On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:59:49 +0000, DavidofWales wrote:

Hi I'm wondering if I could boil some tobaco in water and use the
resulting solution to spray on vedge as an insecticde? If so, what are
the ratios and will my vedge be ok to eat or will they become toxic?
Will they even be damaged by the spray?

If not does anybody else know of any cheap homemade alternatives to the
store bought stuff. I'm really trying to keep costs to a minimum this
year givien my skintness!

Many thanks

Dave

The usual homemade insecticide is soap and vegetable oil.

http://www.organicgardeningweb.com/R...dal%20Soap.htm

On Feb 15, 5:35*pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
DavidofWales

being aware that you can also poison yourself by ingesting the tea.

it is dangerous 'common sense' might be to handle it
without much thought like you handle other tobacco products.


Ahh... I understand now. Know it was the stupid rabbit David, not
you. I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label so as to know it might burn if you spill it on you. I don't
think the man needed more than the warning you gave and he damn sure
didn't need the theatrics from some others. You gave the man an
honest effort as to an answer and qualified your concerns and your
perspective. I do understand your concern about toxicity but do fact
checking heat killing nicotine in cigarettes ok? not quite right.
Again, I did not believe there needed to be additional warnings and he
needed to know there is more than a bit of personal perspective.

I only hope you don't drink any of the "tea" David but know there
hasn't been a single death from nicotine poisoning yet reported this
year, in the States anyway, ...nor last year either. Don't want you
to be the first.

In article
,
Gunner wrote:

On Feb 15, 5:35*pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
DavidofWales

being aware that you can also poison yourself by ingesting the tea.

it is dangerous 'common sense' might be to handle it
without much thought like you handle other tobacco products.


Ahh... I understand now. Know it was the stupid rabbit David, not
you. I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label so as to know it might burn if you spill it on you. I don't
think the man needed more than the warning you gave and he damn sure
didn't need the theatrics from some others. You gave the man an
honest effort as to an answer and qualified your concerns and your
perspective. I do understand your concern about toxicity but do fact
checking heat killing nicotine in cigarettes ok? not quite right.
Again, I did not believe there needed to be additional warnings and he
needed to know there is more than a bit of personal perspective.

I only hope you don't drink any of the "tea" David but know there
hasn't been a single death from nicotine poisoning yet reported this
year, in the States anyway, ...nor last year either. Don't want you
to be the first.

The idea of tea does suggest ingestion but in the garden world it can
have other meanings.

You folks ever hear of blackleaf 40 ?

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...propargite/nic
otine/insect-prof-nicotine.html

or http://thurly.net/0vrt

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

³Every conflict in the world today has its origin in the
imagination of British map drawers,² Author Unknown

Gunner wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:35 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
DavidofWales

being aware that you can also poison yourself by ingesting the tea.

it is dangerous 'common sense' might be to handle it
without much thought like you handle other tobacco products.


Ahh... I understand now. Know it was the stupid rabbit David, not
you. I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label so as to know it might burn if you spill it on you.

Your comparison is way off target. We all have experience of hot drinks so
it is obvious from childhood that they can burn you. There is nothing
obvious about tobacco that says it is immediately dangerous. Common
experience is the reverse, that you can safely handle tobacco, my
grandfather did not put on gloves to roll a cigarette. Unless you had
experience of handling the tea and inadvertently given yourself a buzz how
would you know it was quite toxic and could be absorbed through the skin
unless someone told you?


think the man needed more than the warning you gave and he damn sure
didn't need the theatrics from some others. You gave the man an
honest effort as to an answer and qualified your concerns and your
perspective. I do understand your concern about toxicity but do fact
checking heat killing nicotine in cigarettes ok? not quite right.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

or are you quibbling because I said 'destroyed by heat' rather than
'burned'?

This point is also relevant to perceptions of harm. Smokers smoke
cigarettes all the time without apparently poisoning themselves with
nicotine, this contributes to the perception that tobacco is relatively
harmless in the short term. When you make tea with it the majority of
nicotine is not destroyed as in the burning of the cigarette.

