Janet Bledsoe wrote:
I wouldn't call it snippy. It is more like -- they are disrespectful.


Respect is earned. Asking others to do your homework doesn't earn you
any respect.

In other words, if you're coming here asking very basic questions that
can be answered with a simple Google search, you're asking people to do
your homework. That's different from asking difficult questions, or
asking questions that put the answers found into context. Sometimes the
line between the two is pretty wide and gray, but there are plenty of
examples of people asking others to do their homework. The folks asking
those questions haven't earned any respect, and will likely get snippy
answers.

Also, when you get beyond the basics, and into the areas where people
disagree, you're going to see disagreements. People who repeat old wives
tales as if they're scientific evidence have earned no respect, and are
likely to get snippy responses.

Once you weed out those situations, I'm sure you'll still find some
disrespectful posts here. That's human nature. Does it rise to the level
that makes "mean spirited" an accurate description of this group? No, it
doesn't. At least not to people who get out of their gardens and live in
the real world on a regular basis.

On the other hand, to someone who has retreated into their garden to
escape the rest of the world and the way it isn't always touchy-feely,
warm-puppy nice may find the real people in who frequent this group to
be far too course, snippy or disrespectful. And for them, there are
plenty of web forums that attempt to sanitize human relations to a level
that's acceptable to them. Of course if you go that route, some very
good discussions will be lost because people are afraid to disagree with
someone else, and have the moderator decide that they no longer can
continue to be a member of the forum.

To each his own. I'll take this snippy group with all it's unmitigated
knowledge over a touchy-feely web forum any day.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

Except that you think you are some kind of "Will Rogers" out of nowhere.


"MC" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:35:06 -0800, kensnow wrote:


You know, I've been back and forth with this group over the years;
usually lurking, occasionally posting an answer if I have one to
give.

But this year I see the group has become pretty meanspirited.
Everyone directs inquirers to other sources, never giving their
experience, thoughts or whatever, and now including a few snipes like
read the label, look it up, do it yourself, etc. etc. etc.

This sure isn't the group it used to be.

What happened to the friendly people that used to be here? Have they
been driven away?

Yes, I'm out of here.
KS


Something I have noted are the number of "experts". Everyone's an expert
these days, it seems.

Except that you think you are some kind of "Will Rogers" out of nowhere.


"MC" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:35:06 -0800, kensnow wrote:


You know, I've been back and forth with this group over the years;
usually lurking, occasionally posting an answer if I have one to
give.

But this year I see the group has become pretty meanspirited.
Everyone directs inquirers to other sources, never giving their
experience, thoughts or whatever, and now including a few snipes like
read the label, look it up, do it yourself, etc. etc. etc.

This sure isn't the group it used to be.

What happened to the friendly people that used to be here? Have they
been driven away?

Yes, I'm out of here.
KS


Something I have noted are the number of "experts". Everyone's an expert
these days, it seems.

[a recent rant]
All the various comments on this topic basically point to one thing in
common. The general population as a whle is getting lazier every year,
and its just too easy to pass the buck and let others do your job. Be
it looking something up, or taking responsibilitiy on your job to do
what your actually being paid to do.

Americans on a whole are getting very very lazy, and it don;'t stop at
americas borders either!


There are elements of truth in the "everyone is lazy" argument (although
it is a wide generalization), but I don't think it addresses the
original poster. Here is a newsgroup populated by people who claim to be
interested in recreational gardening. It is only natural for someone
with a question on that subject to ask for opinions. I don't think
that's "not doing their homework". That's going to a convenient source
for answers. Maybe not the best source (given the multitude of opinions
out there), but the quickest. You might call going to the most
convenient source lazy; I'd call it a response to the ever-increasing
pace of life these days. A lack of patience is another symptom.

More to the point is the set of rude answers to new posters. In any
newsgroup populated by a group of regulars, those regulars may be
expected to post rude comments at each other occasionally (some more
than others). After all, friends can insult each other without making or
taking offense. Depends on the individuals.

Suppose your car developed an annoying squeek, whistle, thump and/or
groan. If you took it to a local repair place, would you expect to be
cursed out for not looking up those symptoms on the internet or at your
local library so you could tell them just what the problem was? If you
call up Car Talk, you might get that, but they laugh when they do that
so you know they don't really mean it. Why then should someone looking
for information here be insulted by people they don't know just because
someone thinks their question is stupid?

It is written: there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

A few years ago, a Japanese ambassador got in trouble for publicly saying
that Americans are lazy and stupid. He was forced to apologize for boasting
that bit of Nippon arrogance.

Compared to most Eastern cultures that would be true but you must also
consider that the Japanese have the highest suicide rate. So they do pay
dearly for being a culture of obsessive workaholics!!!

The Germans are also a work obsessed people.

If the Germans and Japanese ever got organized, they could take over the
world.

Oops, didn't they try to do that already?

