On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:10:42 +0100, "R M. Watkin"
wrote:

properly snipped and egregious top posting corrected

greensand

"Marie Dodge" wrote in message

A mineral rich product people use in gardens.

Thanks, but still not a lot wiser.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensand


Penelope

--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed"

Sorry Pat, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Marie's constant
whine & her inability to accept the help she asked for.

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Billy said:


In article 08-dnaFU_Ky5rS3VnZ2dnUVZ_u-
,
"Steve Peek" wrote:

Would anyone like some cheese to go with the whine?


I didn't hear a whine. I heard a gardener talking about gardening
experiences. But when you came in, the cheese was loud and clear.

I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about....


--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:29:53 -0400, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about....


That was before the weather became political.

In article ,
jellybean stonerfish wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:29:53 -0400, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

I thought the weather was always safe to talk (or grumble) about....


That was before the weather became political.

The politicals may try to control just about every thing but the best
forecast for tomorrow remains today . Yea I know it is a cooler August
but I read that the Salt H2o is being diluted and won‘t hold solar gain
as well. So a cold winter this year. Mad Man told me this too.
(Accuweather severe weather gay actuality it was a blog post.)

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online...earth/scientif
ic_evidence.htm

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article ,
"R M. Watkin" wrote:

Hi Marie,
Thanks, but still not a lot wiser.

Richard M. Watkin,
And you never will be when talking to one who chooses to be deaf, blind,
and dumb.

You probably have seen the reference to greensand in Wikipedia, so let
me describe another thought. One pound of iron (shavings would be best
but use what you can get) in a plastic bucket, pour one can of cheap
soft drink over it and wait 24 hr.. If iron remains, repeat soft drink
addition. When iron is dissolved, it will cover 100 sq. ft.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"R M. Watkin" wrote:

Hi Marie,
Thanks, but still not a lot wiser.

Richard M. Watkin,
And you never will be when talking to one who chooses to be deaf, blind,
and dumb.

You probably have seen the reference to greensand in Wikipedia, so let
me describe another thought. One pound of iron (shavings would be best
but use what you can get) in a plastic bucket, pour one can of cheap
soft drink over it and wait 24 hr.. If iron remains, repeat soft drink
addition. When iron is dissolved, it will cover 100 sq. ft.


Why go to all that trouble (to make ferrous phosphate/carbonate/citrate)
when ferrous sulphate (copperas) is so cheap?

If you have iron filings, just sprinkle them around the garden.

A pound of iron should cover a lot more than 100 ft^2, but you're also
not going to dissolve it that easily. (Me thinks you are just pulling
this out of a dark place)

Bob

In article , lid says...

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
Pags, she's not getting it. When I saw that list of pesticides...who
boy. She doesn't get that, if you nurture the soil with compost you
make for FREE or buy relatively inexpensively she wouldn't need all
the pesticides. But, alas, brick wall and all...

You're another frothing fanatic who doesn't "get it." All our gardens are
loaded with organic matter. Lying by YOU to further your "organic" agenda
wont change that fact. Stop using me as an excuse to get on your
anti-chemical soap box. Organic matter in the soil has no effect on crop
pests and plant disease.

No one has said it this way, so I will.

There are three integrated subjects: Pests, soil, environment. If you
ignore any of these in considering this year's problems you may be beset
by them again next year.

With regards to the pests, clearly what you've always done has failed or
is failing miserably.

The people you've posed the question to have all given their perspective
and many responses have been quite correct.

They may not answer what you see as the urgency of your situation, but
you would be served better by following up on some of them as part of an
overall plan.

The one consideration I'd like to present with regards to your
particular insect problem is pesticide resistance. If they are
resistant, the only long term practical solutions, are likely organic
ones.

With regards to the soil, iron is a micronutrient and unless something
is seriously out of whack with your land, you don't need it. If this
year's analysis says you do, kelp as a soil amendment should answer the
issue with relatively little work and with 60 or so other micronutrients
as part of the package.

If you are going by an analysis done in years gone by, you need a new
one.

In response to your comment about organic matter in the soil I'd like to
say that the healthier the soil, the healthier the plants, the less
tendency for the plants to attract garden pests.