D

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:35 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
DavidofWales

being aware that you can also poison yourself by ingesting the tea.

it is dangerous 'common sense' might be to handle it
without much thought like you handle other tobacco products.


Ahh... I understand now. Know it was the stupid rabbit David, not
you. I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label so as to know it might burn if you spill it on you.

Your comparison is way off target. We all have experience of hot drinks
so it is obvious from childhood that they can burn you. There is nothing
obvious about tobacco that says it is immediately dangerous. Common
experience is the reverse, that you can safely handle tobacco, my
grandfather did not put on gloves to roll a cigarette. Unless you had
experience of handling the tea and inadvertently given yourself a buzz
how would you know it was quite toxic and could be absorbed through the
skin unless someone told you?


think the man needed more than the warning you gave and he damn sure
didn't need the theatrics from some others. You gave the man an
honest effort as to an answer and qualified your concerns and your
perspective. I do understand your concern about toxicity but do fact
checking heat killing nicotine in cigarettes ok? not quite right.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

or are you quibbling because I said 'destroyed by heat' rather than 'burned'?

This point is also relevant to perceptions of harm. Smokers smoke
cigarettes all the time without apparently poisoning themselves with
nicotine, this contributes to the perception that tobacco is relatively
harmless in the short term. When you make tea with it the majority of
nicotine is not destroyed as in the burning of the cigarette.

D

I am the one with the theatrics here! Give me credit where it is do...
Idiot! I am saying teas are not like rolling cigarettes. Teas make it
easier to get adsorbed into the skin and can make you very sick, not just
ingestion.

Like it needs no warning? I believe it does! Common sense is almost non
existent in people, especially the young that may be on the naive side.
After all, if people had common sense they would NOT be smoking cigarettes,
getting drunk every other day, watching fox news or vote republican.
theatrics here

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:35 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
DavidofWales

being aware that you can also poison yourself by ingesting the tea.

it is dangerous 'common sense' might be to handle it
without much thought like you handle other tobacco products.


Ahh... I understand now. Know it was the stupid rabbit David, not
you. I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label so as to know it might burn if you spill it on you.

Your comparison is way off target. We all have experience of hot drinks so
it is obvious from childhood that they can burn you. There is nothing
obvious about tobacco that says it is immediately dangerous. Common
experience is the reverse, that you can safely handle tobacco, my
grandfather did not put on gloves to roll a cigarette. Unless you had
experience of handling the tea and inadvertently given yourself a buzz how
would you know it was quite toxic and could be absorbed through the skin
unless someone told you?


think the man needed more than the warning you gave and he damn sure
didn't need the theatrics from some others. You gave the man an
honest effort as to an answer and qualified your concerns and your
perspective. I do understand your concern about toxicity but do fact
checking heat killing nicotine in cigarettes ok? not quite right.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

or are you quibbling because I said 'destroyed by heat' rather than
'burned'?

This point is also relevant to perceptions of harm. Smokers smoke
cigarettes all the time without apparently poisoning themselves with
nicotine, this contributes to the perception that tobacco is relatively
harmless in the short term. When you make tea with it the majority of
nicotine is not destroyed as in the burning of the cigarette.

D

40*60*mg (0.5-1.0*mg/kg) of nicotine can be a lethal dosage for adult
humans.

The amount of nicotine that smokers inhale from each cigarette is 1.5
milligrams per cigarette.

The amount of nicotine in a single cigarette is 8 to 9 milligrams on
average.

Nicotine affects almost every system in the body. When you take a puff,
your heart beats faster, your pulse quickens, your veins constrict, your
blood pressure increases. Your adrenal glands pump out adrenaline that
increases your heart rate, relaxes many of your smooth muscles, and
raises your metabolic rate.* Even the electrical activity in your brain
changes.

