In article ,
says...


"Frank White" wrote in message
...

snip

snip vulgar and insulting comment from Don

Wow. I am in awe of your masterful debating style! You really
defended your position with wit and elegance, THERE!

**** off, pinhead.

To which bit of eloquence and maturity I can only reply...

I know you are, but what am I?

:P

FW

I have studied self sufficiency for many many years now, and i am slowly
making my way to becoming such. it's so much more than land, or climate or
anything like that

it's a lifestyle change, a soul change and mind change...

some of the number 1 blunders in people "getting back to the basics" are
caused by dreams and a lack of thought...

if your alone its dead easy, you eat as hard as you work...if you have a
family to support it's very different...

as for how much land? thats another story, dependant upon your climate you
need to plan for winter months, and what to eat then....what about heat?
water? all the things you talk of (off grid, rainwater, etc) those require
money and space to supplement what you're cutting yourself off from.

what if it doesn't rain for weeks? you have dead crops, animals and your
drinking ditch water boiled for 10 minutes filterd through a 15 year old
tshirt...

it's the most fullfilling thing on earth to sit down to a meal that your
sore muscles, bruised bones and bloodied fingers prepared....sitting by a
wood stove with wood in it your grew and cut...drinking water from a spring
that comes to your house by gravity -- that you dug....sitting on the porch
drinking beer/wine that you grew/malted/fermented yourself....

to answer your questions would take alot more detail from you, you have an
awesome dream...there are alot of good resources available to help get you
started (there is a great book i have read about that lifestyle, he makes
all the mistakes so you don't have to) there are several other books to get
that help you develop basic skills (such as, if your tools break or if your
tractor breaks, how to do you fix it? welding/blacksmithing/etc) subscribe
to some magazines, get in touch with locals (or non-locals) that are doing
the same thing, get your dream on paper, get it out so you can look at
it...ask yourself a million questions NOW, so you don't have to beat
yourself up over them when you didn't think of something later...

enjoy the quest, it's worth everything you put into it.

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
. ..
I see you know as much about diet as you do about *ownership* of
parks,
eh
Rick? LOL
=================
And I see you know even less. But then, that's not unexpected for
the
ignorant troll, eh little boy?

You still don't know anything about ownership, Rick.
=====================
Wow, what a coinsidence, neither do you.

Kinda funny, coming from a guy that thinks he owns the parks. LOL
======================
That's real funny from somebody that can't read. I never claimed I owned
them, i just asked for your proof that the poster you spew your ignorance
to
didn't.

LOL, there ya go again, Rick, showing off your ignorance.
Proof that someone *doesn't* own something..... LOL
We all see who the troll is here.

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
news
"Don" wrote in message
. ..

"rick etter" wrote
You're wrong, as usual...

LOL
There's something wrong with that boys circuit board.
=====================
I see you have nothing, again.

Looks like I hit a nerve. LOL
===============
Nope, Apparently I have, since all you have are these little two-bit
troll
bites. just can't answer the question, can you dolt?


But then, that's all we've come to expect
from you little boy...

What is it with you and little boys?
====================
They're jst like you. Claim something they can't back up.

What claim is that, Rick, that YOU don't own the parks?
YOU must prove your ownership,
=================
No goofball, i didn't claim that i did.

Oh, so now you're claiming you *don't* own the parks?
LOL, you're an indecisive little troll aren't you?

ou spewed your ignorance at
somebody else, and I asked for your si=upposed proof of *your* claim.

There ya go again, Rick, sticking your fat, pock marked nose in to someone
elses business and getting it swiftly slapped. LOL

not the other way around.
But YOU can't prove it, so you revert to whining and crying.
====================
No, you can't prove the claim you made, troll.

yawn

Your childish whining is becoming boring, Rick.
You haven't proven who owns the parks, you haven't proven that the poster
owns the parks, the only thing you have proven is how absolutely stupid you
are. And you keep proving it over and over.

I didn't make the original
statement, I asked you for the proof of your ignorant troll.

