In article ,
paghat wrote:
In article , (Bill Oliver) wrote:

In article ,
paghat wrote:
I'm sure there aren't many who believe Billo when he advocates using
glyphosate as table salt...


This is, of course, untrue. You would be more convincing,
paghat, if you did not start off your screeds with an untruth,
and go downhill from there.

Better go back & read your own posts. It was your FIRST shot out the gate
repeating Monsanto's outdated table salt canard.


This is untrue. Please provide the quote. You cannot.

My challenge stande. Please provide a single publication in a
peer-reviewed scientific journal that purports to show that
Roundup is dangerous to humans when used as directed.


billo

In article ,
paghat wrote:

Okay, what Billo said precisely that unless "lethal doses" of glyphosate
were used, it is no more dangerous than table salt. He said it. Nothing
less than a lethal dose. Otherwise it's "Table" Salt.


No, I did not. Please provide the quote.

My claim was, and is, that Roundup is not dangerous to humans
when used as directed. I have challenged you to provide a
single scientific article in a peer-reviewed journal that
claims to show otherwise. You cannot. Instead, you launch
into this bullshit personal attack.

But, of course, all you have is personal attack. You certainly
don't have science on your side.

My challenge stands.


billo

In article ,
paghat wrote:

If you want to finally retract one of your stupid statements, do so, but
don't call me the liar while you lie your ass off saying you didn't psot
what you posted.

You, yet again, are telling an untruth.

Please post the quote. You cannot. You can search for that as
you vainly look for an article in a peer-reviewed scientific
journal that claims to show that Roundup is dangerous to humans
when used as directed.

billo

In article ,
paghat wrote:
In article , (Bill Oliver) wrote:

Ah, yes. If you can't argue the science, argue the person.

Yes yes, you keep telling us how ...


My challenge stands.


billo

In article ,
paghat wrote:
In article , Tom Jaszewski
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:08:08 -0700,
(paghat) wrote:

. As you deny being the same Bill Oliver who services
Monsanto through the American Chemical Society,

Check out some of the staff at the Armed Forces Institute of
Pathology, Billo's employer. Lots of Monsanto links there. Nothing
like defending your buddies and their interests.

Thanks Tom. It was the one query he most kept avoiding, though I asked
quite nicely a couple of times


Indeed. Only among the ecofundamentalists does competence count
against you.

Generally, USENET discussions are free from this personal
ad hominem attack based where people work, what people do, etc.
One of the the great things about these newsgroups is that
the "right" to engage in discussions is not based on
credentials. But, as I have found, there is nothing
like being challenged on the facts to bring out the
drive for personal destruction by ecofundamentalists and
their ilk on the left.

You want to change the rules.

You want to play the credentials game?

OK.

As your pet cyberstalker found, I have a MS in Computer
Science from the University of North Carolina. I am also a
physician, board certified in Anatomic, Clinical, and Forensic
Pathology. I am a member of the American Society for
Clinical Pathology, American Academy of Forensic Sciences,
and the National Association of Medical Examiners, among others.
I am published in medical journals in the fields of Psychiatry,
General Pathology, and Forensic Pathology. I am a consultant
to the FBI, State, and other federal agencies on matters of
forensic interest, and have worked with numerous federal,
state, and local agencies in the investigation of wrongful
death. I have received national awards for my work. Most recently,
I was an invited speaker for a special sesson at the ACM SIGGRAPH.

I am not associated in any way with Monsanto.

As a Pathologist, I am competent to read the environmental
pathology and toxicology literature, and as as Forensic
Pathologist, I have a pretty good handle on what poisoning
entails.

What are your credentials, paghat? What makes me
or anyone believe that you are minimally competent to
understand the literature you so ineptly and incorrectly
parrot?

My challenge stands. Please provide a single article
in a peer-reviewed journal that claims to show that
Roundup is dangerous to humans when used as directed.


billo

On 18 Aug 2003 02:29:34 GMT, (Bill Oliver) wrote:

In article ,
Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:08:08 -0700,
(paghat) wrote:

. As you deny being the same Bill Oliver who services
Monsanto through the American Chemical Society,

Check out some of the staff at the Armed Forces Institute of
Pathology, Billo's employer. Lots of Monsanto links there. Nothing
like defending your buddies and their interests.