Totally avoidable.
--
- Billy
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

On Feb 16, 4:11*pm, Nad R wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:35 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:

I am the one with the theatrics here! Give me credit where it is do...

its due ...dan
Idiot! *I am saying teas are not like rolling cigarettes. Teas make it
easier to get adsorbed into the skin and can make you very sick, not just
ingestion.

again.... how much is that dan? Is it the ONE sig(sic) that your
teacher rubbed on the rabbits neck?

Like it needs no warning? I believe it does!

and so you have said.... among many other things

Common sense is almost non
existent in people, especially the young that may be on the naive side.
After all, if people had common sense they would NOT be smoking cigarettes,
getting drunk every other day, watching fox news or vote republican.
theatrics here

and you once again have proved your point.

On Feb 16, 3:14*pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:35 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
DavidofWales

being aware that you can also poison yourself by ingesting the tea.

it is dangerous 'common sense' might be to handle it
without much thought like you handle other tobacco products.

Ahh... I understand now. *Know it was the stupid rabbit David, *not
you. *I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label *so as to *know it might burn if you spill it on you.

Your comparison is way off target. *We all have experience of hot drinks so
it is obvious from childhood that they can burn you. *There is nothing
obvious about tobacco that says it is immediately dangerous. *Common
experience is the reverse, that you can safely handle tobacco, my
grandfather did not put on gloves to roll a cigarette. *Unless you had
experience of handling the tea and inadvertently given yourself a buzz how
would you know it was quite toxic and could be absorbed through the skin
unless someone told you?

think the man needed more than the *warning you gave and he damn sure
didn't need the theatrics from some others. *You gave the man an
honest effort as to an answer and qualified your concerns and your
perspective. I do understand your concern about toxicity *but do fact
checking heat killing nicotine in cigarettes ok? *not quite right.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

or are you quibbling because I said 'destroyed by heat' rather than
'burned'?

This point is also relevant to perceptions of harm. *Smokers smoke
cigarettes all the time without apparently poisoning themselves with
nicotine, this contributes to the perception that tobacco is relatively
harmless in the short term. *When you make tea with it the majority of
nicotine is not destroyed as in the burning of the cigarette.

D

quibble? It is you who is pulling at straws here David.

Your analogy is all wrong but please continue to try to connect the
dots

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunny wrote:
Ahh... I understand now. Know it was the stupid rabbit David, not
you. I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label so as to know it might burn if you spill it on you.

Another urban myth for the chattering class.

Seinfeld mocked it. Letterman ranked it in his top ten list. And more
than fifteen years later, its infamy continues. Everyone knows the
McDonald¹s coffee case. It has been routinely cited as an example of how
citizens have taken advantage of America¹s legal system, but is that a
fair rendition of the facts? Hot Coffee reveals what really happened to
Stella Liebeck, the Albuquerque woman who spilled coffee on herself and
sued McDonald¹s, while exploring how and why the case garnered so much
media attention, who funded the effort and to what end.

HOT COFFEE, the movie, a documentary feature film by SUSAN SALADOFF was
selected to premiere and compete in the U.S. Documentary Competition at
the 2011 Sundance Film Festival in Park City.

79 year old Stella Liebeck suffered third degree burns on her groin and
inner thighs while trying to add sugar to her coffee at a McDonalds
drive through. Third degree burns are the most serious kind of burn.
McDonalds knew it had a problem. There were at least 700 previous cases
of scalding coffee incidents at McDonalds before Liebeck's case.
McDonalds had settled many claim before but refused Liebeck's request
for $20,000 compensation, forcing the case into court. Lawyers found
that McDonalds makes its coffee 30-50 degrees hotter than other
restaurants, about 190 degrees. Doctors testified that it only takes 2-7
seconds to cause a third degree burn at 190 degrees. McDonalds knew its
coffee was exceptionally hot but testified that they had never consulted
with burn specialist. The Shriner Burn Institute had previously warned
McDonalds not to serve coffee above 130 degrees. And so the jury came
back with a decision- $160,000 for compensatory damages. But because
McDonalds was guilty of "willful, reckless, malicious or wanton conduct"
punitive damages were also applied. The jury set the award at $2.7
million. The judge then reduced the fine to less than half a million.
Ms. Liebeck then settled with McDonalds for a sum reported to be much
less than a half million dollars. McDonald's coffee is now sold at the
same temperature as most other restaurants.
--
- Billy
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

