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#151
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Ironite Questions?
"Marie Dodge" wrote
"paghat" wrote In short, organic gardening is gardening on the cheap! Non-organic methods feed into themselves -- expense builds on expense. LOL!!!! Those products are cheap? Now I know you're dreaming or have stock in one of the Co's that produce this stuff! A measly 4 lb bag of Kelp Meal was $17.99, say $18.00 or almost $130 to do my gardens. And that's just for the Kelp Meal........ you must live in lala land or are very wealthy. You use the products incorrectly and you insist on buying the most expensive (organically certified). I buy kelp at a feed mill for under $1 a pound. I garden 3 times the space you do and my annual sack cost is under $100. What is it that I'm doing wrong? |
#152
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Ironite Questions?
"Jangchub" wrote in message ... For someone who has gardened since the beginning of tiime, your garden sure does suck. Of course it does. I listened to you organic fanatics instead of calling my ag agent as soon as the pests appeared instead of giving them all those weeks to reproduce. I don't use any pesticides, organic or synthetic and I have positively no problems. Because you have no spider mites and whitefly in your gardens. I had no problems before this summer either. Snip your foaming drooling blather................. SNIP! |
#153
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Ironite Questions?
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... "Marie Dodge" wrote in message You're right. Organic pesticides are indeed snake oil and just as useless. I bought the mix for summer spray. It's called Organicide. It's made mainly from fish oil and smells bad. The WF and SM don't mind the oil at all, even when drenched in it. It has no effect on them. You have clearly worked very hard for many years breeding generation after generation of hardy and spray resistant insects in your garden. You have clearly decided you know what happened on this property rather than accept the painful truth. This is the first year these pests have been seen in my and my neighbors gardens. No one sprayed anthing here other than organic bacterial worm killers on the collards. That's just too painful for you to accept isn't it? It rips your guts out and bursts you organic is magic bubble. In that situation the more simple remedies that work for the rest of us clealry won't work for you. You'll just have to put up with your problems. So the Organic Dipel dust did all this damage.... my, my! I find that simple home made oil spray using kitchen oil kills what I need it to, but then I don't want to have a resistant population of pests. If your insects can breathe through a coating of oil, then yours have clearly developed a snorkel breathing apparatus. And all from that Organic Dipel Dust on the collards..... gotcha! |
#154
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Ironite Questions?
"R M. Watkin" wrote in message ... Hi All, Sorry for the top post, Idid not want to wade through this long post. You will find that a lot of products have been taken off the market, for one reason or another. Mainly for supposed bad effects. I think you will find that it wiil get worse. I surgest you find something that you can make or mix yourself. Hope this helps you. It doesn't matter since from what I've read most of the chemical insecticides don't work any better than the organic pesticides out there. The only one I ever found to work is the Dipel dust on the collards. The pests today have good immunity to most pesticides because of all the chemical spraying by farmers and nurserymen over the years. This problem started back over 30 or 40 years ago. Crops were drenched in pesticides. I well remember the planes flying over the potato crops spraying pesticides and fungicides that made us cough and choke. Now this is the fallout. I was sure the oils would work and was really surprised when they did not. Those here who so smugly brag they're gardens aren't bothered by pests will one day go outside like I did, and see pests that they've never seen before in their gardens. Until this year we never had insect or diseases in our gardens either. |
#155
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Ironite Questions?
"Jangchub" wrote in message ... On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:11:28 -0500, "Marie Dodge" wrote: I am very familiar with Kelthane. I couldn't find anywhere online that sells it. As far as I know it does contain DDT and is persistent where sprayed. Two sprays and the mites would be gone - and stay gone! I've use it in the past. I was told it's no longer sold in my state. The horticultural sprays don't work on the SMs and WFs here. Perhaps their overuse by organic gardeners has caused tolerance. Kelthane is illegal. Are you a moron? Do you think your childish insults will gain you credibility? They just make you look like an immature idiot. Of course it's illegal in most places. It works and it works well. Insecticidal soap will kill any insect you spray it on. Gee, really. Mites aren't insects. They're spiders. Try using Google. There are few things that will kill silverleaf whitefly or the 2-spotted spidermite or farmers would be spraying insecticidal soaps on their infested crops. They'd be saving millions of dollars a year, especially on hops. Get off the organic sites and check out some of the University and Horticultural sites. Get your head out of the sand. Neem is not meant to kill mites. Read the labels. You call me a moron... "MITICIDE" is listed right on the label. Right on the front of the "Green-Light" container. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/ Security is not what I have, it's what I can do without,,, |
#156
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Ironite Questions?
