zxcvbob wrote:
Frank McElrath wrote:
I have a bad clover problem here in the DC area. As much as I hate to
use chemicals, I may have to. We are planning to take a 3 week
vacation starting at the beginning of August.

Would I do damage to my grass if I sprayed a weedkiller on right
before we left, so as to minimize our exposure to it?



Fertilize lightly with a high-nitrogen fertilizer with no phosphorus.
Keep the grass mowed, and don't water it too much. (clover likes moist,
low-nitrogen soil with lots of phosphorus.) The grass should overtake
the clover in the hot summer months.

I agree with this completely. Clover, in general, indicates soil with
poor nutrient level, especially nitrogen. Farmers of yesteryear knew
soils where clover and Queen Anne's lace thrived were nutrient poor, and
they would either compensate with green or conventional manures to be
able to plant crops there, or simply would not use that piece of land
for cropping. Improve the conditions for the lawn grass, and the clover
will get choked out automatically.


If you just have to spray something, try something containing
dicamba or
triclopyr.


Also true, but consider spraying as an absolute LAST resort, please.


Tony

Tony wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
Frank McElrath wrote:
I have a bad clover problem here in the DC area. As much as I hate
to use chemicals, I may have to. We are planning to take a 3 week
vacation starting at the beginning of August.

Would I do damage to my grass if I sprayed a weedkiller on right
before we left, so as to minimize our exposure to it?



Fertilize lightly with a high-nitrogen fertilizer with no phosphorus.
Keep the grass mowed, and don't water it too much. (clover likes
moist, low-nitrogen soil with lots of phosphorus.) The grass should
overtake the clover in the hot summer months.

I agree with this completely. Clover, in general, indicates soil with
poor nutrient level, especially nitrogen.

Not so. Here it is part of a mixed pasture that includes some heavy feeders
who like nitrogen, eg kikuyu.

Farmers of yesteryear knew
soils where clover and Queen Anne's lace thrived were nutrient poor,
and they would either compensate with green or conventional manures
to be able to plant crops there, or simply would not use that piece
of land for cropping.

Here clover is seen as a bonus and it is encouraged and in some cases seeded
into the pasture. It is nutritious and loved by both horses and cattle. If
your pasture grows clover you certainly would use that land.

Improve the conditions for the lawn grass, and
the clover will get choked out automatically.



Not necessarily. At certain seasons clover grows better than grass at
others not so well. I have had clover in the spring so thick the pasture
looked white and you could hear the hum of the bees wherever you went.
Later in the year the same paddock produced abundant grass as the clover
retreated, the paddock has dense coverage (except in drought) and shows no
sign of choking out the clover which comes back each year.

You are giving clover a bad reputation which is not deserved but I doubt the
OP is concerned about grazing animals so this is not really that relevant.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Tony wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
Frank McElrath wrote:
I have a bad clover problem here in the DC area. As much as I hate
to use chemicals, I may have to. We are planning to take a 3 week
vacation starting at the beginning of August.

Would I do damage to my grass if I sprayed a weedkiller on right
before we left, so as to minimize our exposure to it?



Fertilize lightly with a high-nitrogen fertilizer with no phosphorus.
Keep the grass mowed, and don't water it too much. (clover likes
moist, low-nitrogen soil with lots of phosphorus.) The grass should
overtake the clover in the hot summer months.

I agree with this completely. Clover, in general, indicates soil with
poor nutrient level, especially nitrogen.

Not so. Here it is part of a mixed pasture that includes some heavy feeders
who like nitrogen, eg kikuyu.

Farmers of yesteryear knew
soils where clover and Queen Anne's lace thrived were nutrient poor,
and they would either compensate with green or conventional manures
to be able to plant crops there, or simply would not use that piece
of land for cropping.

Here clover is seen as a bonus and it is encouraged and in some cases seeded
into the pasture. It is nutritious and loved by both horses and cattle. If
your pasture grows clover you certainly would use that land.

Improve the conditions for the lawn grass, and
the clover will get choked out automatically.



Not necessarily. At certain seasons clover grows better than grass at
others not so well. I have had clover in the spring so thick the pasture
looked white and you could hear the hum of the bees wherever you went.
Later in the year the same paddock produced abundant grass as the clover
retreated, the paddock has dense coverage (except in drought) and shows no
sign of choking out the clover which comes back each year.

You are giving clover a bad reputation which is not deserved but I doubt the
OP is concerned about grazing animals so this is not really that relevant.

David

David is correct. Clover helps in fixing nitrogen to the soil therefore
helps the lawn. The clover will retreat and lawn should look better.

I find when using the so called weed and feed stuff the lawn looks worse
over the years for a short term benefit. I am sure the good bugs do not
like herbicides also. The the bad bugs move in like grubs and look out.
Lawn addicted to chemicals.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Tony wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:

Farmers of yesteryear knew
soils where clover and Queen Anne's lace thrived were nutrient poor,

????? Since clover is a nitorgen fixer, the soil where clover was growing
should be a prime place to plant.

and they would either compensate with green or conventional manures
to be able to plant crops there, or simply would not use that piece
of land for cropping.

Here clover is seen as a bonus and it is encouraged and in some cases
seeded into the pasture. It is nutritious and loved by both horses and
cattle. If your pasture grows clover you certainly would use that land.

Yup.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
u...
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Tony wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:

Farmers of yesteryear knew
soils where clover and Queen Anne's lace thrived were nutrient poor,

????? Since clover is a nitorgen fixer, the soil where clover was growing
should be a prime place to plant.

absolutely, farmers use clover in paddocks as a nitrogen fixer. Its good
stuff.

rob

FarmI ask@itshall be given wrote:
????? Since clover is a nitorgen fixer, the soil where clover was growing
should be a prime place to plant.

