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#1
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Newbie question about shade
I live in an area that is loaded with shade. I live in the city on a high
traffic road. The trees can't go. The only sunny spots are in the front, on the hill next to the road. Isn't there *any* way I can grow something? My backyard, where I want to grow things, has only spotty sunlight that moves throughout the day. There isn't a spot that has full sun, period. Are there any suggestions on what I can do, outside of using a community garden? The community garden is out. I truly hope someone has some good suggestions. TIA! Cindy |
#2
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Newbie question about shade
Cindy said:
I live in an area that is loaded with shade. I live in the city on a high traffic road. The trees can't go. The only sunny spots are in the front, on the hill next to the road. Isn't there *any* way I can grow something? My backyard, where I want to grow things, has only spotty sunlight that moves throughout the day. There isn't a spot that has full sun, period. Are there any suggestions on what I can do, outside of using a community garden? The community garden is out. 1) Terrace the hill and plant there. Tomatoes, peppers, okra and eggplants can be rather ornamental. I remember a garden planted between the front porch and the sidewalk in a tiny urban garden (the only sunny, southern exposure). 2) Limb up and/or thin the tree canopy as much as reasonably possible. Some edibles that can take part-shade are leeks, green onions, non-heading greens, and even (given just a bit of light) bush beans. Currants, gooseberries, raspberries and blackberries are fruits that can take some shade. 3) If you are at home all day (or can return during the day), plant in containers and move them around to the sunniest spots in the back yard. -- Pat in Plymouth MI Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (attributed to Don Marti) |
#3
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Newbie question about shade
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003 01:51:24 -0500, "Cindy"
wrote: I live in an area that is loaded with shade. I live in the city on a high traffic road. The trees can't go. The only sunny spots are in the front, on the hill next to the road. Isn't there *any* way I can grow something? My backyard, where I want to grow things, has only spotty sunlight that moves throughout the day. There isn't a spot that has full sun, period. Are there any suggestions on what I can do, outside of using a community garden? The community garden is out. I truly hope someone has some good suggestions. Have you a spot for container gardening? Maybe at the top of the hill? Last summer, we grew the following in containers: various lettuces green peppers bok choy collard greens cherry tomato beets basil I could have grown a lot more in containers, but I'm fortunate to also have a reasonable amount of flat sunny space for an in-ground garden. The container gardening was VERY successful and very easy to maintain, I'll grow more things in containers this year. Pat -- CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/ International: http://www.thehungersite.com/ |
#4
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Newbie question about shade
For vegetables ... you can always pick the sunniest convenient spot, and
plant a small experimental plot this year, with some of your favorites, and see how it goes. You might not get a tremendous yield, but chances are it would produce something, and then you'd know what your results may be. I've had good yield of beans and vine crops in a small shady plot hacked out of the woods. Your Mileage My Vary. It depends on the amount of available light coming through, the amount of ambient light, the crops you grow, the climate zone you're in, and the weather. If you can reduce the overhead canopy somewhat you'll get more light, as someone else already recommended. If you want tomatoes you might invest in red plastic mulch, to reflect as much back to the plant as possible. You can try it .... and be sure to report back to the newsgroup in the fall. "Cindy" wrote in message . .. I live in an area that is loaded with shade. I live in the city on a high traffic road. The trees can't go. The only sunny spots are in the front, on the hill next to the road. Isn't there *any* way I can grow something? My backyard, where I want to grow things, has only spotty sunlight that moves throughout the day. There isn't a spot that has full sun, period. Are there any suggestions on what I can do, outside of using a community garden? The community garden is out. I truly hope someone has some good suggestions. TIA! Cindy |
#5
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Newbie question about shade
Pat Meadows wrote:
