On 5/30/2014 7:04 AM, songbird wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:
...
Something odd is going on in the US when it comes to 'carbs'. It's like
'carbs' have become the new anti-Çhrist. 'Low carbing' is highly
fashionable.

heh, putting it mildly... the USoA has had
agricultural fiddling with nutrition recommendations
for quite some time, so when actual science is done
it is often skewed by government funding and desires
of legislators to push their pet crops through things
like the school lunch program.

Atkins was popular many years ago. it was yet
another fad diet that has been transformed into
the Paleo diet over the past few years. not too
long ago there was also the cinnamon pill diabetic
craze, the fish oil craze, the carbo diet craze,
the low fat craze, the butter and lard craze.

i think the major improvement in basic nutrition
is best summed up as "eat real food". i.e. stay
away from overly processed foods or things that
don't look like anything real, most of what is in
the grocery store these days is packaged technofoods
that are largely made up of variations on corn, soy,
sugars and various flavorings and preservatives.

the recommendation to eat a lot of protein is
largely wrong for humans, we're omnivores, after
so many grams of protein in a diet the rest is
not needed and is very wasteful if you consider
what it takes to raise and process (aside from
plant sources). higher fiber foods are great in
general too as they provide bulk, making a person
feel actually satisfied from a meal, various
probiotic foods are good.

i stay away from too much salt, and get plenty
of exercise, that seems to be the most consistent
advice you can get from various cultural studies.


After having tried to get sense out of someone who I had thought was
bright, curious and could do research, I decided that I'd no longer
bother trying to make any sense of what people believe when it comes to
what they eat and the reasons for why they eat what they do.

i try to eat mainly what i grow and what i
cook as i pretty much like almost anything. for
the largest meal of the day (lunch) i eat enough
to get me through to dinner and a day of gardening.
i can eat about what i want now with me being
more active. for later on, i eat a large bowl of
shredded cabbage and carrots with various things
added and a sweet and sour dressing of some type.
keeps me full and mostly away from the night time
snacks.


songbird

Well, they certainly have been doing a good job getting our school
children to eat a healthy balanced diet, and intercepting the dangerous
contraband pb&j lunches (with cheetos) smuggled in from home.

Steve

In article
Todd writes:

And I don't obsess on it.

I'd hate to see what you consider obsessing.


--
Drew Lawson | I'd like to find your inner child
| and kick its little ass

Todd wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks kale tastes like
penicillin?

All the brassicas have a fairly strong flavour. To enjoy them (and this
includes kale)

- get the right cultivar
- grow it well and pick it at the right time
- cook it appropriately

Having said that it doesn't always work out. Personal preference, which
includes our eating history back to mother's milk, may be impossible to
overcome. I don't like broccolli, my wife does. We compromise and have it
sometimes.

Try young fresh-cut kale leaves (cut out the ribs) torn into bits in a mixed
salad. The pungency might work quite well with other milder veges.

David

In article
Todd writes:

We have a school teacher friend that does lunch duty.
The lunch room required a serving (plastic cup with
a lid) of vegies with every meal. Collards and Kale.
Pretty much the closest thing to toxic waste you could
legally get away with feeding a kid. YUK!

Dear god! They are poisoning out kids with, um,
fresh vegetables?

Enter locally or home grown and "suddenly", you can't
stop eating the stuff. The first bunch of carrots
I bought from a local organic grower, stunk up the
car so bad, it was everything I could do not to pull
over and devour the whole bunch.

So says the person who claims that carbohydrates are poison.
You must have found that rare carb-free carrot.


Am I the only one that thinks kale tastes like
penicillin?

I have to wonder under which circumstances (in your anti-TheMan
life) you have spent lots of time tasting penicillin.

I don't recall taking the time to savor the flavor. It was a pill,
and I swallowed it, and moved on. Clearly you have had more frequent
treatments?

Though I don't know what penicillin itself is used for anymore.
Most interesting things are resistant to that.


--
|Drew Lawson | If you're not part of the solution |
| | you're part of the precipitate. |

On Monday, June 2, 2014 1:14:21 PM UTC-7, Todd wrote:
On 06/02/2014 09:31 AM, SteveB wrote:

Well, they certainly have been doing a good job getting our school

children to eat a healthy balanced diet, and intercepting the dangerous

contraband pb&j lunches (with cheetos) smuggled in from home.

Don 't you wish! People from who are trying to get healthful (NOT healthy) diets into the schools report that the little darlings dump it. Costly, wasteful. They are bombarded with alluring ads for crap on the media, and quite possibly are fed this stuff at home.

How change the paradigm?

[...]

The food Nazis and I have to disagree...

[....]


Whenever I encounter a Seinfeldian who throws around the term "Nazi" as they did in that TV show, I want to stick his face into a reel of death camp film and show him what Nazis really did.