Gunner wrote:
On Feb 16, 4:11 pm, Nad R wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:35 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:

I am the one with the theatrics here! Give me credit where it is do...

its due ...dan
Idiot! I am saying teas are not like rolling cigarettes. Teas make it
easier to get adsorbed into the skin and can make you very sick, not just
ingestion.

again.... how much is that dan? Is it the ONE sig(sic) that your
teacher rubbed on the rabbits neck?

Like it needs no warning? I believe it does!

and so you have said.... among many other things

Common sense is almost non
existent in people, especially the young that may be on the naive side.
After all, if people had common sense they would NOT be smoking cigarettes,
getting drunk every other day, watching fox news or vote republican.
theatrics here

and you once again have proved your point.

Tobacco teas formulas are in this book. An interesting book, but not for
gardening.

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Exit-Pra...7899537&sr=1-1

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Feb 16, 2:25*pm, Bill who putters wrote:
In article
,



*You folks ever hear of blackleaf 40 ?


Well, yes I have Bill who putters. Have you ever heard of the Black
Leaf 40 posioning case?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5218a3.htm

Now please do not attempt to equate tobacco tea with something you
would drink, or even that you would give a damn. Hopefully there is
no one here that is that ignorant. If there is they should be
drinking the tea.

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Feb 16, 4:11 pm, Nad R wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:35 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunner wrote:

I am the one with the theatrics here! Give me credit where it is do...

its due ...dan
Idiot! I am saying teas are not like rolling cigarettes. Teas make it
easier to get adsorbed into the skin and can make you very sick, not just
ingestion.

again.... how much is that dan? Is it the ONE sig(sic) that your
teacher rubbed on the rabbits neck?

Like it needs no warning? I believe it does!

and so you have said.... among many other things

Common sense is almost non
existent in people, especially the young that may be on the naive side.
After all, if people had common sense they would NOT be smoking
cigarettes,
getting drunk every other day, watching fox news or vote republican.
theatrics here

and you once again have proved your point.

Tobacco teas formulas are in this book. An interesting book, but not for
gardening.

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Exit-Pra...-Assisted/dp/0
385336535/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297899537&sr=1-1

I don't know, Nad. The stuff doesn't look safe ;O)
--
- Billy
“When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.�
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

On Feb 16, 5:24*pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,
*"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Gunny wrote:
Ahh... I understand now. *Know it was the stupid rabbit David, *not
you. *I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label *so as to *know it might burn if you spill it on you.

Another urban myth for the chattering class.

...

Its a joke Dumbass!!! but one would expect you to try to p[sycho
babble and google BS in an attempt to make yourself look cute,
take your pick he http://www.rinkworks.com/said/warnings.shtml

but it that all you got?

On Feb 16, 5:08*pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,
*"David Hare-Scott" wrote:


Again, no one has given any specific amount. again you google wikiin
an attempt to justify nothing.

Do you know enough to not drink the tea or do you need to be warned
also?

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Feb 15, 5:35 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Gunny wrote:
DavidofWales

being aware that you can also poison yourself by ingesting the tea.

it is dangerous 'common sense' might be to handle it
without much thought like you handle other tobacco products.


Ahh... I understand now. Know it was the stupid rabbit David, not
you. I don't have you in the group that needs a hot coffee warning
label so as to know it might burn if you spill it on you.

