Charlie wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 May 2009 22:28:23 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:


Charlie wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 6 May 2009 20:19:34 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:


"Phisherman" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:

I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses.

I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous.

Anything misused can be dangerous. For example, water can be very
dangerous.


I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the
results.


Not all systemic products are sprayed. Spraying can be hazardous due
to inhalation.


Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so
dangerous
to humans and pets?

There are Rose Food/Systemic products that are applied to the soil,
scratched in and the pesticide is taken up by the roots.

I use the Ortho product (Bayer makes one too) on my roses only. I am
willing to try other remedies, that is, if there is one that I have
not tried. Aphids are hard to control.




Thanks,

Freckles

I have ordered Bayer's systemic pesticide/food spikes.

Thanks for supporting a company that is poisoning my grandchildren and
the pollinators and a lot of other living things.


Supposedly one just shoves a spike into the ground next to the rose and
it
will kill pests and feed the plant for up to 2 months.

Sprays of all kinds bother me. The thought of breathing any of them
scares
me.

For Eff's sake......putting them in the water supply doesn't scare
you?

If the spikes work, I think that will be the easiest and safest way to
take
care of my roses.

Educate yourself, and/or quit trying to grow stuff that perhaps
shouldn't be grown. Damn.

If you think you have a problen with Bayer and their products complain to
your congressmen and Senators.



Nah, I don't *think* I have a problem with Bayer and their products, I
*do* have a problem with them. Been complaining to representatives
for years and you see where we are.

Listen kid, you need to educate yourself about the political and
economic wonders of the U$ and the world, as well as several other
subjects.

You know anything about the history of Bayer, their products, their
financial and political ties, yada yada? I doubt it.

Hmmm...now that you mention it, should I start writing my
congresscritters about the condition of education and independent
thinking in the U$?

Now, get off the damned Usenet and go resume your studies, kid.

Charlie

Thanks for calling me kid, but since I'm 71 I don't think the shoe fits. I
also have an extensive education including academics and personal
experiences.

I wonder how much better off we would all be if fanatics like your self
would quit disrupting scientist and let them conduct humane experiments on
animals. Perhaps they could find cures for many horrible diseases and even
find products that could replace some of the "dangerous" chemicals you seem
so concerned about.

But a fanatic is a fanatic no matter their cause.

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 May 2009 23:29:40 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:


Charlie wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 6 May 2009 22:28:23 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:


Charlie wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 6 May 2009 20:19:34 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:


"Phisherman" wrote in message
news:a99405lomiq2gqep6ei6jua9qtupqqntos@4ax. com...
On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:

I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses.

I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous.

Anything misused can be dangerous. For example, water can be very
dangerous.


I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the
results.


Not all systemic products are sprayed. Spraying can be hazardous
due
to inhalation.


Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so
dangerous
to humans and pets?

There are Rose Food/Systemic products that are applied to the soil,
scratched in and the pesticide is taken up by the roots.

I use the Ortho product (Bayer makes one too) on my roses only. I
am
willing to try other remedies, that is, if there is one that I have
not tried. Aphids are hard to control.




Thanks,

Freckles

I have ordered Bayer's systemic pesticide/food spikes.

Thanks for supporting a company that is poisoning my grandchildren and
the pollinators and a lot of other living things.


Supposedly one just shoves a spike into the ground next to the rose
and
it
will kill pests and feed the plant for up to 2 months.

Sprays of all kinds bother me. The thought of breathing any of them
scares
me.

For Eff's sake......putting them in the water supply doesn't scare
you?

If the spikes work, I think that will be the easiest and safest way to
take
care of my roses.

Educate yourself, and/or quit trying to grow stuff that perhaps
shouldn't be grown. Damn.

If you think you have a problen with Bayer and their products complain
to
your congressmen and Senators.



Nah, I don't *think* I have a problem with Bayer and their products, I
*do* have a problem with them. Been complaining to representatives
for years and you see where we are.

Listen kid, you need to educate yourself about the political and
economic wonders of the U$ and the world, as well as several other
subjects.

You know anything about the history of Bayer, their products, their
financial and political ties, yada yada? I doubt it.

Hmmm...now that you mention it, should I start writing my
congresscritters about the condition of education and independent
thinking in the U$?

Now, get off the damned Usenet and go resume your studies, kid.

Charlie

Thanks for calling me kid, but since I'm 71 I don't think the shoe fits. I
also have an extensive education including academics and personal
experiences.

Uh, yeah....ok, if you say so. I guess I wasn't able to glean that
from your, uh, responses.

I wonder how much better off we would all be if fanatics like your self
would quit disrupting scientist and let them conduct humane experiments on
animals. Perhaps they could find cures for many horrible diseases and even
find products that could replace some of the "dangerous" chemicals you
seem
so concerned about.

Thank you for providing this key to understanding more about from
whence you cometh. I'm even less impressed now.

Was I trying to impress you? Why? You are an ignorant twit.