On Sat, 1 Mar 2003 01:51:24 -0500, "Cindy" wrote: I live in an area that is loaded with shade. I live in the city on a high traffic road. The trees can't go. The only sunny spots are in the front, on the hill next to the road. Isn't there *any* way I can grow something? My backyard, where I want to grow things, has only spotty sunlight that moves throughout the day. There isn't a spot that has full sun, period. Are there any suggestions on what I can do, outside of using a community garden? The community garden is out. I truly hope someone has some good suggestions. Have you a spot for container gardening? Maybe at the top of the hill? Last summer, we grew the following in containers: various lettuces green peppers bok choy collard greens cherry tomato beets basil I could have grown a lot more in containers, but I'm fortunate to also have a reasonable amount of flat sunny space for an in-ground garden. The container gardening was VERY successful and very easy to maintain, I'll grow more things in containers this year. Pat Pat, what containers did you grow the lettuces in? How deep, how wide? How many times a day did you water, & what varieties? I know you had a success story with this, & I'd really like to know. DH is a salad lover. Thanks for input. Minteeleaf |
#6
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Newbie question about shade
On Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:03:56 -0500, Minteeleaf
wrote: Pat, what containers did you grow the lettuces in? How deep, how wide? How many times a day did you water, & what varieties? We had a stroke of really good luck and found a huge pile of big black plant pots at a dumpster - not pretty ones, functional ones. We had lots for ourselves, plus enough to share with a gardening friend here. There are two sizes: large and VERY large. I used them. The larger ones are probably about two feet deep and about 18" in diameter. I don't think you need most of that depth though, especially not for lettuce. I put pieces of window screen over the holes so the soil wouldn't wash out (I always do that with potted plants). That way, you don't need rocks in the bottom. In the absence of finding containers, I think I'd use 5-gallon buckets if I had any, or laundry baskets lined with a trash bag. Laundry baskets lined with a trash bag should work pretty well. Storage containers (if cheap or if you already have them) will also work well. Anything really. For lettuce, you should be able to use much smaller pots. I think even a gallon-milk jug (bottom half thereof) would grow leaf lettuce OK. We are also able to buy a pick-up truckload of spent-mushroom-soil very economically and I used that to fill the containers. It's great for container gardening - light and fluffy and all the plants thrived, almost beyond belief - everything did extremely well in it. If you are having a sizeable container garden, I'd think (unless you can find mushroom soil or something similar) that the cheapest way to fill the pots would be to buy 40-lb bags of top soil, and mix it about equally with peat moss and sand to lighten it up. If you buy potting soil, you'll go broke, besides potting soil alone is too heavy for containers, IMHO. You can buy a big compressed bag of peat moss pretty cheaply at garden centers and sand is cheap. The 40-lb bags of top soil are pretty reasonable too. I didn't need any fertilizer because the mushroom soil is very like composted manure (has a lot of composted manure in it), but with the sand/moss/top soil mix, you'd probably need to feed your plants occasionally. I think any balanced plant food (or even manure tea) would work. Miracle Grow isn't organic, but it is cheap and it works. I watered the pots every day (after things had grown a little)- but it was easy, easy. There's an outdoor tap on the deck, so I just used the hose to water. I bought a watering wand, to attach to the hose end, so I could put the water exactly where I wanted it. The watering wand is well worth the money (about $5.99, IIRC). Watering once a day was fine except for the Yellow Pear cherry tomato. It grew to be a HUGE plant and required watering three times a day in its black pot so we took a large Rubbermaid storage container (22 gallons) and punched holes in the bottom and transplanted the tomato plant - by then about 5 feet tall - to the Rubbermaid container. We had a tomato cage stuck in the container, for support. Then it was OK. (I hadn't intended to grow the Yellow Pear tomato in a container, it just sort of happened.) Varieties - I didn't keep track last year (I will this year). I'll tell you what I remember though...Peppers - we bought little plants, there were green peppers plus hot peppers, variety unknown. I grew Black-Seeded Simpson lettuce, also Tom Thumb (baby Boston-type), also a romaine. Bok choy: bought the seeds at Agway, they just said 'bok choy'. Beets: I think they were Early Wonder. Basil - bought it as a plant. Swiss Chard - the variety