"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

Must have learned well from Monsanto and its multitude of name-saving
spinoffs.

See from woodhouse's post your still trying to find the conspiracy Billy.
BTW your research is still mostly wrong and lacking, but I'm glad you at
least figured out you were beating that dead horse. Still waiting on how
Ironite is posioning the earth.

In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

Must have learned well from Monsanto and its multitude of name-saving
spinoffs.

See from woodhouse's post your still trying to find the conspiracy Billy.
BTW your research is still mostly wrong and lacking, but I'm glad you at
least figured out you were beating that dead horse. Still waiting on how
Ironite is posioning the earth.

First, I am not "Billy" as one can plainly see from the attribution.
Second, you have made a logical error in deducing any motive on Billy's
(or anyone else's) part from something I've said.

If you have a specific issue with something *I* said, then state your
facts. If you dispute something someone else says, then state your
facts in response to the post in question. And btw, just saying
someone's research is "wrong" or "lacking", absent any evidence, hardly
comprises an argument with legs.
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

Must have learned well from Monsanto and its multitude of name-saving
spinoffs.

See from woodhouse's post your still trying to find the conspiracy
Billy.
BTW your research is still mostly wrong and lacking, but I'm glad you at
least figured out you were beating that dead horse. Still waiting on how
Ironite is posioning the earth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, I am not "Billy" as one can plainly see from the attribution.
Second, you have made a logical error in deducing any motive on Billy's
(or anyone else's) part from something I've said.
If you have a specific issue with something *I* said, then state your
facts. If you dispute something someone else says, then state your
facts in response to the post in question.

You seem well educated, so I assume you also read well. Please reread my
first sentence again. This is not bout you. If your name is not Billy,
you did not need to respond back? It is not a self righteous indignation
thing on your part, is it ? I certainly did not mean to slight your
interjection of a collusion theory. Besides, no, I'm not in error, I
never thought you really said anything. This is not a challenge to your
belief system, I could care less how someone worships, just what they offer
as proof of their beliefs. So, now that you got this off your chest, do you
feel better?

I KF him because of his continuously avoiding answering the OP question all
the while using grade school book report material to confuse facts and all I
"see" on my reader is you responding to my post, showing tidbits of his
"research". So yes Ms Woodhouse, I did read and "see" chronologically
where you jumped in the conversation and I feel very comfortable that
protocol is correct in me responding, just as you did.

And btw, just saying
someone's research is "wrong" or "lacking", absent any evidence, hardly
comprises an argument with legs.

Conversely, just because someone infers some "fact" as he has done in this
entire thread, does not make it a fact......Mr. B. Gruff has yet to
present any evidence of his accusations , just some Google searches and
assumptions yet he uses my sources to say that the product is not the same
pre 2006 as it is now (duh!!! dead horse?) now claiming some sort of moral
vistory or high road because he "alludes" that it was all a conspiracy.

Ironite Products Company is not located in GA, nor CA ( fact) . Most
likely it is now defunct as there are no current records( assumption).
Mr. Brungs was the President of Ironite Products Company of AZ but never
any President nor officer of Central Garden and Pets whose address is the
one in Walnut Grove CA, and owns the GroTec Company in GA, ( fact) It
appears Brungs was a consultant of sorts to CG&P as part of the buyout (
fact) , however there are no records of the man since, mostly likely took
his $6Mill and left as quick as the EPA would let him (assumption) . So
again, despite someone writing conspiracy theory( pure assumption). I gave
references to all this previous. I don't have to prove/disprove this, the
person saying it has to prove it or at least establish some bona fides. It
is easy to prove, Just search the State's Public Records, look at the Corps
SEC filing for its Officers and Board of Directors. Has any of that been
done as yet??? I bet not, nor has the "lawsuit" in ELF's thinly veiled
advertisement( news release) been researched (btw it was not 2006 as noted
in Billy's post you included, it was settled out of court and taken off the
Court's Docket in 2003,BTW the settlement outcome was a warning label
telling kids not to eat Ironite 1-0-0 ). How about the EPA report
referenced in their news release that keeps being touted as the smoking gun
of poisoning the earth? Has anyone read it? But the bottom line, don't try
to break suit and trump the hand with a unproven(and unprovable) conspiracy
theory. (see the Art of Boloney Detection)

Again, It is not my job to refute BS statements by doing that persons
research for them, but I will challenge them. Now I have proven my case
that the horse is dead with factual references and yet for all this self
righteous indignation and pseudo research material, I'm still waiting for
someone to answer the OP question and tell how the Ironite being sold today
is poisoning the earth? Is this just more Internet myth, mystery and
intrigue? Perhaps Brungs is now working on recycling asbestos material into
sandbags for FEMA?

In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...

Must have learned well from Monsanto and its multitude of
name-saving spinoffs.

See from woodhouse's post your still trying to find the conspiracy
Billy. BTW your research is still mostly wrong and lacking, but
I'm glad you at least figured out you were beating that dead
horse. Still waiting on how Ironite is posioning the earth.

