I also hope to be able to buy a large quantity of
spent-mushroom soil this spring and use it for the 'top
layer' of raised beds.

Pat

Maybe we were only allowed to play in the Hay then! I can't remember very
well. Ah yes, because we used to help pack the hay for "bunny bags". Yah,
it was the straw we weren't allowed to play in! Sorry!

Charlie.

"Aaron Baugher" wrote in message
...
"Charlie" writes:

Yup, they're two different plants. Both can sprout, but IMHO straw
is more likely too (If I remember right).

Nope, that's backwards. Hay almost always has seeds; good clean straw
does not. Here's my dissertation on the subject, posted to this group
last fall:


http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...i.esc.pike.il.
us


--
Aaron




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Xref: news7 rec.gardens.edible:53716

Straw is light and they are the stem of oats or wheat. After they
combine the grain from the ends you are left with the shafts
Hay is heavy and is basically long grass they cut down with everything
else that grows with it.
Straw is used for bedding.
Hay is used for food.
Usually straw is the most weed free.

My email is .net not .com


Charlie wrote:

Maybe we were only allowed to play in the Hay then! I can't remember very
well. Ah yes, because we used to help pack the hay for "bunny bags". Yah,
it was the straw we weren't allowed to play in! Sorry!

Charlie.

"Aaron Baugher" wrote in message
...


"Charlie" writes:



Yup, they're two different plants. Both can sprout, but IMHO straw
is more likely too (If I remember right).


Nope, that's backwards. Hay almost always has seeds; good clean straw
does not. Here's my dissertation on the subject, posted to this group
last fall:




http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...i.esc.pike.il.
us


--
Aaron






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 01/04/03

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:25:50 -0400, Pat Meadows
wrote:

[...]

I also hope to be able to buy a large quantity of
spent-mushroom soil this spring and use it for the 'top
layer' of raised beds.

[...]

Kewl! Where could one find that? Am I assuming correctly that it
comes from mushroom growers?

--

Zone 24/8
So. Calif Coastal

Polar

Polar wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:25:50 -0400, Pat Meadows
wrote:

[...]



I also hope to be able to buy a large quantity of
spent-mushroom soil this spring and use it for the 'top
layer' of raised beds.



[...]

Kewl! Where could one find that? Am I assuming correctly that it
comes from mushroom growers?



Here is PA you can't go 5 miles without somebody selling it. What it is,
the way I take it is composted horse manure, and yes it comes from
mushroom growers. I have a local person that sells it for $7 for I am
guessing a 5yd bucket (2 scoops fill a pickup truck)
Its been raining here a lot lately and we get some mushrooms coming up
where we mulched with it. I don't trust to eat them though, since I
can't identify them.


--

Zone 24/8
So. Calif Coastal

Polar

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:13:31 GMT, Brian
wrote:


Here is PA you can't go 5 miles without somebody selling it. What it is,
the way I take it is composted horse manure, and yes it comes from
mushroom growers. I have a local person that sells it for $7 for I am
guessing a 5yd bucket (2 scoops fill a pickup truck)
Its been raining here a lot lately and we get some mushrooms coming up
where we mulched with it. I don't trust to eat them though, since I
can't identify them.


We're way up north in PA, pretty far from any mushroom
farms. So it's scarce up here, and costs a good deal more
than that.

I do have one place to buy it, at least I have so far. I
have my fingers and toes crossed that he'll have it again
this year. It really is wonderful stuff.

I won't eat the mushrooms either.

Pat