But a fanatic is a fanatic no matter their cause.


See previous response for qualifiers for fanatic....uncritical,
unreasoning......

Charlie

On 5/6/2009 10:03 PM, Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:58:36 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

No, toxics are not the answer to all questions about why bad things
happen. You can't blame insecticides for every bad thing.
You're right. People kill people.

Ignorance kills people. And greed.

He is concerned about *his* tortoise, doesn't want to poison it with
toxins, but has no concerns about systemically poisoning children via
the groundwater, etc.

Typical. All about me and mine, who gives a shit about them. Feh!

Charlie


As I already wrote, NATURAL minerals have made the ground water in this
area naturally toxic. It is unfit for irrigating crops, let alone
drinking by humans or animals.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

"Freckles" wrote
"Jangchub" wrote

Left in tact. Now for another moronic story. **** that puta who gave
her Sevin.


Do you think the chemicals used to fight cancer are safe?



Why are you asking someone who thinks *intact* is two words, knows to spell
******, thinks others are *moronic*, and can't properly construct a
sentence?

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...
"Freckles" wrote
"Jangchub" wrote

Left in tact. Now for another moronic story. **** that puta who gave
her Sevin.


Do you think the chemicals used to fight cancer are safe?



Why are you asking someone who thinks *intact* is two words, knows to
spell ******, thinks others are *moronic*, and can't properly construct a
sentence?

That was a mistake, wasn't it?

"Sheila" wrote
brooklyn1 wrote:
"Sheila" wrote:
Well, we didn't like deer even before we moved here.


What's not to like... deer are gentle creatures, they bother no one... I
like having deer around. Besides, they supply free fertilizer.


They may supply free fertilizer, but you won't have anything to fertilize.


I only wish they'd eat more and faster, I'd have less to mow.

And this is about as organic as it gets:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2w3ukqd.jpg

I don't know... nothing to fertilize... looks mighty green to me:
http://i43.tinypic.com/w1a1x3.jpg

And I can plant whatever I want and do, just not what the critters like
where they can get to it... do you leave big bowls of M&Ms out where your
obese kids can get to it, jugs of booze where your alkie hubby can get to
it, would you leave tonight's burgers out where your dog can get to it... of
course not, and only an idiot would plant deer's favorite greenery within
their easy access. And if you don't like the deer you should have stayed in
your inner city tenement appartment, the muggers wouldn't bother your potted
fern.

brooklyn1 wrote:
"Sheila" wrote
brooklyn1 wrote:
"Sheila" wrote:
Well, we didn't like deer even before we moved here.


What's not to like... deer are gentle creatures, they bother no one... I
like having deer around. Besides, they supply free fertilizer.

They may supply free fertilizer, but you won't have anything to fertilize.


I only wish they'd eat more and faster, I'd have less to mow.

And this is about as organic as it gets:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2w3ukqd.jpg

I don't know... nothing to fertilize... looks mighty green to me:
http://i43.tinypic.com/w1a1x3.jpg

And I can plant whatever I want and do, just not what the critters like
where they can get to it... do you leave big bowls of M&Ms out where your
obese kids can get to it, jugs of booze where your alkie hubby can get to
it, would you leave tonight's burgers out where your dog can get to it... of
course not, and only an idiot would plant deer's favorite greenery within
their easy access. And if you don't like the deer you should have stayed in
your inner city tenement appartment, the muggers wouldn't bother your potted
fern.



Sorry, I never lived in an inner city tenement apartment, did you?

It looks to me like you have to have fences around what you plant too,
at least we don't have to fence our new trees.

--
Sheila
http://swdalton.com

On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:07:16 -0400, Phisherman
wrote:

On Tue, 05 May 2009 19:11:34 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:

I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses.

I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous.

I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results.

Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous
to humans and pets?

Thanks,

Freckles

I've planted garlic around the roses with good success. Definitely kid
and pet friendly.

Kate


Kate, you are extra fortunate to have garlic that works. I have a
row of garlic in front of my roses, it dies to the ground in June but
comes back in January. It is the companion plant. It does nothing
to stop the aphids, not sure about deer or vampires though.

I circle the roses with garlic and then try to remember not to weed
them out in the Spring. The wild roses I didn't and one is eaten up,
the other ok and closest to the garlic.

Off I go to gather plantain and then mow - it's not raining today!

Happy gardening!

Kate

"Sheila" wrote:

at least we don't have to fence our new trees.



Depends on the tree and its size... fruit trees, whether ornamental or not,
are at greater risk... but after like five years the saplings grow tall
enough that the fences can be removed. I don't mind the fences, if it's
something I want to grow and don't want eaten by critters then I fence...
there'd be no way for me to have a vegetable garden otherwise. And still
there are the birds, so I also net. I'm not into conservatory gardening.

On 5/7/2009 6:54 AM, Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:28:04 -0700, see Organization header
(see Organization header)" wrote:

On 5/6/2009 10:03 PM, Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:58:36 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

No, toxics are not the answer to all questions about why bad things
happen. You can't blame insecticides for every bad thing.
You're right. People kill people.
Ignorance kills people. And greed.

