Brooklyn1 writes:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:04:16 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

Brooklyn1 writes:

"Gus" wrote:

Another young, green tomato on the deck yesterday morning. Not how I
like to start the day... I had been lax with the vinegar soaked rags.
Been raining a lot and that dilutes it. I will have to redouble my
efforts... Or, where do I get some Red-Tailed Hawks? (I don't think
coyotes or foxes exist where I live, in the city.)

"Ground Squirrels are active during the day and the nocturnal Barn Owl
will not help with a squirrel problem. However, in areas of infestation,
you can erect a substantial post of 20-25 feet in height to provide a
perch from which hawks will hunt during the day. Red-Tailed Hawks in
particular will hunt ground squirrels. If your vineyard is enclosed in
deer fencing, you may wish to cut several coyote sized holes in the
bottom of your fence to allow easy access for coyote, bobcat and fox.
These animals are very good at hunting ground squirrels and rabbits. If
you are concerned about these predators chewing drip lines, place a few
pans underneath your drip lines to collect water for their use during
the dry months."

Sounds like a lot of masturbation. Squirrels gotta live too.
Squirrels eat your tomatoes mainly for their water content. If you
put out a birdbath squirrels will much prefer that... keep it clean
and full... the best birdbath is the type that sits on the ground...
the least expensive one, holds the most water, easiest to clean, and
is the best configuration; a snow coaster, grandkids outgrew it..
http://i44.tinypic.com/8x8pza.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/293g585.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/dbjjns.jpg
Price doubled in ten years but still a bargain:
http://www.amazon.com/Paricon-Flying...ords=snow+disk
Also helps greatly to distract squirrels with food they prefer... I
feed the birds and put out in-shell peanuts too... squirrels prefer
peanuts to my vegetable garden. I buy bags of unsalted roasted
in-shell Hampton Farms peanuts at BJ's; five pounds/$6... a handful
each morning suffices. Bad enough you're a masturbator, I don't want
to hear you're a cheapo ******* too.

Hmm, that advice leaves something to be desired.
Are you seriously suggesting that feeding the squirrels will solve
the problem?

Any idea how many squirrels will be around after one year of free food?
How about 2 years?

I've been putting out peanuts here for more than ten years and there
aren't more than 4-5 squirrels... the population doesn't grow because
wild critters are extremely territorial

You live on wide open land, I've seen the pictures.
Not really squirrel habitat.

I don't grow vegetables, it's hard enough keeping the deer away from
flowers, but if I lost my mind and tried, I'd be thinking fencing and netting.

There are lots of deer here, anything I don't want deer to eat I
fence.

Fencing for the deer, netting for the birds, raccoons, chipmunks, rats,
field mice, ground hogs...

--
Dan Espen

On 07/27/2013 05:32 AM, Gus wrote:
Another young, green tomato on the deck yesterday morning. Not how I
like to start the day... I had been lax with the vinegar soaked rags.
Been raining a lot and that dilutes it. I will have to redouble my
efforts... Or, where do I get some Red-Tailed Hawks? (I don't think
coyotes or foxes exist where I live, in the city.)


"Ground Squirrels are active during the day and the nocturnal Barn Owl
will not help with a squirrel problem. However, in areas of infestation,
you can erect a substantial post of 20-25 feet in height to provide a
perch from which hawks will hunt during the day. Red-Tailed Hawks in
particular will hunt ground squirrels. If your vineyard is enclosed in
deer fencing, you may wish to cut several coyote sized holes in the
bottom of your fence to allow easy access for coyote, bobcat and fox.
These animals are very good at hunting ground squirrels and rabbits. If
you are concerned about these predators chewing drip lines, place a few
pans underneath your drip lines to collect water for their use during
the dry months."
http://www.hungryowl.org/services/vineyards.html


Hi Gus,

Try modifying this Red Neck Mouse Trap for squirrels. A metal
trash can should suffice. Fill the bottom with RV radiator
fluid.

Here are the instructions:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Redneck-Mouse-Trap/

Here it is in action:
http://giggletime.thoughts.com/posts...neck-mousetrap

Anyone who viewed the second link, JUST TRY AND TELL ME YOU
DIDN'T LAUGH!

-T

Gus said:

New ones will just move in... My NIL cousin has four acres in the
country and has killed 43 squirrels this year. They've gotten into his
wiring and caused lots of damage besides just stealing tomatoes.