was Fordhook Giant. The Swiss chard, even growing in a pot, btw, stayed happy and productive until the temperature hit 12 F in November. I pulled the lettuce out of direct sun into the shaded part of the deck (part of our deck is roofed) on the hottest days. During hot spells, I just left it there in the shade for several days at a time. It did quite well like this. Otherwise, the answer for lettuce, IMHO, is succession plantings each week during spring and again in August for fall growing - but not in mid-summer. It doesn't like really hot weather. You can plant lettuce around things: around beets, for instance. A beet seed encircled by lettuce seeds. This makes a good use of the space. I'll also do this with carrots and lettuce this year. And of course, you can eat beet green thinnings - they're the best green of all, IMHO. Mintee, if you can get hold of a library book entitled 'Square Foot Gardening' by Mel Bartholomew, a lot of his ideas are adaptable to container gardening. You can space things VERY closely in containers, because they're having such ideal conditions. There's a website too: http://www.squarefootgardening.com I found that cabbage moths did find the plants in containers and they ate the collards and some of the bok choy (we'd already had a lot of the bok choy ourselves). This year, I've bought floating row cover (Reemay) and I'll cover my cabbage family plants with this in an attempt to foil the cabbage moths. I bought it at either Gardens Alive or Mellingers, I can't remember which. (URLs are the obvious ones in each case.) I had no other insect pests at all in the container garden. That's about it, I think. Have fun with it! Ooops, I see now that you were specifically asking about lettuce - well ... you'll probably have more info here than you wanted... 'cause I've written about other things too. Oh well. Better too much info than too little. Pat -- CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/ International: http://www.thehungersite.com/ |
#7
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Newbie question about shade
On Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:03:56 -0500, Minteeleaf
wrote: Pat, what containers did you grow the lettuces in? How deep, how wide? How many times a day did you water, & what varieties? We had a stroke of really good luck and found a huge pile of big black plant pots at a dumpster - not pretty ones, functional ones. We had lots for ourselves, plus enough to share with a gardening friend here. There are two sizes: large and VERY large. I used them. The larger ones are probably about two feet deep and about 18" in diameter. I don't think you need most of that depth though, especially not for lettuce. I put pieces of window screen over the holes so the soil wouldn't wash out (I always do that with potted plants). That way, you don't need rocks in the bottom. In the absence of finding containers, I think I'd use 5-gallon buckets if I had any, or laundry baskets lined with a trash bag. Laundry baskets lined with a trash bag should work pretty well. Storage containers (if cheap or if you already have them) will also work well. Anything really. For lettuce, you should be able to use much smaller pots. I think even a gallon-milk jug (bottom half thereof) would grow leaf lettuce OK. We are also able to buy a pick-up truckload of spent-mushroom-soil very economically and I used that to fill the containers. It's great for container gardening - light and fluffy and all the plants thrived, almost beyond belief - everything did extremely well in it. If you are having a sizeable container garden, I'd think (unless you can find mushroom soil or something similar) that the cheapest way to fill the pots would be to buy 40-lb bags of top soil, and mix it about equally with peat moss and sand to lighten it up. If you buy potting soil, you'll go broke, besides potting soil alone is too heavy for containers, IMHO. You can buy a big compressed bag of peat moss pretty cheaply at garden centers and sand is cheap. The 40-lb bags of top soil are pretty reasonable too. I didn't need any fertilizer because the mushroom soil is very like composted manure (has a lot of composted manure in it), but with the sand/moss/top soil mix, you'd probably need to feed your plants occasionally. I think any balanced plant food (or even manure tea) would work. Miracle Grow isn't organic, but it is cheap and it works. I watered the pots every day (after things had grown a little)- but it was easy, easy. There's an outdoor tap on the deck, so I just used the hose to water. I bought a watering wand, to attach to the hose end, so I could put the water exactly where I wanted it. The watering wand is well worth the money (about $5.99, IIRC). Watering once a day was fine except for the Yellow Pear cherry tomato. It grew to be a HUGE plant and required watering three times a day in its black pot so we took a large