First, I am not "Billy" as one can plainly see from the
attribution. Second, you have made a logical error in deducing any
motive on Billy's (or anyone else's) part from something I've said.
If you have a specific issue with something *I* said, then state
your facts. If you dispute something someone else says, then state
your facts in response to the post in question.

Please reread my first sentence again. This is not bout you. If
your name is not Billy, you did not need to respond back?

Learn to use Usenet. There are many FAQs. When you have something to
say to someone, the polite (not rude) thing to do is to respond to the
copy posted by *that* person--- not someone else. It's a very simple
concept.

It is not a self righteous indignation thing on your part, is it ?

How utterly silly and fictitious. But you amuse me as would a fly
drowning in the buttermilk.

I certainly did not mean to slight your interjection of a collusion
theory.

I interjected no such thing. You appear to have either a vivid
imagination or a need to pretend.

Besides, no, I'm not in error,.....

Normally, one puts a period at the end of a sentence, not a comma.

I never thought you really said anything.

Then it is your comprehension at issue, not mine.

This is not a challenge to your belief system,

My belief system is not at issue. It's a fact--- not a belief--- that
you responded to the wrong post.
[...]

I KF him ....

Am I supposed to care about that?

And btw, just saying
someone's research is "wrong" or "lacking", absent any evidence,
hardly comprises an argument with legs.

Conversely, just because someone infers some "fact" as he has done
in this entire thread, does not make it a fact...

Irrelevant to my posts.

Ironite Products Company is not located in GA....

Your topical argument is with someone else, not me. It is illogical
(not to speak of ridiculously convenient) to KF the posts with which you
disagree and then respond to uninvolved others instead--- as though they
could possibly give a rip. I certainly don't. Perhaps you are afraid
the OP will provide an argument you can't contest so it is easier to
post your dri....... uh.... thoughts to uninvolved parties. Perhaps
what you need is a controlled audience--- one that will delight in your
every word. What you need is a moderated NG.

Again, It is not my job to refute BS statements...

Your mode of employment is of no concern to me. If something seems "BS"
to you, then contest it with facts. Otherwise, it is *your* credibility
that is in question--- not the post you tag as "BS". I can just see
this arguendo before a judge:

You: "Your Honor, Counsel for the Plaintiff's argument is BS"

Judge: laughing "Hearing no facts to rebut the Plaintiff, this case
is dismissed."
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message

Irrelevant

Exactly my point, but your pretentiousness is cute.

In article ss, says...


But I would like someone to please show me where using Ironite products is
poisoning the earth, without all the drama and baloney? Especially since
there are some rumors Ironite is using the touted Greensand for the iron
source in some product lines( one from the EPA scientist himself in the
holy citation). PIM's EPA's superfund sites link is pure "Baloney" and
totally irrelevent since once again the brand Ironite(R) was sold in April
06 and the Ironite Products Company (AKA the company that used the mine
tailing,. not the one selling the product today) settled with the EPA in
May06, the mine made superfund status in 08. Bottom line...... no more iron
from the Iron King's mine tailings in the product Ironite(R).

So there's a cutoff date on the original product.

I'd suggest that the warning isn't irrelevant quite yet, unless there's
been a recall of all the old product and every bit of it has been been
pulled from homeowners' shelves and returned.

Do you have a time frame for when new product -really- began to hit the
shelves and know of any significant label changes between old product
and new.

In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message

Irrelevant

Exactly my point, but your pretentiousness is cute.

Translation: "I can't respond intelligently so I'll just make a smart
remark"
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" rants on again in message
with:

"I can't respond intelligently so I'll just make a smart remark"(period)

Issie, you forgot to attach your remark!

In the meantime, I will run your conspiracy theory through the Area 51
Data Bank and cross check the X-files to confirm your accusations. I just
have to say though, we have to quit meeting like this. My wife is getting
suspicious. So, lets pretend to be getting some FACTS on the thread topic
of Ironite, specifically how is it poisoning the earth? I'm sure we will
talk soon, cuz I know you can't do without me. Your hopelessly hooked now.

"phorbin" wrote in message


So there's a cutoff date on the original product.

I'd suggest that the warning isn't irrelevant quite yet, unless there's
been a recall of all the old product and every bit of it has been been
pulled from homeowners' shelves and returned.

Do you have a time frame for when new product -really- began to hit the
shelves and know of any significant label changes between old product
and new.


I don't know any cutoff datet. A recall would have been prudent since it
was demonized as such a
major health concern for years. I have no clue as to why that did not
happen, but I am not a judge nor a lawyer not even a part of the media
circus. I would have thought the ELF lawyers being as savvy and protective
as they have claimed in their many news releases would have asked for a
recall in their settlement. I note the SF court documents are a bit
different than ELF
actually claims in their website. All we can do is read the actual courts
documents and not rely on what either of the two parties claim.