Last Monday morning I found a very freshly dead male fox squirrel in
front of the house (and collected the corpse for My Daughter the Zoologist).

By noon, and through the rest of the day, there were at least three male
squirrels chasing, fighting, biting, tail-flicking, growling and sqealing their
way around our yard. Apparently the Capo di tutti capi squirrel snuffing
it left a power vaccuum. They must have settled things in short order--the
next day everything was back to normal.

(Squirrels are excluded from the vegetable garden during the growing
season by a carefully reinforced fence with a charge wire at the top.)

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored

The peanuts are gone again. I threw about 7-8 in the side of the front
yard early this morning. I assume squirrels forage soon after sunrise?
And best to put out peanuts then, and maybe again in the afternoon?

The container of water I put in the front was completely empty and dry.
Could be raccoon or opposum or other animals though. The container in
the back, didn't look like any water was gone.

So far, no half eaten tomatoes lying around But it's just been a
couple days.

On 7/29/2013 10:10 AM, Gus wrote:
The peanuts are gone again. I threw about 7-8 in the side of the front
yard early this morning. I assume squirrels forage soon after sunrise?
And best to put out peanuts then, and maybe again in the afternoon?

The container of water I put in the front was completely empty and dry.
Could be raccoon or opposum or other animals though. The container in
the back, didn't look like any water was gone.

So far, no half eaten tomatoes lying around But it's just been a
couple days.


I think it is a mistake to put anything out to attract them.

This article says squirrel forage range is 1 to 100 acres but they can
travel up to 50 miles:

http://icwdm.org/handbook/rodents/TreeSquirrels.asp

My wife did not mind them coming to the bird feeder on our deck in the
winter and this year after taking it down a couple of months before I
set out tomatoes in pots, I watched squirrels coming back for weeks
looking for the feeder.

Old guy in the park would walk around with peanuts for the squirrels.
I watched a squirrel come out once and follow him even though he had no
peanuts.

Feeding them is just training them to come around and if pickings are
sparse elsewhere you may attract more in.

Tomorrow morning, I pull all the tomatoes no matter what size... After
putting out water, peanuts, vinegar on rags, chicken wire-- another
half eaten tomato on the deck rail this evening.

"Gus" writes:

Tomorrow morning, I pull all the tomatoes no matter what size...
After putting out water, peanuts, vinegar on rags, chicken wire--
another half eaten tomato on the deck rail this evening.

Netting.

Go to hardware store, buy deer netting.
Get stakes or some other material to build frame around plants.S
Frame must have door.
Staple netting to frame.

Netting must go to ground and cover sides and top.

There are other material than deer netting
like chicken wire. You need a physical barrier,
not a diversion.


--
Dan Espen

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Gus" writes:

Tomorrow morning, I pull all the tomatoes no matter what size...
After putting out water, peanuts, vinegar on rags, chicken wire--
another half eaten tomato on the deck rail this evening.

Netting.

Go to hardware store, buy deer netting.
Get stakes or some other material to build frame around plants.S
Frame must have door.
Staple netting to frame.

Netting must go to ground and cover sides and top.

There are other material than deer netting
like chicken wire. You need a physical barrier,
not a diversion.


I was going to do that a couple years ago, and by the time I was done
had spent $60 at Lowes. Couple days later, I returned everything. I
love tomatoes but I'm on a tight budget and decided garden ones aren't
$60+ better than grocery ones.

I would love to grow my own tomatoes, last year I had a decent amount
and they were great. I think once the squirrels get into tomatoes they
are hard to keep out. Last year I never had a problem till end of
August and even then was only a few lost. My dad never had problems
with them in Erie. Rabbits were more an issue there, we had trees
around the area but my dad never had squirrels steal his tomatoes.
Maybe I should move to Erie?

"Gus" writes:

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Gus" writes:

Tomorrow morning, I pull all the tomatoes no matter what size...
After putting out water, peanuts, vinegar on rags, chicken wire--
another half eaten tomato on the deck rail this evening.

Netting.

Go to hardware store, buy deer netting.
Get stakes or some other material to build frame around plants.S
Frame must have door.
Staple netting to frame.

Netting must go to ground and cover sides and top.

There are other material than deer netting
like chicken wire. You need a physical barrier,
not a diversion.