Rubbermaid storage container (22 gallons) and punched holes in the bottom and transplanted the tomato plant - by then about 5 feet tall - to the Rubbermaid container. We had a tomato cage stuck in the container, for support. Then it was OK. (I hadn't intended to grow the Yellow Pear tomato in a container, it just sort of happened.) Varieties - I didn't keep track last year (I will this year). I'll tell you what I remember though...Peppers - we bought little plants, there were green peppers plus hot peppers, variety unknown. I grew Black-Seeded Simpson lettuce, also Tom Thumb (baby Boston-type), also a romaine. Bok choy: bought the seeds at Agway, they just said 'bok choy'. Beets: I think they were Early Wonder. Basil - bought it as a plant. Swiss Chard - the variety was Fordhook Giant. The Swiss chard, even growing in a pot, btw, stayed happy and productive until the temperature hit 12 F in November. I pulled the lettuce out of direct sun into the shaded part of the deck (part of our deck is roofed) on the hottest days. During hot spells, I just left it there in the shade for several days at a time. It did quite well like this. Otherwise, the answer for lettuce, IMHO, is succession plantings each week during spring and again in August for fall growing - but not in mid-summer. It doesn't like really hot weather. You can plant lettuce around things: around beets, for instance. A beet seed encircled by lettuce seeds. This makes a good use of the space. I'll also do this with carrots and lettuce this year. And of course, you can eat beet green thinnings - they're the best green of all, IMHO. Mintee, if you can get hold of a library book entitled 'Square Foot Gardening' by Mel Bartholomew, a lot of his ideas are adaptable to container gardening. You can space things VERY closely in containers, because they're having such ideal conditions. There's a website too: http://www.squarefootgardening.com I found that cabbage moths did find the plants in containers and they ate the collards and some of the bok choy (we'd already had a lot of the bok choy ourselves). This year, I've bought floating row cover (Reemay) and I'll cover my cabbage family plants with this in an attempt to foil the cabbage moths. I bought it at either Gardens Alive or Mellingers, I can't remember which. (URLs are the obvious ones in each case.) I had no other insect pests at all in the container garden. That's about it, I think. Have fun with it! Ooops, I see now that you were specifically asking about lettuce - well ... you'll probably have more info here than you wanted... 'cause I've written about other things too. Oh well. Better too much info than too little. Pat -- CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/ International: http://www.thehungersite.com/ |
#8
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Newbie question about shade
Pat Meadows wrote:
On Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:03:56 -0500, Minteeleaf wrote: Pat, what containers did you grow the lettuces in? How deep, how wide? How many times a day did you water, & what varieties? We had a stroke of really good luck and found a huge pile of big black plant pots at a dumpster - not pretty ones, functional ones. We had lots for ourselves, plus enough to share with a gardening friend here. There are two sizes: large and VERY large. I used them. snip Thanks, Pat. I have a lot of lettuce seed, so I'll try it. I've grown a number of things in containers, but wasn't sure about lettuces. Your info is useful. I still wish I had had a great find like your containers. You really got a blessing there. Minteeleaf |
#9
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Newbie question about shade
On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 09:39:53 -0500, Minteeleaf
wrote: Thanks, Pat. I have a lot of lettuce seed, so I'll try it. I've grown a number of things in containers, but wasn't sure about lettuces. Your info is useful. I'm sure your greatest problem - where you live - will be heat. If you get it planted very early and again very late, you should be able to have lovely lettuce. It's a treat too, I really enjoyed it last summer: nice fresh salad each day! With basil and green peppers and cukes and tomatoes (later in the season) - all from the garden. I still wish I had had a great find like your containers. You really got a blessing there. We sure did. You know, I've seen pictures of lettuce growing (under lights) in a refrigerator drawer: you know, the bottom drawers in a fridge. This wouldn't work well outside because it should have drainage holes, but I bet you could grow lettuce nicely in a plastic sweater box or other storage container if you drill holes in it first. It hasn't got a lot of roots, so it doesn't need a significant depth of soil. Pat -- CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/ International: http://www.thehungersite.com/ |
#10