BTW, there are plenty of stupid questions. The most stupid ones are those
someone asks when they already know the answer and then they argue with you
when you didn't tell them what they want to hear. That is both stupid and a
waste of time.

This isn't Car Talk, Roadkill. Newsgroups are not a public service or a dog
and pony show for your entertainment nor are they your mother.


"Dwight Sipler" wrote in message
...
[a recent rant]
All the various comments on this topic basically point to one thing in
common. The general population as a whle is getting lazier every year,
and its just too easy to pass the buck and let others do your job. Be
it looking something up, or taking responsibilitiy on your job to do
what your actually being paid to do.

Americans on a whole are getting very very lazy, and it don;'t stop at
americas borders either!


There are elements of truth in the "everyone is lazy" argument (although
it is a wide generalization), but I don't think it addresses the
original poster. Here is a newsgroup populated by people who claim to be
interested in recreational gardening. It is only natural for someone
with a question on that subject to ask for opinions. I don't think
that's "not doing their homework". That's going to a convenient source
for answers. Maybe not the best source (given the multitude of opinions
out there), but the quickest. You might call going to the most
convenient source lazy; I'd call it a response to the ever-increasing
pace of life these days. A lack of patience is another symptom.

More to the point is the set of rude answers to new posters. In any
newsgroup populated by a group of regulars, those regulars may be
expected to post rude comments at each other occasionally (some more
than others). After all, friends can insult each other without making or
taking offense. Depends on the individuals.

Suppose your car developed an annoying squeek, whistle, thump and/or
groan. If you took it to a local repair place, would you expect to be
cursed out for not looking up those symptoms on the internet or at your
local library so you could tell them just what the problem was? If you
call up Car Talk, you might get that, but they laugh when they do that
so you know they don't really mean it. Why then should someone looking
for information here be insulted by people they don't know just because
someone thinks their question is stupid?

It is written: there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

[a recent rant]
All the various comments on this topic basically point to one thing in
common. The general population as a whle is getting lazier every year,
and its just too easy to pass the buck and let others do your job. Be
it looking something up, or taking responsibilitiy on your job to do
what your actually being paid to do.

Americans on a whole are getting very very lazy, and it don;'t stop at
americas borders either!


There are elements of truth in the "everyone is lazy" argument (although
it is a wide generalization), but I don't think it addresses the
original poster. Here is a newsgroup populated by people who claim to be
interested in recreational gardening. It is only natural for someone
with a question on that subject to ask for opinions. I don't think
that's "not doing their homework". That's going to a convenient source
for answers. Maybe not the best source (given the multitude of opinions
out there), but the quickest. You might call going to the most
convenient source lazy; I'd call it a response to the ever-increasing
pace of life these days. A lack of patience is another symptom.

More to the point is the set of rude answers to new posters. In any
newsgroup populated by a group of regulars, those regulars may be
expected to post rude comments at each other occasionally (some more
than others). After all, friends can insult each other without making or
taking offense. Depends on the individuals.

Suppose your car developed an annoying squeek, whistle, thump and/or
groan. If you took it to a local repair place, would you expect to be
cursed out for not looking up those symptoms on the internet or at your
local library so you could tell them just what the problem was? If you
call up Car Talk, you might get that, but they laugh when they do that
so you know they don't really mean it. Why then should someone looking
for information here be insulted by people they don't know just because
someone thinks their question is stupid?

It is written: there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

A few years ago, a Japanese ambassador got in trouble for publicly saying
that Americans are lazy and stupid. He was forced to apologize for boasting
that bit of Nippon arrogance.

Compared to most Eastern cultures that would be true but you must also
consider that the Japanese have the highest suicide rate. So they do pay
dearly for being a culture of obsessive workaholics!!!

The Germans are also a work obsessed people.

If the Germans and Japanese ever got organized, they could take over the
world.

Oops, didn't they try to do that already?

BTW, there are plenty of stupid questions. The most stupid ones are those
someone asks when they already know the answer and then they argue with you
when you didn't tell them what they want to hear. That is both stupid and a
waste of time.

This isn't Car Talk, Roadkill. Newsgroups are not a public service or a dog
and pony show for your entertainment nor are they your mother.


"Dwight Sipler" wrote in message
...
[a recent rant]
All the various comments on this topic basically point to one thing in
common. The general population as a whle is getting lazier every year,
and its just too easy to pass the buck and let others do your job. Be
it looking something up, or taking responsibilitiy on your job to do
what your actually being paid to do.

Americans on a whole are getting very very lazy, and it don;'t stop at
americas borders either!


There are elements of truth in the "everyone is lazy" argument (although
it is a wide generalization), but I don't think it addresses the
original poster. Here is a newsgroup populated by people who claim to be
interested in recreational gardening. It is only natural for someone
with a question on that subject to ask for opinions. I don't think
that's "not doing their homework". That's going to a convenient source
for answers. Maybe not the best source (given the multitude of opinions
out there), but the quickest. You might call going to the most
convenient source lazy; I'd call it a response to the ever-increasing
pace of life these days. A lack of patience is another symptom.