I was going to do that a couple years ago, and by the time I was done
had spent $60 at Lowes. Couple days later, I returned everything. I
love tomatoes but I'm on a tight budget and decided garden ones aren't
$60+ better than grocery ones.

Makes sense to me.

I garden to create a place I like to be.

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 23:23:45 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

"Gus" writes:

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Gus" writes:

Tomorrow morning, I pull all the tomatoes no matter what size...
After putting out water, peanuts, vinegar on rags, chicken wire--
another half eaten tomato on the deck rail this evening.

Netting.

Go to hardware store, buy deer netting.
Get stakes or some other material to build frame around plants.S
Frame must have door.
Staple netting to frame.

Netting must go to ground and cover sides and top.

There are other material than deer netting
like chicken wire. You need a physical barrier,
not a diversion.


I was going to do that a couple years ago, and by the time I was done
had spent $60 at Lowes. Couple days later, I returned everything. I
love tomatoes but I'm on a tight budget and decided garden ones aren't
$60+ better than grocery ones.

Makes sense to me.

I garden to create a place I like to be.

True, home vegetable gardening is a hobby... the definition of a hobby
is something one does for enjoyment but costs money, once it shows a
profit it's called a business... no way a home vegetable garden saves
money. That said I assumed the poster's garden was properly fenced
(only a fool doesn't fence a vegetable garden), then placing more
appropriate food the critters prefer at a distance will keep them from
finding ways past the fencing (no fencing is 100% critter proof). I've
been feeding birds in winter forever but now I feed them all year as
birds are the worst maurauders of vegetable gardens. If someone is
concerned with cost they need to quit growing veggies and buy them...
in season farm stands sell home growns... farm stands sell far better
produce than farmer's markets and at far lower prices. Farm stands
sell what they grow and pay no rent... farmer's markets mainly sell
the very same produce one buys at the stupidmarket but at higher
prices, they have to pay rent for their booth, and they need to make a
profit for their efforts. Conversely many farm stands at the side of
the road in front of private homes sell the overage from home gardens,
they sell for cheap rather than composting... I had a farm stand for
two seasons but I found it easier and more beneficial to just trade my
extra produce with neighbors who also did vegetable gardening... every
gardener grows enough different crops to benefit from trading. My
next door neighbor grows a lot of onions, garlic and potatoes... this
year I will have a glut of melons, winter squash, and cabbage... by
trading we both benefit. We don't actually do any formal trading, we
simply leave bagsful at each other's back door. I already left my
neighbor a dozen yellow crookneck zucchini. And soon I will have more
kirbys than I can possibly use, I already ate six yesterday... very
soon I'll pick a peck a day... I can only pickle so much before I run
out of space.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
....
True, home vegetable gardening is a hobby... the definition of a hobby
is something one does for enjoyment but costs money, once it shows a
profit it's called a business... no way a home vegetable garden saves
money.

we save between $500-$1500/yr in food costs.

so yes, there is a way...


songbird

On 7/29/2013 1:06 AM, Todd wrote:
On 07/27/2013 05:32 AM, Gus wrote:
Another young, green tomato on the deck yesterday morning. Not how I
like to start the day... I had been lax with the vinegar soaked rags.
Been raining a lot and that dilutes it. I will have to redouble my
efforts... Or, where do I get some Red-Tailed Hawks? (I don't think
coyotes or foxes exist where I live, in the city.)


"Ground Squirrels are active during the day and the nocturnal Barn Owl
will not help with a squirrel problem. However, in areas of infestation,
you can erect a substantial post of 20-25 feet in height to provide a
perch from which hawks will hunt during the day. Red-Tailed Hawks in
particular will hunt ground squirrels. If your vineyard is enclosed in
deer fencing, you may wish to cut several coyote sized holes in the
bottom of your fence to allow easy access for coyote, bobcat and fox.
These animals are very good at hunting ground squirrels and rabbits. If
you are concerned about these predators chewing drip lines, place a few
pans underneath your drip lines to collect water for their use during
the dry months."
http://www.hungryowl.org/services/vineyards.html


Hi Gus,

Try modifying this Red Neck Mouse Trap for squirrels. A metal
trash can should suffice. Fill the bottom with RV radiator
fluid.