"Jangchub" wrote in message ... The EPA: http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm Release of Heavy Metals from Ironite® Ironite® is a common fertilizer made from mine tailings available at any lawn and garden store. The presence of heavy metals in Ironite® has resulted in its banning in Canada and lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy metals, most notably arsenic and lead. Bioavailable arsenic released from Ironite® is dependent on its mineralogical form. Previous work sponsored by the producer of Ironite® identified the arsenic bearing phase as arsenopyrite with the conclusion that arsenic in that form does not pose an ecological threat. However, a closer look with EXAFS has identified the arsenic phase within Ironite® as scorodite-like. Scorodite is more soluble than arsenopyrite, in fact, the dissolved arsenic released from scorodite can exceed the US drinking water standard. In addition to the data collected at Argonne National Labs in February 2005 that identified arsenate sorbed to iron oxides as the dominant arsenic bearing phase, secondary identification techniques are currently being used to confirm this finding such as thermogravimetric analysis and Mössbauer spectroscopy. Where is the site listing the people, animals or plants injured or killed by the use of this product? I Googled for 15 minutes and couldn't find anything. Not even a cancer cluster around sites where it's used. Contacts: Kirk Scheckel, 513/487-2865 Aaron Williams, 513/487-2878 Christopher Impelliteri, 513/487-2872 Thabet Tolaymat, 513/487-2860 James Ryan, 513/569-7653 (EIMS#135367) |
#157
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Ironite Questions?
"Jangchub" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:07:53 -0500, "Marie Dodge" wrote: "Jangchub" wrote in message . .. Pags, she's not getting it. When I saw that list of pesticides...who boy. She doesn't get that, if you nurture the soil with compost you make for FREE or buy relatively inexpensively she wouldn't need all the pesticides. But, alas, brick wall and all... You're another frothing fanatic who doesn't "get it." All our gardens are loaded with organic matter. Lying by YOU to further your "organic" agenda wont change that fact. Stop using me as an excuse to get on your anti-chemical soap box. Organic matter in the soil has no effect on crop pests and plant disease. Shmuck That's exactly what you are for pushing an agenda with no scientific studies to back you up, and not even knowing Neem Oil is sold as a miticide. Learn to deal with the painful truth and stop frothing at the mouth. http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/ Security is not what I have, it's what I can do without,,, |
#158
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Ironite Questions?
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... "Marie Dodge" wrote in message "Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message Tilling too much or too little has no effect on insect pests. The recent soil test showed plenty of organic matter. OM isn't the problem. Resistant insects and spiders are. Pests are becoming resistant to everything we're throwing at them. So what are your natural predator numbers like? Tell me what preys on spider mites and silverleaf whitefly and I'll tell you. Do you have lots of tiny birds in the garden? No "tiny" birds but the hummingbirds in the flower beds. We have the normal size birds, plenty of them, and they do peck at the ripe fruit. The pears and ripening tomatoes suffer the most bird damage. I get WF each spring but within a week there is not a sign of them because all the tiny birds feast on them. What tiny birds feast on them? Give me the names of the birds. Google them so I know what they are. Also, how do they pick them off the underside of the leaves without hovering in the air? Only hummers hover and they don't eat whitefly. They're nectar eaters. I know of no birds in TN that eat whitefly. |
#159
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Ironite Questions?
"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message ... Marie Dodge said: "Pat Kiewicz" wrote Tilling too much or too little has no effect on insect pests. It has a huge effect on soil biota, and that includes many BENEFICIALS: ground beetles, tiger beetles, mycchorizal fungi, predatory nematodes, etc. etc. And these prevent insect and spider infestation how? Farmers are no-tilling for years now and still suffering from pest infestation. With all those beneficials in their soil how do you explain that? Also, those of us with hard droughty clay either turn under organic matter or give up gardening. We have no choice. The recent soil test showed plenty of organic matter. OM isn't the problem. But just a ways up the thread you complained about it disappearing quickly...then when you later said it was tilled *twice* and turned yet again before planting in the spring, it seemed reasonable to bring the subject up. Of course it disappears quickly. The soil is full of microbes, earthworms, and all those beneficials you talk about. It's broken down rapidly in a warm climate in alkaline soil. More has to be added all the time. Once is not enough. I don't have your soil type where you can toss some compost on the surface and plant. I never even do any tillage (and for me, that's gentle forking) of the soil without adding organic material. That's one of top tips right there...no matter what soil you have. Then you don't have the heavy poor fine clay soil we do. Yeah, but before I moved here, I gardened on heavy clay. Breaking that was enourmous work. (Even though I was 26 years younger!) The main part of that garden was broken with a tiller and 6 yards of trucked in mushroom compost. Then there's no comparison. No mushroom compost to be had here. And it never had anything but hand tilling again. (It was divided into several long beds, raised up on one side like a terrace, running across the slope.) You're trying to compare apples and oranges - your situation to mine. When we added a couple of beds to it, it was hand-double dug with huge chunks of blue clay (some of the most solid chunks were hauled off). Took all the compost we had. Set up a few raised beds and never more than hand tilled them, either. We wouldn't have to till them either if had a truckload of mushroom compost over the three gardens and was 25 years younger. And never even hand-tilled without adding some additional OM. I always add compost or some kind of organic matter when I turn the soil over. -- Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. |
#160
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Ironite Questions?
"Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet wrote in message ... "Marie Dodge" wrote "paghat" wrote In short, organic gardening is gardening on the cheap! Non-organic methods feed into themselves -- expense builds on expense. LOL!!!! Those products are cheap? Now I know you're dreaming or have stock in one of the Co's that produce this stuff! A measly 4 lb bag of Kelp Meal was $17.99, say $18.00 or almost $130 to do my gardens. And that's just for the Kelp Meal........ you must live in lala land or are very wealthy. You use the products incorrectly and you insist on buying the most expensive (organically certified). You can stop the justifications. This was the only Kelp Meal to be found and I must have made 20 phone calls. Are you going to tell me I can buy, and pay shipping besides, for less than that? There's nothing on the bag that says it's certified by any org. It's Espoma brand. Already you're accusing us of using it incorrectly and the bag hasn't even been opened yet! LOL!!! Funnier yet,... you're accusing the co that makes it of giving the buyer the WRONG advice. Yoo Hoooo... try reading the bag. I buy kelp at a feed mill for under $1 a pound. I garden 3 times the space you do and my annual sack cost is under $100. What is it that I'm doing wrong? So you think I have access to your feed mill? There are no feed mills, as such, where I live. The last feed mill now supplies the yuppies in the new subdivisions with fertilizers and weed killers, lawn mowers and flea spray for their dogs. Why are you assuming everyone has access to what YOU have? |
#161
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Ironite Questions?
"Billy" wrote in message ... In article , "Marie Dodge" wrote: "Jangchub" wrote in message ... The number one cause of childrens overdose ending in in death is 'merica. No child here has died from eating Ironite. They get the lead from old paint and some toys from overseas. http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120# Ironite Story Reprinted with permission of The Dallas Morning News 03/30/98 THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS snip Of particular concern to scientists studying toxic materials is their effect on children. In the case of lead, for example, Dr. Weis said a child's rapidly developing body mistakes the toxic metal for calcium. Because the body needs calcium for growth, he said, a child's body "grabs" and keeps nearly all the lead the child ingests. "Children are basically little lead sponges," Dr. Weis said. snip Of particular concern to scientists studying toxic materials is their effect on children. In the case of lead, for example, Dr. Weis said a child's rapidly developing body mistakes the toxic metal for calcium. Because the body needs calcium for growth, he said, a child's body "grabs" and keeps nearly all the lead the child ingests. "Children are basically little lead sponges," Dr. Weis said. David Shields, a geologist with a Dallas engineering firm who has worked on lead cleanup projects, said the key question for consumers is not which forms of lead or arsenic are the most or least toxic. The EPA does not make that distinction when it plans residential cleanups, he noted. Instead, Mr. Shields said, the important question is whether consumers can make an informed choice. "I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't use any particular product," Mr. Shields said. "But lead is lead is lead." ------ It's a shame that you don't understand the consequences of your actions or that it's not just your environment that you are degrading. What has that 10 yr. old article got to do with Ironite? It's not even mentioned. -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html |
#162
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Ping: Marie
Marie Dodge wrote:
"Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet wrote in message ... "Marie Dodge" wrote "paghat" wrote In short, organic gardening is gardening on the cheap! Non-organic methods feed into themselves -- expense builds on expense. LOL!!!! Those products are cheap? Now I know you're dreaming or have stock in one of the Co's that produce this stuff! A measly 4 lb bag of Kelp Meal was $17.99, say $18.00 or almost $130 to do my gardens. And that's just for the Kelp Meal........ you must live in lala land or are very wealthy. You use the products incorrectly and you insist on buying the most expensive (organically certified). You can stop the justifications. This was the only Kelp Meal to be found and I must have made 20 phone calls. Are you going to tell me I can buy, and pay shipping besides, for less than that? There's nothing on the bag that says it's certified by any org. It's Espoma brand. Already you're accusing us of using it incorrectly and the bag hasn't even been opened yet! LOL!!! Funnier yet,... you're accusing the co that makes it of giving the buyer the WRONG advice. Yoo Hoooo... try reading the bag. I buy kelp at a feed mill for under $1 a pound. I garden 3 times the space you do and my annual sack cost is under $100. What is it that I'm doing wrong? So you think I have access to your feed mill? There are no feed mills, as such, where I live. The last feed mill now supplies the yuppies in the new subdivisions with fertilizers and weed killers, lawn mowers and flea spray for their dogs. Why are you assuming everyone has access to what YOU have? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Kelp meal? WTF? |
#163
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Ironite Questions?