( oh oh Ashcroft's bullies are probably reading this)


Pretty pathetic, this. A *complete* loss of any attempt
to provide a *single* peer reviewed scientific journal
article demonstrating that Roundup is dangerous to
humans when used as directed.

Instead, you slide to a pure campaign of personal
attack and cyberstalking. The ecofundamentalist
inquisitors are certainly out tonight.

But, since you have decided to drag my employer
into this, my views are my own and do not necessarily
reflect those of the United States Government,
the Department of Defense, the Armed Forces
Instituted of Pathology, or any entity
other than myself.


And my challenge stands.


billo


Ecofundamentalist? Cyberstalking?
Your jig is up, you defend from a vested interest and it's public
information, no different here than reading newspaper accounts in a
library. The advantage to the internet is the ability to more easily
reveal the reasoning behind the overly defensive stand.


And your jig is up.




"Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets,
but humbler folk may circumvent this restriction if they know how.
To plant a pine, for example, one need be neither god nor poet;
one need only own a good shovel. By virtue of this curious loophole in the rules,
any clodhopper may say: Let there be a tree--and there will be one"

Aldo Leopold

On 18 Aug 2003 11:07:28 GMT, (Bill Oliver) wrote:

My challenge stands.


Your jig is up.




"Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets,
but humbler folk may circumvent this restriction if they know how.
To plant a pine, for example, one need be neither god nor poet;
one need only own a good shovel. By virtue of this curious loophole in the rules,
any clodhopper may say: Let there be a tree--and there will be one"

Aldo Leopold

In article ,
Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On 18 Aug 2003 02:29:34 GMT, (Bill Oliver) wrote:


And your jig is up.


My jig is up? You mean asking that you provide a single
scientific article in a peer-reviewed journal that claims
to show that Roundup is dangerous to humans when used
as directed?

Yeah, how dare I ask such a thing. Who do I think I
am. I must be stopped from asking such an unreasonable
question, whatever the cost.

My challenge stands.

And you have nothing but personal attack. You certainly
don't have a single scientific article in a peer-reviewed
journal that claims to show that Roundup is dangerous to
humans when used as directed. Nope. Not that.


billo

In article ,
Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On 18 Aug 2003 11:07:28 GMT, (Bill Oliver) wrote:

My challenge stands.


Your jig is up.


In other words, you cannot provide a *single* article in the
scientific peer-reviewed literature that claims to show
that Roundup is dangerous when used as directed. Thank
you very much.

billo

On 18 Aug 2003 11:32:23 GMT, (Bill Oliver) wrote:

As a Pathologist, I am competent to read the environmental
pathology and toxicology literature, and as as Forensic
Pathologist, I have a pretty good handle on what poisoning
entails.

And qualified to defend the very generous support Monsanto has
given your employer. Oops no wait, you are in no way tainted by your
self interests. My bad!

Curious how simply searching public information is called stalking
when the self interest behind your overly defensive posture is
revealed.

Your jig is up.







"Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets,
but humbler folk may circumvent this restriction if they know how.
To plant a pine, for example, one need be neither god nor poet;
one need only own a good shovel. By virtue of this curious loophole in the rules,
any clodhopper may say: Let there be a tree--and there will be one"

Aldo Leopold

On 17 Aug 2003 23:14:50 GMT, (Bill Oliver) opined:

In article ,
paghat wrote:
I'm sure there aren't many who believe Billo when he advocates using
glyphosate as table salt...


This is, of course, untrue. You would be more convincing,
paghat, if you did not start off your screeds with an untruth,
and go downhill from there.

My claim was, and is, that Roundup is safe if used as
directed.

BANG! And there it is. What just about everyone else is advocating is that,
Roundup is NOT safe if used as directed. MONSANTO lies. University tests
funded by MONSANTO are LIES. Yes, LIES.