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Newbie question about shade
No, I don't have any suggestion, being a novice in this business. I was just perusing gardening books in the local Barnes & Noble, and found a few titles that might be of interest to you: (Better Homes and Gardens) step-by-step shade gardens, Patricia A. Taylor (Sunset) Gardening with Shade: Ideas for Planning & Planting, Editors of Sunset Books (Ortho's All About) Shade Gardening, Jo Kellum (Taylor's Guide to) Shade Gardening, Frances Tenenbaum (Editor) I don't know if these are any good, but at least you can go to Amazon.com and read the reviews there. Or hang out here for a little while and maybe the inhabitants of this newsgroup will care to comment. Best luck. Cindy wrote: I live in an area that is loaded with shade. I live in the city on a high traffic road. The trees can't go. The only sunny spots are in the front, on the hill next to the road. Isn't there *any* way I can grow something? My backyard, where I want to grow things, has only spotty sunlight that moves throughout the day. There isn't a spot that has full sun, period. Are there any suggestions on what I can do, outside of using a community garden? The community garden is out. I truly hope someone has some good suggestions. TIA! Cindy |
#11
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Newbie question about shade
For vegetables ... you can always pick the sunniest convenient spot, and
plant a small experimental plot this year, with some of your favorites, and see how it goes. You might not get a tremendous yield, but chances are it would produce something, and then you'd know what your results may be. I've had good yield of beans and vine crops in a small shady plot hacked out of the woods. Your Mileage My Vary. It depends on the amount of available light coming through, the amount of ambient light, the crops you grow, the climate zone you're in, and the weather. If you can reduce the overhead canopy somewhat you'll get more light, as someone else already recommended. If you want tomatoes you might invest in red plastic mulch, to reflect as much back to the plant as possible. You can try it .... and be sure to report back to the newsgroup in the fall. I was kind of thinking about trying a few various things and seeing what works. I like the container idea Pat had, but we're not here during the day. I don't like putting anything next to the road because it's a high traffic road and you won't *believe* the litter folks thoughtlessly throw out in MY yard! It's very disheartening really. I'd really like to have a community garden but there aren't any close by where I could conveniently go and work in it. I would just go every now and then and that's simply not enough. Anyhow, thanks to all for the ideas and if there are any further ideas... I'm all ears. Cindy |
#12
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Newbie question about shade
Are you home in the sunlight hours?
I have seen people plant entire gardens on wheels for just this reason. Perhaps the trees can't go as you wish to keep them for the noise barrier but is there any reason you can not replace them with a taller more slender tree? More and more people are starting to plant bamboo trees (okay so it's more like a grass that gets REAL TALL) for just this reason. They grow thick and dense, yet straight up. I don't know how serious you are about gardening, but my neighbor loves walnut trees and planted them so dense he had to move his garden to the roof of his house. He was a carpenter and added some real nice looking systems up there bordered with rain gutters and heavy duty plastic under the plants to force the excess water to run into the gutter systems back down to the ground. It's almost English Cottage looking in the summer because his roof is ablaze with plants. Not my cup of tea but it does look nice not cluttered. Timber www.timberslodge.net ....a Step Through Time "Cindy" wrote in message . .. I live in an area that is loaded with shade. I live in the city on a high traffic road. The trees can't go. The only sunny spots are in the front, on the hill next to the road. Isn't there *any* way I can grow something? My backyard, where I want to grow things, has only spotty sunlight that moves throughout the day. There isn't a spot that has full sun, period. Are there any suggestions on what I can do, outside of using a community garden? The community garden is out. I truly hope someone has some good suggestions. TIA! Cindy |
#13
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Newbie question about shade
Timber wrote:
Are you home in the sunlight hours? I have seen people plant entire gardens on wheels for just this reason. Can you describe this thoroughly please? What containers, what plants, how did it work? Minteeleaf |
#14
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Newbie question about shade
The containers on wheels?