In article ,
"Marie Dodge" wrote: "Billy" wrote in message ... In article , "Marie Dodge" wrote: "Jangchub" wrote in message ... The number one cause of childrens overdose ending in in death is 'merica. No child here has died from eating Ironite. They get the lead from old paint and some toys from overseas. http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120# Ironite Story Reprinted with permission of The Dallas Morning News 03/30/98 THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS snip Of particular concern to scientists studying toxic materials is their effect on children. In the case of lead, for example, Dr. Weis said a child's rapidly developing body mistakes the toxic metal for calcium. Because the body needs calcium for growth, he said, a child's body "grabs" and keeps nearly all the lead the child ingests. "Children are basically little lead sponges," Dr. Weis said. snip Of particular concern to scientists studying toxic materials is their effect on children. In the case of lead, for example, Dr. Weis said a child's rapidly developing body mistakes the toxic metal for calcium. Because the body needs calcium for growth, he said, a child's body "grabs" and keeps nearly all the lead the child ingests. "Children are basically little lead sponges," Dr. Weis said. David Shields, a geologist with a Dallas engineering firm who has worked on lead cleanup projects, said the key question for consumers is not which forms of lead or arsenic are the most or least toxic. The EPA does not make that distinction when it plans residential cleanups, he noted. Instead, Mr. Shields said, the important question is whether consumers can make an informed choice. "I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't use any particular product," Mr. Shields said. "But lead is lead is lead." ------ It's a shame that you don't understand the consequences of your actions or that it's not just your environment that you are degrading. What has that 10 yr. old article got to do with Ironite? It's not even mentioned. For those of you who understand English, I recommend http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120# njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/soilprofile/sp-v16.pdf http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1016232.html |
#164
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Marie
"zxcvbob" wrote
Marie Dodge wrote: "Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet wrote "Marie Dodge" wrote "paghat" wrote In short, organic gardening is gardening on the cheap! Non-organic methods feed into themselves -- expense builds on expense. LOL!!!! Those products are cheap? Now I know you're dreaming or have stock in one of the Co's that produce this stuff! A measly 4 lb bag of Kelp Meal was $17.99, say $18.00 or almost $130 to do my gardens. And that's just for the Kelp Meal........ you must live in lala land or are very wealthy. You use the products incorrectly and you insist on buying the most expensive (organically certified). You can stop the justifications. This was the only Kelp Meal to be found and I must have made 20 phone calls. And here I thought you were looking for greensand When did this idea of kelp jump up? The counter boy said it was good? Are you going to tell me I can buy, and pay shipping besides, for less than that? Who said anything about shipping? I thought one of Eric's employees might deliver it. Did you talk with him in your 20 calls? How about Dickenson's? There's nothing on the bag that says it's certified by any org. It's Espoma brand. Already you're accusing us of using it incorrectly and the bag hasn't even been opened yet! LOL!!! The only thing I've accused you of is wanting to spend too much money, then whine and cry about your bad decisions like it's our fault. Funnier yet,... you're accusing the co that makes it of giving the buyer the WRONG advice. Yoo Hoooo... try reading the bag. I usually gather technical information from less biased sources I buy kelp at a feed mill for under $1 a pound. I garden 3 times the space you do and my annual sack cost is under $100. What is it that I'm doing wrong? So you think I have access to your feed mill? There are no feed mills, as such, where I live. 100 feet out your front door, or a 30 mile radius? I'd prolly prove you wrong but I've stopped wasting my time doing your research. Have you called Eric yet? or Dickenson's? The last feed mill now supplies the yuppies in the new subdivisions with fertilizers and weed killers, lawn mowers and flea spray for their dogs. Why are you assuming everyone has access to what YOU have? Why are you such a fricken ass whiner / crybaby? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Kelp meal? WTF? Isn't the Dodger a trip? She just blows with the wind. She'll drive 30 miles to buy what the counter boy suggests, she overspends, comes up short and can't otherwise afford to step foot out the door. And it's all the yuppies fault mind you. No, no, methinks it's too many years ingesting the 'mine tailings' she calls gardening Steve Young |
#165
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Ironite Questions?
Jangchub said:
You're doing nothing wrong Steve. You are caught in the troll trap called Marie Dodge. Googling the posting history...scanning the group list...the number of postings... Yeah. -- Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. |
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