Here are the instructions:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Redneck-Mouse-Trap/

Here it is in action:
http://giggletime.thoughts.com/posts...neck-mousetrap

Anyone who viewed the second link, JUST TRY AND TELL ME YOU
DIDN'T LAUGH!

-T

Just as I walked into my family room a couple of winters ago, I heard a
snap trap go off in the adjacent utility room.

Getting trap and mouse, I decided to flush him rather than open the door
to the cold.

He splashed into the bowl and revived, desperately trying to escape, so
I flushed him.

He now resides in my septic system with a diet of stink bugs

songbird wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote:
...
True, home vegetable gardening is a hobby... the definition of a
hobby is something one does for enjoyment but costs money, once it
shows a profit it's called a business... no way a home vegetable
garden saves money.

we save between $500-$1500/yr in food costs.

so yes, there is a way...


songbird

This is one of Brooklyn's little bugbears. Because he can't save money from
his veges therefore nobody else can either. In reality the outcome is most
variable. Some people pour money into it and get very little return and
some people spend little and get much. It's a matter of skill and
situation.

D

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
songbird wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote:
...
True, home vegetable gardening is a hobby... the definition of a
hobby is something one does for enjoyment but costs money, once it
shows a profit it's called a business... no way a home vegetable
garden saves money.

we save between $500-$1500/yr in food costs.

so yes, there is a way...


songbird

This is one of Brooklyn's little bugbears. Because he can't save
money from his veges therefore nobody else can either. In reality the
outcome is most variable. Some people pour money into it and get very
little return and some people spend little and get much. It's a
matter of skill and situation.

I love to having a garden and it is not about saving money, but it is a
fair amount of work and patience, and so frustrating when squirrels take
what I planted and nurtured. Fresh garden tomatoes are the best
vegetable there is. But alas my skills are not on par with the lowly
squirrel. I surrender to the little mammal with better gardening street
skills.

"Frank" wrote in message
...
Just as I walked into my family room a couple of winters ago, I heard
a snap trap go off in the adjacent utility room.

Getting trap and mouse, I decided to flush him rather than open the
door to the cold.

He splashed into the bowl and revived, desperately trying to escape,
so I flushed him.

He now resides in my septic system with a diet of stink bugs


I wonder how long a mouse can survive? I had one in a trap in a brown
paper bag once in the morning and assumed it was dead, but was running
late for work and so decided to deal with it after work... When I got
home, the trap was empty.

A little off topic, but apropos to the revival of the mouse but
regarding humans:

"What happens when we die - wouldn't we all like to know? We can't bring
people back from the dead to tell us but in some cases, we almost can.
Resuscitation medicine is now sometimes capable of reviving people after
their hearts have stopped beating and their brains have flat lined."

"[Dr. Sam Parnia:] So today when we define someone as being dead, we
look at those three criteria - no heartbeat, no respirations, and we
check the pupils of the eye for a reflex that when it's absent, it tells
us that the brain stem and the brain is no longer functioning. The
person is motionless - and they're dead, and we define them as dead.

However, what we've now discovered - in the past decade or so - is that
actually, it's only after a person dies. So in other words, when someone
has actually reached that point and they've become a corpse, that the
cells inside the body start to undergo their own process of death, and
that the period in which the cells die is variable depending on the
organs, but it certainly goes on to hours of time.

So for instance, brain cells will die at about eight hours; again, there
is some variation, but around eight hours after a person has died. And
therefore, our work in resuscitation science is to try to study the
processes that are going on in a person after they've died, but before
they've reached the point of complete, irreversible and irretrievable
cell damage such that no matter what we do, we can't bring them back.

And if we manage to restore oxygen and nutrients back to those cells
before they've reached that point, we are able to successfully bring
someone back to life. And that's why today, with numerous advances that
have taken place in the field of resuscitation science, we have managed
to push back that boundary to well beyond the 10-, 20-minute time frame
that had been perceived in the past, into many hours of death."

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcr...ryId=172495667


'With today's medicine, we can bring people back to life up to one,
maybe two hours, sometimes even longer, after their heart stopped
beating and they have thus died by circulatory failure. In the future,
we will likely get better at reversing death.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...urs-death.html


"He [Sam Parnia] specializes in people who survive cardiac arrest.
Eighty to 90 percent of these patients do not have stories of bright
lights, tunnels, out-of-body experiences and luminous beings."
http://www.npr.org/2013/02/21/172495...-erasing-death