There are some things that is crude, ignorant and tasteless to trivialize!

HB
..

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Monday, June 2, 2014 1:14:21 PM UTC-7, Todd wrote:
On 06/02/2014 09:31 AM, SteveB wrote:

Well, they certainly have been doing a good job getting our school

children to eat a healthy balanced diet, and intercepting the
dangerous

contraband pb&j lunches (with cheetos) smuggled in from home.

Don 't you wish! People from who are trying to get healthful (NOT
healthy) diets into the schools report that the little darlings dump
it. Costly, wasteful. They are bombarded with alluring ads for crap
on the media, and quite possibly are fed this stuff at home.

How change the paradigm?


Have a look at Jamie Oliver. He aims to make school food nutritious,
economical and tasty. He has had mixed success, I think because school
cannot overtake what happens in the home.

D

David Hare-Scott wrote:
....
All the brassicas have a fairly strong flavour. To enjoy them (and this
includes kale)

- get the right cultivar
- grow it well and pick it at the right time
- cook it appropriately

Having said that it doesn't always work out. Personal preference, which
includes our eating history back to mother's milk, may be impossible to
overcome. I don't like broccolli, my wife does. We compromise and have it
sometimes.

Try young fresh-cut kale leaves (cut out the ribs) torn into bits in a mixed
salad. The pungency might work quite well with other milder veges.

and there is a genetic component to the taste too,
some people get a real bitter taste from them that
others do not.


songbird

In article
Todd writes:
On 06/02/2014 08:34 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Todd writes:

We have a school teacher friend that does lunch duty.
The lunch room required a serving (plastic cup with
a lid) of vegies with every meal. Collards and Kale.
Pretty much the closest thing to toxic waste you could
legally get away with feeding a kid. YUK!

Dear god! They are poisoning out kids with, um,
fresh vegetables?

Hi Drew,

Cooked to a paste. How in the world do you consider
that fresh? I bet a cock roach wouldn't even eat it!

And, pay more attention, it is the type and preparation
I am criticizing, not fresh vegis.

You specified nothing more than "Collards and Kale."
You wrote nothing regarding the preparation.
I cannot pay attention to what you do not write.



--
Drew Lawson | I'd like to find your inner child
| and kick its little ass

On 6/3/2014 10:22 AM, Todd wrote:
On 06/03/2014 06:22 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Todd writes:
On 06/02/2014 08:34 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Todd writes:

We have a school teacher friend that does lunch duty.
The lunch room required a serving (plastic cup with
a lid) of vegies with every meal. Collards and Kale.
Pretty much the closest thing to toxic waste you could
legally get away with feeding a kid. YUK!

Dear god! They are poisoning out kids with, um,
fresh vegetables?

Hi Drew,

Cooked to a paste. How in the world do you consider
that fresh? I bet a cock roach wouldn't even eat it!

And, pay more attention, it is the type and preparation
I am criticizing, not fresh vegis.

You specified nothing more than "Collards and Kale."
You wrote nothing regarding the preparation.
I cannot pay attention to what you do not write.

Hi Drew,

If you had read the whole letter, it was pretty clear
from context that I am a big advocate of fresh,
local grown organic vegi's. You really should have
read the whole letter before jumping to conclusions.

Had you only read the part about "Collards and Kale"
(a terrible choice for kids) and you happen to like
that kind of cafeteria stuff, maybe I can see your point,
although I did call it toxic waste. Maybe you
you were not able to visualize a plastic cup
filled with boiled down collards and kale. Or, maybe
you like your vegi's that way. To each, his own.

-T
I like to yard sale. I found this big green juicer for $25, and they
retail for about $250. Champion brand. My wife then believed that
anything worth doing was worth obsessing over. She got juicing books.

Her first concoction was some dark green glop with about 12 ingredients.
She lines us up military style for our dose. The kids wailed,"Do I
have to drink this?" Well, you don't challenge the queen. They took a
sip, and ran gagging towards the closest rest room.

I suggested she taste it, if it was so good for us. Maybe the kids were
just being kids, and didn't realize what a good thing this was. She
looked at me as, "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE QUEEN, THE QUEEN DOESN'T
HAVE TO TASTE ANYTHING!" She took a healthy mouthful, and lucky she
was close to the sink. She got some in the sink, the rest on the walls,
counter top, floor, and down the front of her, along with what looked
like a little breakfast. I was the last to taste it, and I just
describe it as battery acid with a hint of lemon. She harumphed, "Needs
more spinach."

After that, we regularly made carrot juice, apple juice, grapefruit
juice, grape juice, and several things that were quite good. Applesauce
made in it was good. I mostly made it, because what I made was very
simple, and didn't have hidden nasty tasting things like kale and
spinach and leftover peelings. The kids liked MY juice, which just
aggravated the situation. I once took on an orange skin hue from
drinking too much carrot juice, which I love when made with young small
thin carrots. Very sweet.