Some side info for the conspiracy theorists.... The lawyer for the Ironite"
reconstruction "was a John G. Kerkorvian, Esq. of AZ reputed to be one of
the many Keating lawyers, (background info on Keating):
http://www.azcentral.com/news/specia...chapter7.html),
the Owner of Ironite Products Co is/was a Terry Nolan but the CEO/Pres
of IPC was, as reported, a H. Brungs
http://www.greenbeam.com/email/archives/gc05-02-06.htm
who hired on to consult with CentralG&P and later with the EPA to sell
the mine tailing clean-up material to the Alaskan Highway Department to be
used in the "Bridge/Road to No Where" Project so as to mitigate cleanup
cost. (just kidding about the last part!) The other is feeding the fire for
those so inclined.

It appears a recall wasn't considered when the parties settled out of court
in
CA, I believe the Judge signed the order in Aug 03... no lawsuit... $150 K
for the Elf lawyers, $150K for the ELF's charity group, a restriction not to
sell the product in CA until the product or the CA law was changed and a
requirement to put a warning label on the bag for Kids not to eat Ironite
1-0-0 or soil that contains Ironite 1-0-0 ( Ya, some people have to be told
this). 1-0-0 was the only Ironite product mentioned.
http://webaccess.sftc.org/Scripts/Ma...=-ACGC02409694 ,
Don't know if there were other soil products made by IPC. They did make
some product for use in
oil field mud, don't know if they still do.

There is no Ironite Products Company website any longer to check. There is
a mention from some Zoominfo website of IPC's address being in CA but it is
from a website that gathers internet business info (GIGO) similar to what
Dun and Bradstreet offers but at the K-12 level. I have my doubts of its
accuracy and do doubt the reference sources it uses, but please, ... check
the
sources it lists for yourself, the last one listed is from 2006/7 but says
the exact same thingit references in 2000 so it is a recycled news composite
article referencing another old source or what we use to call a rumor
confirming a rumor.

I've said prior there is info out there that shows the Co. being sold in
April 06, the EPA reaching a settlement with the Mine in May 06 ( do not
know if it is a cease and desist order or just clean up action) and the
Superfund designation status in Aug 08. I do not have a actual date of the
WA State analysis, they are being ****y and I don't feel it worth my while
to file a
PDA (a Public Disclosure Authorization) to get it.

I'm still waiting for all this Info on how Ironite is killing the earth.
Now I read in new posts where all chemical ferts are killing the earth's
soil.
I again invite all reading my $.02 here to read Segan's " The Art of Boloney
Detection" and use it to
keep facts from the manure.

BTW, did you know the organic fert ESPOMA GARDEN-TONE 4-6-6 uses waste
product and has
heavy metal levels of Arsenic of 9 ppm. Lead of 15 ppm and Zinc of 540 ppm?
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...asp?pname=4478

Gunner

In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

In the meantime, I will run your conspiracy theory...

As I have disclosed no conspiracy theory, that contrivance and the rest
of your nonsense puts you squarely in the dumper with the rest of the
trolls--- the flotsam and jetsam of Usenet who who delight in getting
their rocks off by pathetic, moronic attempts to disrupt honest
discussion. You failed (again). And you certainly have naught to say
about gardening. I guess you'll have run along to the binaries now with
the other dysfunctional twits to burn off some of that.... snicker
....deviance.


OB-Gardening:

"My garden is an honest place." Ralph Waldo Emerson
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

"Isabella Woodhouse" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

In the meantime, I will run your conspiracy theory...

As I have disclosed no conspiracy theory, that contrivance and the rest
of your nonsense puts you squarely in the dumper with the rest of the
trolls--- the flotsam and jetsam of Usenet who who delight in getting
their rocks off by pathetic, moronic attempts to disrupt honest
discussion. You failed (again). And you certainly have naught to say
about gardening. I guess you'll have run along to the binaries now with
the other dysfunctional twits to burn off some of that.... snicker
...deviance.

Well Issie, I guess its for the best, we must think of our spouses first.

Just know that I have cherished our short time together and I will always
have fond memories of you.

In article ss,
says...

I'm still waiting for all this Info on how Ironite is killing the earth.
Now I read in new posts where all chemical ferts are killing the earth's
soil.
I again invite all reading my $.02 here to read Segan's " The Art of Boloney
Detection" and use it to keep facts from the manure.

I think that the problem is, as is usual in our world, an economy of
scale and a scale of ignorance.

What we don't know can hurt us. Someone, somewhere will try to exploit
our ignorance.

Allow me to suggest Dan Ariely's "Predictably Irrational: the hidden
forces that shape our decisions".

BTW, did you know the organic fert ESPOMA GARDEN-TONE 4-6-6 uses waste
product and has
heavy metal levels of Arsenic of 9 ppm. Lead of 15 ppm and Zinc of 540 ppm?
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...asp?pname=4478

No I didn't. Thanks for the reference.

"phorbin" wrote in message
. ..
In article ss,
says...


Allow me to suggest Dan Ariely's "Predictably Irrational: the hidden
forces that shape our decisions".


I will get it. I believe this is info I have been searching for. I recall
a headline that some Ivy League scientist conducted experiments that showed
where a large percentage of people will not change their opinion even when
confronted with concrete evidence. I wasn't able to save the reference .
Regardless if he is or not, the excerpt I read sounded interesting. Thank
you