Talk about little boy.
==================
No, I'm talking *to* one, troll. Thanks for the continued laughs though!
With you around I'll live to be a real old man, what with laughter being
the
best medicine and all.

Are you still attracted to little boys, Rick?
You shut your fat mouth pretty quick when I brought you to task about them.
LOL
If so, I hope someone shoots you in the face.

"Frank White" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


"Frank White" wrote in message
...

snip

snip vulgar and insulting comment from Don

Wow. I am in awe of your masterful debating style! You really
defended your position with wit and elegance, THERE!

**** off, pinhead.

To which bit of eloquence and maturity I can only reply...

I know you are, but what am I?

You speak of maturity yet you quote PeeWee Herman.
Nice.

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
. ..


snippage...


I see you have absolutely nothing to add to any conversation, eh
troll?

Still own those parks, Rick?
====================
Answer who does troll.

Guess I hit a nerve, you stopped mentioning *little boys*. LOL
=====================
No, you've already admitted to being like one, no need to rub it in for
you,
eh troll? The only nerve hit here was apparently yours, since you keep
responding with anything except the proof of your original ignorant claim.
Although now you have at least admitted your ignorance on the subject, so
your original claim is just so much BS and troll bait, eh stupid?


YOU don't own the parks, Rick.
So stop crying and stamping your feet.
====================
And you continue to prove your ignornace troll. All I asked for was your
proof of your ignorant statement.
Apparently you can't provide it. Your ignorance must be terminal, eh
troll?

yawn

You STILL don't own the parks, Rick.
So stop crying, it's embarrassing.
Jeez, it was easy kicking your stupid ass. LOL

"Don" wrote in message
t...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
. ..


snippage...


I see you have absolutely nothing to add to any conversation, eh
troll?

Still own those parks, Rick?
====================
Answer who does troll.

Guess I hit a nerve, you stopped mentioning *little boys*. LOL
=====================
No, you've already admitted to being like one, no need to rub it in for
you,
eh troll? The only nerve hit here was apparently yours, since you keep
responding with anything except the proof of your original ignorant
claim.
Although now you have at least admitted your ignorance on the subject,
so
your original claim is just so much BS and troll bait, eh stupid?


YOU don't own the parks, Rick.
So stop crying and stamping your feet.
====================
And you continue to prove your ignornace troll. All I asked for was
your
proof of your ignorant statement.
Apparently you can't provide it. Your ignorance must be terminal, eh
troll?

yawn

You STILL don't own the parks, Rick.
=======================
Jeeze, with all the time you took, i'd have thought even you could find
something to back up *your* ignorant claim
Unlike you, I didn't make one. You made the claim, you need provide the
backing for your stupidity, not anybody else.



So stop crying, it's embarrassing.
Jeez, it was easy kicking your stupid ass. LOL
====================
You haven't done it yet fool. You again have failed to defend your ignorant
statement, so I guess you just admit that you were an ignorant fool to begin
with.
But, do keep it up, the laughter at your expense is great! As for
embarassing, if you weren't so stupid you'd realize that only you have
failed at kicking anything.

"Don" wrote in message
t...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
. ..
I see you know as much about diet as you do about *ownership*
of
parks,
eh
Rick? LOL
=================
And I see you know even less. But then, that's not unexpected
for
the
ignorant troll, eh little boy?

You still don't know anything about ownership, Rick.
=====================
Wow, what a coinsidence, neither do you.

Kinda funny, coming from a guy that thinks he owns the parks. LOL
======================
That's real funny from somebody that can't read. I never claimed I
owned
them, i just asked for your proof that the poster you spew your
ignorance
to
didn't.

LOL, there ya go again, Rick, showing off your ignorance.
Proof that someone *doesn't* own something..... LOL
We all see who the troll is here.
==================
Dodge, dodge, dodge.... Keep tap dancing loser, that's as funny to watch as
reading your ignorant spew...

"Don" wrote in message
t...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
news
"Don" wrote in message
. ..

"rick etter" wrote
You're wrong, as usual...