Most "health" foods (translates to overpriced and overrated) don't do
much more than just a balanced diet. Yes, cooking it less, and cooking
the skin gives it more value, but there is no magic bullet. I get
amused by local AM radio shows who have some "expert" on it who makes it
sound like there is some magic ingredients that no one but they have
access to, and they spout huge words to describe their expensive
products. Ah, if we would only do what THEY say, our cancers and all
other manner of afflictions would go away by noon tomorrow.

There is nowhere a disclaimer that one should clear this with one's
doctor. I am a lifetime coumadin patient, with an artificial heart
valve. Kale and spinach are BAD for me. It could be bad for lots of
others who listen to this claptrap on the radio, and who take this and
have severe reactions or complications.

So, as with everything, results may vary, and ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL.
If you find a balanced diet that YOU like, stick to it, and let the
naysayers eat all the latest magic food du jour, and fad diet that they
will prove next year killed hundreds of people. Common sense isn't very
common any more.

Steve

On 6/3/2014 10:30 AM, Todd wrote:
On 06/03/2014 05:55 AM, songbird wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
...
All the brassicas have a fairly strong flavour. To enjoy them (and this
includes kale)

- get the right cultivar
- grow it well and pick it at the right time
- cook it appropriately

Having said that it doesn't always work out. Personal preference, which
includes our eating history back to mother's milk, may be impossible to
overcome. I don't like broccolli, my wife does. We compromise and
have it
sometimes.

Try young fresh-cut kale leaves (cut out the ribs) torn into bits in
a mixed
salad. The pungency might work quite well with other milder veges.

and there is a genetic component to the taste too,
some people get a real bitter taste from them that
others do not.


songbird


Hi Songbird,

There are apparently a certain segment of the population
that can smell a sulfur component in broccoli. Poor
folks can't stand to even be around the stuff.

Kale, being a kissing cousin to broccoli, may be the
same smell. On the other hand, I love broccoli and
can't stand kale, so perhaps not. (I can't imagine
what kale tastes like "juiced" -- a whole bottle
of penicillin!)

I make a Paleo/Diabetic broccoli cheese soup that is
so good! It is so rich is will knock your socks off.
Those poor folks that can smell the sulfur probably
wouldn't be able to be in the house.

-T

We had a test in high school biology. We were given small paper test
strips. We put them in our mouths. About half spit them out instantly.
I was one of them. Not sour. Not bitter. Just UGH! YUCK! The rest
of the class was chewing theirs with no reaction.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
On 6/3/2014 10:30 AM, Todd wrote:
On 06/03/2014 05:55 AM, songbird wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
...
All the brassicas have a fairly strong flavour. To enjoy them
(and this includes kale)

- get the right cultivar
- grow it well and pick it at the right time
- cook it appropriately

Having said that it doesn't always work out. Personal preference,
which includes our eating history back to mother's milk, may be
impossible to overcome. I don't like broccolli, my wife does. We
compromise and have it
sometimes.

Try young fresh-cut kale leaves (cut out the ribs) torn into bits
in a mixed
salad. The pungency might work quite well with other milder veges.

and there is a genetic component to the taste too,
some people get a real bitter taste from them that
others do not.


songbird


Hi Songbird,

There are apparently a certain segment of the population
that can smell a sulfur component in broccoli. Poor
folks can't stand to even be around the stuff.

Kale, being a kissing cousin to broccoli, may be the
same smell. On the other hand, I love broccoli and
can't stand kale, so perhaps not. (I can't imagine
what kale tastes like "juiced" -- a whole bottle
of penicillin!)

I make a Paleo/Diabetic broccoli cheese soup that is
so good! It is so rich is will knock your socks off.
Those poor folks that can smell the sulfur probably
wouldn't be able to be in the house.

-T

We had a test in high school biology. We were given small paper test
strips. We put them in our mouths. About half spit them out
instantly. I was one of them. Not sour. Not bitter. Just UGH! YUCK!
The rest of the class was chewing theirs with no reaction.

Steve

This is the PTC test to determine a genetic ability to taste the compound
phenolthiocarbamide. It is a nice demonstration as the population largely
falls into two distinct categories, tasters and non-tasters and in any class
you are very likely to get some of each. Of course the words used to
describe sense impressions are often subjective but most tasters would
describe PTC as very bitter.

Todd is quite correct that a number of aspect of tasting ability are
inherited. It is quite possible that his revulsion to kale is genetic but
upbringing has effects too. Some people like olives immediately, some
aquire the taste and some never do. Like so many things to do with people
it ain't simple.