If you've been consistently using both pesticides and herbicides over
the years, your garden's soil has probably lost some or much of the
biodiversity that builds soil, and when you build up the biodiversity
with compost each time you use the poisons, you kill it again.

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"R M. Watkin" wrote:

Hi Marie,
Thanks, but still not a lot wiser.

Richard M. Watkin,
And you never will be when talking to one who chooses to be deaf, blind,
and dumb.

You probably have seen the reference to greensand in Wikipedia, so let
me describe another thought. One pound of iron (shavings would be best
but use what you can get) in a plastic bucket, pour one can of cheap
soft drink over it and wait 24 hr.. If iron remains, repeat soft drink
addition. When iron is dissolved, it will cover 100 sq. ft.


Why go to all that trouble (to make ferrous phosphate/carbonate/citrate)
when ferrous sulphate (copperas) is so cheap?

If you have iron filings, just sprinkle them around the garden.

A pound of iron should cover a lot more than 100 ft^2, but you're also
not going to dissolve it that easily. (Me thinks you are just pulling
this out of a dark place)

I have been in error before, but I don't baffle gab. Now what lead you
to your egregiously erroneous conclusion?


Bob

http://www.garden-ville.com/4429490_36600.htm

ferrous sulfate --- FeSO4·7H2O (most common)


at. wt.
Fe = 55.845
S = 32
O = 16

SO4 = 96

H2O = 18

FeSO4·7H2O = 278

Fe / FeSO4·7H2O = .2 = 20%

----------------
Greensand 17% iron: 40 lb bag good for 700 sq. ft.

1 - 40 lb bag = 6.8 lb iron

6.8 lb iron / 700 sq. ft. = 0.00971429 lb / 1 sq. ft.

0.971429 lb / 100 sq. ft.

You can do arithmetic, can't you Bob?
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

"Marie Dodge" wrote

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote

"Marie Dodge" wrote in message

I can only shop at the stores that are here. There's a nursery that
carries bone and blood meal and I think they still have Fish Emulsion.
It would be several hundred dollars to purchase enough for our gardens.

How much is it in the US? I bought a 2 litre container for about $12
about 3 years ago and I'm still using it up. I have about 3 acres of
garden.

I'm talking about *ALL* the organic stuff I would need for *ALL* of our
the gardens.

Did I misplace a decimal somewhere? I'm sure you said 900 square feet was
the size of your garden.

Are you from the school that if a little does good, more will do more good?

You are way out of kilter with what such a modest garden would require.

I'll also make note of something you said in another post. You said that you
put leaves directly on the garden in the fall and till them in in the
spring. I would suggest composting the leaves with grass clippings in a
separate compost pile. High carbon directly on to the garden has a tendency
to steal away the nitrogen. You want to satisfy compost's nitrogen need
before it hits the garden. That will also allow beneficial microbes to
develop and supply high levels of beneficial humic acid.

Steve Young

"Penelope Periwinkle" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:10:42 +0100, "R M. Watkin"
wrote:

properly snipped and egregious top posting corrected

greensand

"Marie Dodge" wrote in message

A mineral rich product people use in gardens.

Thanks, but still not a lot wiser.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensand


Penelope

Hi Penelope,
Thanks, Will go to wikipedia and see what I can find out.

Richard M. Watkin,

--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed"

Hi, zxcvbob,
Thanks for that tip, I will make a not of it.

Richard M. Watkin.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Billy wrote:
In article ,
"R M. Watkin" wrote:

Hi Marie,
Thanks, but still not a lot wiser.

Richard M. Watkin,
And you never will be when talking to one who chooses to be deaf, blind,
and dumb.

You probably have seen the reference to greensand in Wikipedia, so let me
describe another thought. One pound of iron (shavings would be best but
use what you can get) in a plastic bucket, pour one can of cheap soft
drink over it and wait 24 hr.. If iron remains, repeat soft drink
addition. When iron is dissolved, it will cover 100 sq. ft.


Why go to all that trouble (to make ferrous phosphate/carbonate/citrate)
when ferrous sulphate (copperas) is so cheap?

If you have iron filings, just sprinkle them around the garden.