They are easy, you simply take the raised bed principle, build supporting decks, add commercial casters with locking wheels (I have seen these at the local hardware store for around $5.00 each some as costly as $25. I guess it would depend upon the weight and size of the overall bed). Add a lighter weight soil base and poof, you have a container garden which moves around on wheels. If you are going to do this I would suggest you also put in a metal clamp type bracket on one end of the decking and fashion a pulling handle out of anything. Though Many don't as you have the raised bed to perform this function. I simply placed large U-bolts onto mine as I made them with Pond Liner. If you are going to do this keep in mind it's not normal soil and the water has to go somewhere. Thus, I cut into the pond liner small holes (one every two feet) and obtained pond specific drain plumbing parts--this way I can unscrew the cap and allow any extra water on the bottom to drain out. You seal it with a special liner silicone glue which is available in the same isle as the liner. I might suggest you attach a small chain to the cap and secure the chain to the support decking as I lost several caps and they can be difficult to find. I have seen many configurations of these put together but I don't think that a wood base would give the durability to last for many more than two or three seasons without much work. A friend of mine made them out of acrylic sheets and has used these for nearly ten years but he makes large Aquarium so the cost is a little lower for him and he knows how to brace the acrylic sheets properly---I don't. I have even seen people raise corn in moving container systems which support four rows of corn. I myself don't need a system like this but did experiment with a heavy duty pond liner which I applied over a wood frame attached to a castered base. In this I raised tomato plants for a single season. I do however make planters out of the pond liners which I fill with flowers. If you have seen those 'flowering pouches' you will know what I mean. These I string over trestles and Sun Patio roofing systems, cut holes into the liner and plant trailing flowers from them. This allows for an entire 'roof' as it were filled with cascading flowers everywhere. The neat thing about Pond Liner is that it is built to take the abuse and weight you are putting it through. Not to mention the ability to sculpt it into what ever shape you may desire. As with anything it's only limitations are your imagination. Keep in mind that I would not suggest being frugal and purchasing the thinner pond liner, spend the few extra dollars and purchase a thicker liner. Timber www.timberslodge.net ....a Step Through Time "Minteeleaf" wrote in message ... Timber wrote: Are you home in the sunlight hours? I have seen people plant entire gardens on wheels for just this reason. Can you describe this thoroughly please? What containers, what plants, how did it work? Minteeleaf |
#15
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Newbie question about shade
If you wanted to know about the roof system, I can tell you it's very
interesting! He built rows of wood planters (he has wood tiles not fiberglass or pottery tiles for shingles) He gives them a good sealing each spring. I would suggest you check with an architect first for weight limitations on your roof prior to thinking about this as it would be a very sad day when your roof garden comes crashing down on your house! He had to install additional bracing in his attic due to the additional weight. Following his roof lines he built rows much like a staircase with walking area's in between each row. 6" above the roof he built metal decks and angled them the same slope of his roof. To this metal deck he attached on the lower end, rain gutters which all drain on a specific side and attached these into his existing gutter system. On top of his metal decks he built wood supports I just called him and he said these sit only 2" above the metal deck. This is where he built his wood planters. He staggered the sizes, the ones closest to the ground are only 6" tall by 12" wide. He grows lettuce and radishes in the more shallow ones. He graduated the sizes 6" for each row adding 2" of width for each 6" in height. The top row (tallest point of his roof) is only 2.5' tall--in this he plants his melons and takes care to keep these pruned. Also the top row of his north side he plants corn but he says it doesn't do very well as it only supports 2 rows of corn staggered in the same container. He says this year he is going to install a misting system for watering but in the past he has drug a hose around. Due to his time required up on his roof, he broke down last season and built a deck for entertaining. This is the same height as the lowest end of his roof. A barbeque deck below the upper deck (which his wife calls her tanning deck). The lower deck is in full shade and is very nice to see! If only I had his talent for building-----but I don't! He wants to warn anyone thinking about doing this that the roof system cost him his retirement funds. Though it did give him the additional 6,000 square feet of garden space if he covered his entire roof but he has only done the back half of the house. Also he ran into some zoning issues with the city and all us neighbors had to sign a letter for the city for him to be able to do it. He plants anything he can get his hands on but says the best plants are plants which don't require more than one row for correct pollination, Beets, carrots, radish, lettuce, cabbage, peppers, egg plant---anything he doesn't have to stake as he hasn't come up with an artful way to support these without looking trashy. Timber www.timberslodge.net ....a Step Through Time "Minteeleaf" wrote in message ... Timber wrote: Are you home in the sunlight hours? I have seen people plant entire gardens on wheels for just this reason. Can you describe this thoroughly please? What containers, what plants, how did it work? Minteeleaf |
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