Your comparison is way off target. We all have experience of hot drinks so
it is obvious from childhood that they can burn you. There is nothing
obvious about tobacco that says it is immediately dangerous. Common
experience is the reverse, that you can safely handle tobacco, my
grandfather did not put on gloves to roll a cigarette. Unless you had
experience of handling the tea and inadvertently given yourself a buzz how
would you know it was quite toxic and could be absorbed through the skin
unless someone told you?


think the man needed more than the warning you gave and he damn sure
didn't need the theatrics from some others. You gave the man an
honest effort as to an answer and qualified your concerns and your
perspective. I do understand your concern about toxicity but do fact
checking heat killing nicotine in cigarettes ok? not quite right.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

or are you quibbling because I said 'destroyed by heat' rather than
'burned'?

This point is also relevant to perceptions of harm. Smokers smoke
cigarettes all the time without apparently poisoning themselves with
nicotine, this contributes to the perception that tobacco is relatively
harmless in the short term. When you make tea with it the majority of
nicotine is not destroyed as in the burning of the cigarette.

D

40*60*mg (0.5-1.0*mg/kg) of nicotine can be a lethal dosage for adult
humans.

The amount of nicotine that smokers inhale from each cigarette is 1.5
milligrams per cigarette.

The amount of nicotine in a single cigarette is 8 to 9 milligrams on
average.

Nicotine affects almost every system in the body. When you take a puff,
your heart beats faster, your pulse quickens, your veins constrict, your
blood pressure increases. Your adrenal glands pump out adrenaline that
increases your heart rate, relaxes many of your smooth muscles, and
raises your metabolic rate.* Even the electrical activity in your brain
changes.

Totally avoidable.

Actually, it is a cautionary tale about trusting corporate media, even
if it isn't the most egregious Fox News. The same media that justified
our excuse for going to war, always has an agenda. Our news papers don't
give us the facts, they set the scene for us. They tell us that Chavez
is a dictator, Morales a drug addict, spending half the world's military
budget isn't excessive, and, now, that unions are the reason for our
economic collapse. Apparently it had nothing to do with Paulson and
Gleitner shoveling trillions of dollars to their friends on Wall Street,
when the whole debacle could have been controlled by adjusting the home
mortgages, which had been turned into toxic derivatives.

We really can't trust the mass media because 90% of it is owned by 5
corporations.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Al-Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/ ), which has aroused great
interest by being banned in Egypt due to its excellent coverage of the
uprising, is not itself carried by any American cable or satellite
company, but LINK TV (http://www.linktv.org/ ) has included regular
programming from Al-Jazeera and other foreign networks, and has recently
greatly increased the amount of news coverage it shows from Al-Jazeera.

Progressive news show Democracy Now! (http://www.democracynow.org/ )
remains the world's best news show, and of course includes great
coverage of the Egyptian uprising, including extra specials on the
subject. Democracy Now! is carried by LINK TV (http://www.linktv.org/ ),
Free Speech TV (http://www.freespeech.org/ ), and Pacifica Radio
(http://www.pacifica.org/ ), all of them worth checking out anyway.

Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com/ ) has been providing its usual
essential coverage of these happenings as well as other important
issues, as well as opinion pieces from across the spectrum. Common
Dreams (http://www.commondreams.org/ ), The Raw Story
(http://www.rawstory.com/ ), and AlterNet News (http://www.alternet.org/
) provide info and commentary from a progressive viewpoint, as does
Information Clearing House (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ ).
Progressive Indian site Towards a Counter Movement
(http://www.countercurrents.org/index.htm) has also given the uprising a
good deal of coverage.

From a right-libertarian viewpoint, Strike The Root
(http://www.strike-the-root.com/ ) and Rational Review
(http://rationalreview.news-digests.com/todays-edition ) are worth
checking out.

For left-libertarian/anarchist news and viewpoints, see Infoshop News
(http://news.infoshop.org/ ), Anarkismo
(http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php ), Anarchist News
(http://anarchistnews.org/ ), A-Infos (http://www.ainfos.ca/en/ ), and
the Center for a Stateless Society (http://c4ss.org/ ).

Middle east scholar Juan Cole's blog Informed Comment
(http://www.juancole.com/ ) provides excellent info and commentary on
this and other mideast issues.
--
- Billy
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html