LOL
There's something wrong with that boys circuit board.
=====================
I see you have nothing, again.

Looks like I hit a nerve. LOL
===============
Nope, Apparently I have, since all you have are these little
two-bit
troll
bites. just can't answer the question, can you dolt?


But then, that's all we've come to expect
from you little boy...

What is it with you and little boys?
====================
They're jst like you. Claim something they can't back up.

What claim is that, Rick, that YOU don't own the parks?
YOU must prove your ownership,
=================
No goofball, i didn't claim that i did.

Oh, so now you're claiming you *don't* own the parks?
LOL, you're an indecisive little troll aren't you?

ou spewed your ignorance at
somebody else, and I asked for your si=upposed proof of *your* claim.

There ya go again, Rick, sticking your fat, pock marked nose in to someone
elses business and getting it swiftly slapped. LOL

not the other way around.
But YOU can't prove it, so you revert to whining and crying.
====================
No, you can't prove the claim you made, troll.

yawn

Your childish whining is becoming boring, Rick.
You haven't proven who owns the parks, you haven't proven that the poster
owns the parks, the only thing you have proven is how absolutely stupid
you
are. And you keep proving it over and over.

I didn't make the original
statement, I asked you for the proof of your ignorant troll.

Talk about little boy.
==================
No, I'm talking *to* one, troll. Thanks for the continued laughs
though!
With you around I'll live to be a real old man, what with laughter being
the
best medicine and all.

Are you still attracted to little boys, Rick?
=====================
No, that must be you, since you debate skills are at that level. What with
your profane spews to some threads.

You shut your fat mouth pretty quick when I brought you to task about
them.
LOL
If so, I hope someone shoots you in the face.
=======================
Nope, you already displayed that you are just a liitle boy trying to sound
grownup. Profanity just makes you more the fool, not grownup.

Ah, feel the compassion. You must be an AR/vegan loon too.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:33:40 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


You STILL don't own the parks, Rick.
=======================
Jeeze, with all the time you took, i'd have thought even you could find
something to back up *your* ignorant claim
Unlike you, I didn't make one. You made the claim, you need provide the
backing for your stupidity, not anybody else.



So stop crying, it's embarrassing.
Jeez, it was easy kicking your stupid ass. LOL
====================
You haven't done it yet fool. You again have failed to defend your ignorant
statement, so I guess you just admit that you were an ignorant fool to begin
with.
But, do keep it up, the laughter at your expense is great! As for
embarassing, if you weren't so stupid you'd realize that only you have
failed at kicking anything.

You're still wasting your time with the idiot, don? I'd go a couple
of rounds with him and realize it was like arguing with a 2 year old.
Absolutely no point. I'd wait a couple of months and try it again,
hoping he'd have picked up some new dance steps but, no. Boring as
hell. He can't get out of the box step mentality.
Sue

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:39:38 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


"Don" wrote in message
et...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
. ..
I see you know as much about diet as you do about *ownership*
of
parks,
eh
Rick? LOL
=================
And I see you know even less. But then, that's not unexpected
for
the
ignorant troll, eh little boy?

You still don't know anything about ownership, Rick.
=====================
Wow, what a coinsidence, neither do you.

Kinda funny, coming from a guy that thinks he owns the parks. LOL
======================
That's real funny from somebody that can't read. I never claimed I
owned
them, i just asked for your proof that the poster you spew your
ignorance
to
didn't.

LOL, there ya go again, Rick, showing off your ignorance.
Proof that someone *doesn't* own something..... LOL
We all see who the troll is here.
==================
Dodge, dodge, dodge.... Keep tap dancing loser, that's as funny to watch as
reading your ignorant spew...

don knows how to tap dance? Seemed to me he was stuck in the box
step and needed some Arthur Murray lessons.
Sue

In article ,
says...


"Frank White" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


"Frank White" wrote in message
...

snip

snip vulgar and insulting comment from Don

Wow. I am in awe of your masterful debating style! You really
defended your position with wit and elegance, THERE!