That may be, *after* the clover has fixed nitrogen for a season or two.

Clover easily outcompetes grasses where the soil has very low nitrogen
but ample water. I am dealing with a lawn that was established decades
ago on sterile fill dirt, no topsoil. The lawn was treated all those
years with chemical fertilizers and weed killers, and had all clippings
removed to the local landfill, so it never developed any topsoil nor
built any reservoir of nitrogen. One area, near a gutter downspout,
has ample water and a great crop of clover. It is very green but has
stems like wire and mowing makes it look just awful. I mostly leave
the clover alone, knowing that in a few years when it has built up
enough nitrogen in the soil the grasses will gain the advantage. In
the meantime I have developed several very large compost piles, and
most of the finished compost is going onto the lawn. Now the lawn is
mowed with a mulching blade, and all vegetable debris remains on the
property.

Una

"Frank McElrath" wrote in
:

I have a bad clover problem here in the DC area. As much as I
hate to use chemicals, I may have to. We are planning to take a
3 week vacation starting at the beginning of August.

why do you consider clover a "problem"? when i reseed, i use white
clover.

Would I do damage to my grass if I sprayed a weedkiller on right
before we left, so as to minimize our exposure to it?

nah, you'd just kill it. might as well have a barren brown yarn.
that really eliminates mowing.
lee

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in
:

Frank McElrath wrote:
I have a bad clover problem here in the DC area. As much as I
hate to use chemicals, I may have to. We are planning to take
a 3 week vacation starting at the beginning of August.

Would I do damage to my grass if I sprayed a weedkiller on
right before we left, so as to minimize our exposure to it?

What is wrong with clover? What catastrophe would ensue if you
had clover in your lawn?

well, it's low growing so you don't have to mow as often, it has
flowers that the bees really love, and it doesn't brown out too badly
if it's dry & a tiny bag (half pound) of seed covers 7000 square
foot. horrible stuff, clover...
lee

zxcvbob wrote in
:

I like clover and a few violets in the lawn. Creeping Charlie
is the lawn weed that I hate.

is creeping charlie the plant with the round leaves, purple flowers &
rather distinctive smell? i think AKA ground ivy? if so, as a brewer
you should know it can be used in place of hops...
lee

On 5/20/10 4:22 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Frank McElrath wrote:
I have a bad clover problem here in the DC area. As much as I hate
to use chemicals, I may have to. We are planning to take a 3 week
vacation starting at the beginning of August.

Would I do damage to my grass if I sprayed a weedkiller on right
before we left, so as to minimize our exposure to it?

What is wrong with clover? What catastrophe would ensue if you had clover
in your lawn?

David


The catastrophe is that it spreads to flower beds and crowds out plants
that you want to grow.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

In article ,
enigma wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in
:

Frank McElrath wrote:
I have a bad clover problem here in the DC area. As much as I
hate to use chemicals, I may have to. We are planning to take
a 3 week vacation starting at the beginning of August.

Would I do damage to my grass if I sprayed a weedkiller on
right before we left, so as to minimize our exposure to it?

What is wrong with clover? What catastrophe would ensue if you
had clover in your lawn?

well, it's low growing so you don't have to mow as often, it has
flowers that the bees really love, and it doesn't brown out too badly
if it's dry & a tiny bag (half pound) of seed covers 7000 square
foot. horrible stuff, clover...
lee

Yes but clover may increase the drag on a golf ball which may be of
import somewhere.
Some weird folks eat it. Whew!!!
http://www.prodigalgardens.info/red%20clover%20recipes.htm

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?

"David E. Ross" wrote in
et:

On 5/20/10 4:22 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
What is wrong with clover? What catastrophe would ensue if you
had clover in your lawn?

The catastrophe is that it spreads to flower beds and crowds out
plants that you want to grow.

really? i have lamb's quarter, oxalis, stinging nettle, & a few
other odd weeds in my flower beds, but no clover. i have used clover
as a cover crop & tilled it in in my veggie garden. no clover.
it's not that big an issue.
lee

David E. Ross wrote:
On 5/20/10 4:22 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Frank McElrath wrote:
I have a bad clover problem here in the DC area. As much as I hate
to use chemicals, I may have to. We are planning to take a 3 week
vacation starting at the beginning of August.

Would I do damage to my grass if I sprayed a weedkiller on right
before we left, so as to minimize our exposure to it?
What is wrong with clover? What catastrophe would ensue if you had clover
in your lawn?

David


The catastrophe is that it spreads to flower beds and crowds out plants
that you want to grow.

From my 40 some years experience with clover in lawns, I've never seen
a big problem with it spreading to flower beds. Not that it doesn't,
but it's a lot easier to pull clover out of a mulched flower bed then it
is to pull grass that spread into the same flower bed.

Tony

enigma wrote:
zxcvbob wrote in
:

I like clover and a few violets in the lawn. Creeping Charlie
is the lawn weed that I hate.

is creeping charlie the plant with the round leaves, purple flowers &
rather distinctive smell? i think AKA ground ivy? if so, as a brewer
you should know it can be used in place of hops...
lee


Yes, ground ivy. Do you have any more info about this? I'm pulling
out pounds of it from an overgrown flower bed; it's never been sprayed.

Bob

zxcvbob wrote:
Yes, ground ivy. Do you have any more info about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glechoma_hederacea has some sources.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...homa_hederacea
has 70 images.

Una