D

SteveB wrote:
On 6/3/2014 10:22 AM, Todd wrote:
On 06/03/2014 06:22 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Todd writes:
On 06/02/2014 08:34 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article
Todd writes:

We have a school teacher friend that does lunch duty.
The lunch room required a serving (plastic cup with
a lid) of vegies with every meal. Collards and Kale.
Pretty much the closest thing to toxic waste you could
legally get away with feeding a kid. YUK!

Dear god! They are poisoning out kids with, um,
fresh vegetables?

Hi Drew,

Cooked to a paste. How in the world do you consider
that fresh? I bet a cock roach wouldn't even eat it!

And, pay more attention, it is the type and preparation
I am criticizing, not fresh vegis.

You specified nothing more than "Collards and Kale."
You wrote nothing regarding the preparation.
I cannot pay attention to what you do not write.

Hi Drew,

If you had read the whole letter, it was pretty clear
from context that I am a big advocate of fresh,
local grown organic vegi's. You really should have
read the whole letter before jumping to conclusions.

Had you only read the part about "Collards and Kale"
(a terrible choice for kids) and you happen to like
that kind of cafeteria stuff, maybe I can see your point,
although I did call it toxic waste. Maybe you
you were not able to visualize a plastic cup
filled with boiled down collards and kale. Or, maybe
you like your vegi's that way. To each, his own.

-T
I like to yard sale. I found this big green juicer for $25, and they
retail for about $250. Champion brand. My wife then believed that
anything worth doing was worth obsessing over. She got juicing books.

Her first concoction was some dark green glop with about 12
ingredients. She lines us up military style for our dose. The kids
wailed,"Do I have to drink this?" Well, you don't challenge the
queen. They took a sip, and ran gagging towards the closest rest
room.

I suggested she taste it, if it was so good for us. Maybe the kids
were just being kids, and didn't realize what a good thing this was.
She looked at me as, "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE QUEEN, THE QUEEN
DOESN'T HAVE TO TASTE ANYTHING!" She took a healthy mouthful, and
lucky she was close to the sink. She got some in the sink, the rest
on the walls, counter top, floor, and down the front of her, along
with what looked like a little breakfast. I was the last to taste
it, and I just describe it as battery acid with a hint of lemon. She
harumphed, "Needs more spinach."

After that, we regularly made carrot juice, apple juice, grapefruit
juice, grape juice, and several things that were quite good.
Applesauce made in it was good. I mostly made it, because what I
made was very simple, and didn't have hidden nasty tasting things
like kale and spinach and leftover peelings. The kids liked MY
juice, which just aggravated the situation. I once took on an orange
skin hue from drinking too much carrot juice, which I love when made
with young small thin carrots. Very sweet.

Most "health" foods (translates to overpriced and overrated) don't do
much more than just a balanced diet. Yes, cooking it less, and
cooking the skin gives it more value, but there is no magic bullet.
I get amused by local AM radio shows who have some "expert" on it who
makes it sound like there is some magic ingredients that no one but
they have access to, and they spout huge words to describe their
expensive products. Ah, if we would only do what THEY say, our
cancers and all other manner of afflictions would go away by noon
tomorrow.

There is nowhere a disclaimer that one should clear this with one's
doctor. I am a lifetime coumadin patient, with an artificial heart
valve. Kale and spinach are BAD for me. It could be bad for lots of
others who listen to this claptrap on the radio, and who take this and
have severe reactions or complications.

So, as with everything, results may vary, and ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT
ALL. If you find a balanced diet that YOU like, stick to it, and let
the naysayers eat all the latest magic food du jour, and fad diet
that they will prove next year killed hundreds of people. Common
sense isn't very common any more.

Steve

You need to be careful with that common sense stuff it can get a bad name.

D

On 1/06/2014 6:36 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:
Todd wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:

The list of ingredients for some 'foods' is amazing. I spend a lot of
time reading labels and I'm often amazed at the way that producers faff
so much with some products.

I wrote the above para. I DID NOT WRITE THE FOLLOWING regardless of
what the attributions say.:

You got that right! Go into Vons or Ralphs
and look at that alluring display of pies & cakes -- then look at the book-length
labels and turn away, shuddering.

On 1/06/2014 1:17 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:

Anybody know which food sage said he doesn't eat anything with more
than 5 ingredients?

Silly generalisation. The concept is that you don't eat factory
produced food with a list of processed food-like substances and
chemicals as long as your arm. The trouble is this leaves out a vast
amount of perfectly healthy home-cooked cuisine as well. How do you
make a good Indian curry with 5 ingredients?

:-)) Indeed. No curry with only 5 ingredients would be worth eating.

It's like the bloke (Polan?) who said don't eat any food your
grandmother had never heard of. The intent is good: to leave out all
those chemicals. My grandmother had never heard of garlic or zucchini or
fresh ginger wholemeal bread. Another silly generalisation.

:-)) Indeed that IS a generalisation that is not particularly useful IMO.