He is concerned about *his* tortoise, doesn't want to poison it with
toxins, but has no concerns about systemically poisoning children via
the groundwater, etc.

Typical. All about me and mine, who gives a shit about them. Feh!

Charlie

As I already wrote, NATURAL minerals have made the ground water in this
area naturally toxic. It is unfit for irrigating crops, let alone
drinking by humans or animals.

Which minerals are causing the toxicity and is their source naturally
occuring or a result of man's activity?

Mostly NATURAL sufites and sulfates. (How many times do I have to say
that they occur naturally?) There are also nodules of phosphate that
explode spontaneously.

When schools were built in my community, the grading contractor had to
dig down about 5 ft and haul away the native soil. Then, he had to
bring in soil from elsewhere to fill the holes. It was considered
unsafe to build a school on the native soil.

During a drought about 20 years ago, it was suggested to augment our
water supply (imported from northern California) with well water. Even
mixing only 1 part well water with 9 parts imported water would yield a
witch's brew that could not be used for drinking.

Not all toxics in our environment are the result of human activity.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

In article ,
"Freckles" wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 May 2009 20:30:04 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote:


I just order some Bayer insect control plus fertilizer plant spikes which
seem to be just what I want.

Bayer.....patoooie and effem. Baby and bee killing bastids. I worked
for those effers for four years in the late seventies and early
eighties, (and am still ashamed to admit to being a Magic Christian
during that period) and they dealt death. Worse now.


I've been watching the organic vs. chemical debate for years. I have tried
to go organic, but with very limited success.

Then your processes and understanding were/are flawed.

The plant stakes I've ordered
seem safe enough and they are not too expensive. Much of the organic
materials I've used were a lot more expensive than chemicals and in many
cases I needed to use much more of them to get the same results I could
have
gotten with a few chemicals.

Less more, less more....."Better Things for Better Living...Through
Chemistry." DuPont (and dow and monsatano and on and on)

You don't just substitute organic "stuff" for deadly stuff to achieve
health and balance.

Your understanding of soil health and organic is lacking.


If my grand dad had tried to go organic on our farm, we would have
starved.

FKN bullshit. You don't understand organic and/or soil health.

How old are you? When was your grand-dad "farming"?

Educate yourself. Make a commitment to planetary health and view your
prcesses in that light. I'm fkn sick of excuses like, I grow stuff
that shouldn't be grown here, so I gotta use poison, or it's too much
work and expense to grow safe and healthy food. Gawd, the list goes
on and on and on......ad nauseum.

What the hell is wrong with all you chemical-head ignoramuses?

Charlie

Another ignorant fanatic heard from!

If it were not for those dangerous chemicals, as you like to call them,
there would be even more millions of people starving. than there are now.

Most, if not all, of the medicines used to combat illnesses and ailments are
dangerous, but we still take them. I guess you refrain from taking such
medicines because of their harm to the environment. Ha

Maybe you think organic farmers can supply enough food to feed the world.
How ignorant!

Besides, this is a gardening newsgroup, not an organic only group. If you
don't like what you read here, go elsewhere and stick your head in the sand
there.

In other words get lost asshole!



Ah, another Monsanto acolyte comes out of the closet spewing the company
line.
So, if what you say is true, then you should be able to give us some web
sites that support, what you will find is a totally flawed, contention.
There may be, on occasion, a use for some pesticide or chemfert but I've
never encountered it. A sane person would go organic and IPM first.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article ,
see Organization header (see Organization
header)" wrote:

As I already wrote, NATURAL minerals have made the ground water in this
area naturally toxic. It is unfit for irrigating crops, let alone
drinking by humans or animals.

So we presume that extends to grubs and worms, and nematodes and
protozoa, and bacteria and fungi, and non-crop plants? The though of
amelioration never crossed your mind? Just adding to the pollution?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article ,
see Organization header (see Organization
header)" wrote:

No, I'm
not concerned at all about its effect on ground water. Because of
NATURAL minerals, the ground water in my area is toxic and unfit even
for irrigation, let alone unfit for human or animal ingestion.

Got your excuse all memorized, huh?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article ,
"Freckles" wrote:

Do you think the chemicals used to fight cancer are safe?

The question is do you think at all?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article ,
"brooklyn1" wrote:

"Freckles" wrote
"Jangchub" wrote

Left in tact. Now for another moronic story. **** that puta who gave
her Sevin.


Do you think the chemicals used to fight cancer are safe?



Why are you asking someone who thinks *intact* is two words, knows to spell
******, thinks others are *moronic*, and can't properly construct a
sentence?

Shelly, did you mean to say,"knows [how] to spell "****", yada, yada,
and can't properly construct a sentence?

Looks like you could do with a little remedial tune-up your self,
mister-let-me-throw-the-first-stone.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html