I can hardly wait for Al Franken's new book:

"Lies and the lying liars who tell them." On stands soon. Also, Molly Ivan's
new book: "Bushwhacked." Her first book "Shrub" should be put into required
reading in school. Elementary school. More to prepare the young of how many
lies and liars there are.

You have not been able to provide a peer-reviewed
scientific article that even claims this is untrue. You have
instead misstated what the articles you *did* reference
said.

I await a peer-reviewed scientific article that states that
Roundup is dangerous when used as directed. Go for it.


billo

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:01:49 GMT, "Phrederik" opined:


"paghat" wrote in message
news
I'm sure there aren't many who believe Billo when he advocates using
glyphosate as table salt,

You do realize that after a sentence like that, the rest of your post
is completely worthless.

Shampoo is also as safe as table salt, but I don't see you advocating
that folks should using shampoo as table salt. There are thousands of
items just as safe, or safer, than table salt that probably wouldn't
work too well in place of salt.

I'm also pretty sure that "Billo" never advocating using ANYTHING in
place of table salt.


You're right. Monsanto marketing tool, before it was pulled by a New York court
was, "Roundup, Safe as Table Salt." That was the MONSANTO lie. Now they pulled
this idiotic statement under court order, are being sued in so many ways I can't
keep count and are one of the Earth's greatest pollution devices.

In article ,
Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On 18 Aug 2003 11:32:23 GMT, (Bill Oliver) wrote:

As a Pathologist, I am competent to read the environmental
pathology and toxicology literature, and as as Forensic
Pathologist, I have a pretty good handle on what poisoning
entails.

And qualified to defend the very generous support Monsanto has
given your employer. Oops no wait, you are in no way tainted by your
self interests. My bad!

Curious how simply searching public information is called stalking
when the self interest behind your overly defensive posture is
revealed.

Your jig is up.


No. I have never received any money from Monsanto. In
fact, I know of no grants from Monsanto to the AFIP, though
as one of the leading Pathology institutes with a 150-year
history of being a world-leading reference center, I cannot
keep track of all of the grants to all of the physicians
here over the past century and a half. Those interested
in the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and the
National Museum of Health and Medicine really should
take a look at the AFIP/NMHM web pages -- www.afip.org and
nmhm.washingtondc.museum. This is the kind of place
the ecofundamentalists are so afraid of?

And, of course, my opinions have nothing to do with my
employer. They do not represent the opinions of the
AFIP, the US government, the Department of Defense,
or anyone else other than myself.

And my challenge stands. You cannot provide a single
article in a peer-reviewed scientific journal that
claims to show that Roundup is dangerous to humans
when used as directed.

Not one.

And so you make up this bullshit personal attack.

You really want to make me look bad? Provide
that article.

You cannot.

billo

In article ,
animaux wrote:
On 17 Aug 2003 23:14:50 GMT, (Bill Oliver) opined:

In article ,
paghat wrote:
I'm sure there aren't many who believe Billo when he advocates using
glyphosate as table salt...


This is, of course, untrue. You would be more convincing,
paghat, if you did not start off your screeds with an untruth,
and go downhill from there.

My claim was, and is, that Roundup is safe if used as
directed.

BANG! And there it is. What just about everyone else is advocating is that,
Roundup is NOT safe if used as directed. MONSANTO lies. University tests
funded by MONSANTO are LIES. Yes, LIES.


In other words, your claim that I advocate using glyphosate as
table salt is untrue. You cannot find a post where I say that
any more than you can find an article in a peer-reviewed scientific
article that makes the claim that Roundup is unsafe if used
as directed.

Not one post.

Not one article.


billo

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 05:52:49 -0700, Tom Jaszewski opined:

Ecofundamentalist? Cyberstalking?
Your jig is up, you defend from a vested interest and it's public
information, no different here than reading newspaper accounts in a
library. The advantage to the internet is the ability to more easily
reveal the reasoning behind the overly defensive stand.


And your jig is up.

Billo is like my neighbor who went out and bought as many bags of diazinon he
could so he would never run out when it is pulled off the market.

I don't understand how people could possibly be so ignorant. It boggles my
mind.