A pound of iron should cover a lot more than 100 ft^2, but you're also not
going to dissolve it that easily. (Me thinks you are just pulling this
out of a dark place)

Bob

"Steve Peek" wrote in message
m...
Sorry Pat, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to Marie's constant
whine & her inability to accept the help she asked for.

You mean her inability to pay for all the expensive supplements she was
directed to purchase rather than simply answer the questions she asked.

"Steve Young" bowtieATbrightdslDOTnet wrote in message
...
"Marie Dodge" wrote

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote

"Marie Dodge" wrote in message

I can only shop at the stores that are here. There's a nursery that
carries bone and blood meal and I think they still have Fish Emulsion.
It would be several hundred dollars to purchase enough for our gardens.

How much is it in the US? I bought a 2 litre container for about $12
about 3 years ago and I'm still using it up. I have about 3 acres of
garden.

I'm talking about *ALL* the organic stuff I would need for *ALL* of our
the gardens.

Did I misplace a decimal somewhere? I'm sure you said 900 square feet was
the size of your garden.

The three gardens come to roughly 900 to 1000 sq. ft. combined.


Are you from the school that if a little does good, more will do more
good?

No. I wasn't raised to be wasteful.


You are way out of kilter with what such a modest garden would require.

I'll also make note of something you said in another post. You said that
you put leaves directly on the garden in the fall and till them in in the
spring. I would suggest composting the leaves with grass clippings in a
separate compost pile. High carbon directly on to the garden has a
tendency to steal away the nitrogen. You want to satisfy compost's
nitrogen need before it hits the garden. That will also allow beneficial
microbes to develop and supply high levels of beneficial humic acid.

You're 100% correct but we don't have enough grass clippings and no one to
rake up those we do occasionally have. They're sparse, light and left to
decay on the lawn. The lawn is some kind of Bermuda grass that is fine and
needs little mowing.


Steve Young

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
(Me thinks you are just pulling
this out of a dark place)


Like a lot of other stuff you're going to read on these gardening groups.
And if someone can't afford to buy and pay shipping costs on everything
recommended, they're insulted, degraded, belittled and more. I can see why
so many of the old posters from the 90s are no longer on these two groups.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

IIRC, horticultural oil will take care of both of those.

Sorry but that is not true. I bought Organicide (oils) and so far the
whiteflies are still on the plants, as are the spider mites. Neem Oil didn't
work either. It's been well over a month since I started spraying the
plants and so far so response. What did work, but can't be used on
Vegetables, is the Systemic I used on the flowers. That worked in about a
week. The flowers are clean. The veggies, stinking like cod liver oil are
still infested.

Insecticides do not work very well on spider mites because they are not
insects. Kelthane is a miticide that works OK, but I don't know if it's
on the market right now. It was taken off for a while because it
contained traces of DDT from the manufacturing process (maybe that's why
it worked so well), but I think it's back.

I am very familiar with Kelthane. I couldn't find anywhere online that sells
it. As far as I know it does contain DDT and is persistent where sprayed.
Two sprays and the mites would be gone - and stay gone! I've use it in the
past. I was told it's no longer sold in my state. The horticultural sprays
don't work on the SMs and WFs here. Perhaps their overuse by organic
gardeners has caused tolerance.

Wife's miniature roses had spider mites this year -- like every year. I
sprayed them with water (mites hate that), but what I did that really
helped was fertilized the plants. They were stressed because they were
nitrogen deficient. I mixed a generous pint of **** in enough water to
make 2 gallons (the capacity of the sprinkling can) and watered them with
that. Did that twice in one week. It must have been a little strong
because it burned a few of the leaves, but the plants took off growing and
once they were healthy the mites left. Don't tell my wife that I peed on
her roses. Later, I scratched a little superphosphate into the soil.

Amazing!


I've been using the same "liquid fertilizer" sparingly in my vegetable
garden this year. It's a lot cheaper than fish emulsion, or even 10-10-10
for that matter.

I noticed today that the tomatoes need spraying with a fungicide. Gonna
do that tomorrow. One of the "brown bottle" chemicals, because I think
Bordeaux mixture (I have that too) will burn tomato plants.

Bob