**** off, pinhead.

To which bit of eloquence and maturity I can only reply...

I know you are, but what am I?

You speak of maturity yet you quote PeeWee Herman.
Nice.

I know you are, but what am I?

FW

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
t...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
. ..
I see you know as much about diet as you do about
*ownership*
of
parks,
eh
Rick? LOL
=================
And I see you know even less. But then, that's not unexpected
for
the
ignorant troll, eh little boy?

You still don't know anything about ownership, Rick.
=====================
Wow, what a coinsidence, neither do you.

Kinda funny, coming from a guy that thinks he owns the parks. LOL
======================
That's real funny from somebody that can't read. I never claimed I
owned
them, i just asked for your proof that the poster you spew your
ignorance
to
didn't.

LOL, there ya go again, Rick, showing off your ignorance.
Proof that someone *doesn't* own something..... LOL
We all see who the troll is here.
==================
Dodge, dodge, dodge.... Keep tap dancing loser, that's as funny to watch
as
reading your ignorant spew...

Still drinking moose ****? LOL

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
t...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
news
"Don" wrote in message
. ..

"rick etter" wrote
You're wrong, as usual...

LOL
There's something wrong with that boys circuit board.
=====================
I see you have nothing, again.

Looks like I hit a nerve. LOL
===============
Nope, Apparently I have, since all you have are these little
two-bit
troll
bites. just can't answer the question, can you dolt?


But then, that's all we've come to expect
from you little boy...

What is it with you and little boys?
====================
They're jst like you. Claim something they can't back up.

What claim is that, Rick, that YOU don't own the parks?
YOU must prove your ownership,
=================
No goofball, i didn't claim that i did.

Oh, so now you're claiming you *don't* own the parks?
LOL, you're an indecisive little troll aren't you?

ou spewed your ignorance at
somebody else, and I asked for your si=upposed proof of *your* claim.

There ya go again, Rick, sticking your fat, pock marked nose in to
someone
elses business and getting it swiftly slapped. LOL

not the other way around.
But YOU can't prove it, so you revert to whining and crying.
====================
No, you can't prove the claim you made, troll.

yawn

Your childish whining is becoming boring, Rick.
You haven't proven who owns the parks, you haven't proven that the
poster
owns the parks, the only thing you have proven is how absolutely stupid
you
are. And you keep proving it over and over.

I didn't make the original
statement, I asked you for the proof of your ignorant troll.

Talk about little boy.
==================
No, I'm talking *to* one, troll. Thanks for the continued laughs
though!
With you around I'll live to be a real old man, what with laughter
being
the
best medicine and all.

Are you still attracted to little boys, Rick?
=====================
No, that must be you, since you debate skills are at that level. What
with
your profane spews to some threads.

You shut your fat mouth pretty quick when I brought you to task about
them.
LOL
If so, I hope someone shoots you in the face.
=======================
Nope, you already displayed that you are just a liitle boy trying to
sound
grownup. Profanity just makes you more the fool, not grownup.

Ah, feel the compassion. You must be an AR/vegan loon too.

Lots of others have called you a moron too, Rick.
Still drinking moose ****? LOL

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
t...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Don" wrote in message
. ..
I see you know as much about diet as you do about
*ownership*
of
parks,
eh
Rick? LOL
=================
And I see you know even less. But then, that's not unexpected
for
the
ignorant troll, eh little boy?

You still don't know anything about ownership, Rick.
=====================
Wow, what a coinsidence, neither do you.

Kinda funny, coming from a guy that thinks he owns the parks. LOL
======================
That's real funny from somebody that can't read. I never claimed I
owned
them, i just asked for your proof that the poster you spew your
ignorance
to
didn't.

LOL, there ya go again, Rick, showing off your ignorance.
Proof that someone *doesn't* own something..... LOL
We all see who the troll is here.
==================
Dodge, dodge, dodge.... Keep tap dancing loser, that's as funny to watch
as
reading your ignorant spew...

Still drinking moose ****? LOL