More to the point is the set of rude answers to new posters. In any
newsgroup populated by a group of regulars, those regulars may be
expected to post rude comments at each other occasionally (some more
than others). After all, friends can insult each other without making or
taking offense. Depends on the individuals.

Suppose your car developed an annoying squeek, whistle, thump and/or
groan. If you took it to a local repair place, would you expect to be
cursed out for not looking up those symptoms on the internet or at your
local library so you could tell them just what the problem was? If you
call up Car Talk, you might get that, but they laugh when they do that
so you know they don't really mean it. Why then should someone looking
for information here be insulted by people they don't know just because
someone thinks their question is stupid?

It is written: there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

[a recent rant]
All the various comments on this topic basically point to one thing in
common. The general population as a whle is getting lazier every year,
and its just too easy to pass the buck and let others do your job. Be
it looking something up, or taking responsibilitiy on your job to do
what your actually being paid to do.

Americans on a whole are getting very very lazy, and it don;'t stop at
americas borders either!


There are elements of truth in the "everyone is lazy" argument (although
it is a wide generalization), but I don't think it addresses the
original poster. Here is a newsgroup populated by people who claim to be
interested in recreational gardening. It is only natural for someone
with a question on that subject to ask for opinions. I don't think
that's "not doing their homework". That's going to a convenient source
for answers. Maybe not the best source (given the multitude of opinions
out there), but the quickest. You might call going to the most
convenient source lazy; I'd call it a response to the ever-increasing
pace of life these days. A lack of patience is another symptom.

More to the point is the set of rude answers to new posters. In any
newsgroup populated by a group of regulars, those regulars may be
expected to post rude comments at each other occasionally (some more
than others). After all, friends can insult each other without making or
taking offense. Depends on the individuals.

Suppose your car developed an annoying squeek, whistle, thump and/or
groan. If you took it to a local repair place, would you expect to be
cursed out for not looking up those symptoms on the internet or at your
local library so you could tell them just what the problem was? If you
call up Car Talk, you might get that, but they laugh when they do that
so you know they don't really mean it. Why then should someone looking
for information here be insulted by people they don't know just because
someone thinks their question is stupid?

It is written: there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:01:25 GMT, "Warren" opined:

Janet Bledsoe wrote:
I wouldn't call it snippy. It is more like -- they are disrespectful.


Respect is earned. Asking others to do your homework doesn't earn you
any respect.

(...)

Ya know, this is so true. The other day an acquaintance of mine asked if I knew
a good source for herbal, elemental values. Her chiropractor wanted to make
recommendations for foods people could eat which contain, say, zinc...etc.

I told her he has a whole Internet. He told her he wouldn't touch a computer.

Oh, I see. So I told her to do a search online and she said she came up with
nothing.

How is it then, that I came up with about 15 websites which could be used for
such information? I mean, I did it on google. Nothing special.

Then, she asked if I could print it all out! HUH!?

Another person was downloading something from me. Some Dharma teachings. He
messages me and asks if I could make him copies onto CDs of all my files on
Dharma. UH WHAT? That would take about 100 CDs. Oh, he also wanted me to
mail them to him in Germany.

So, I suppose after being online for so many years I'm pretty intolerant of
people who don't merely want your particular experience with this or that plant.
They want to ask, be answered, then, when they don't LIKE the answer get ****ed
off.

Blessssssch.

A few years ago, a Japanese ambassador got in trouble for publicly saying
that Americans are lazy and stupid. He was forced to apologize for boasting
that bit of Nippon arrogance.

Compared to most Eastern cultures that would be true but you must also
consider that the Japanese have the highest suicide rate. So they do pay
dearly for being a culture of obsessive workaholics!!!

The Germans are also a work obsessed people.

If the Germans and Japanese ever got organized, they could take over the
world.

Oops, didn't they try to do that already?

BTW, there are plenty of stupid questions. The most stupid ones are those
someone asks when they already know the answer and then they argue with you
when you didn't tell them what they want to hear. That is both stupid and a
waste of time.

This isn't Car Talk, Roadkill. Newsgroups are not a public service or a dog
and pony show for your entertainment nor are they your mother.


"Dwight Sipler" wrote in message
...
[a recent rant]
All the various comments on this topic basically point to one thing in
common. The general population as a whle is getting lazier every year,
and its just too easy to pass the buck and let others do your job. Be
it looking something up, or taking responsibilitiy on your job to do
what your actually being paid to do.

Americans on a whole are getting very very lazy, and it don;'t stop at
americas borders either!


There are elements of truth in the "everyone is lazy" argument (although
it is a wide generalization), but I don't think it addresses the
original poster. Here is a newsgroup populated by people who claim to be
interested in recreational gardening. It is only natural for someone
with a question on that subject to ask for opinions. I don't think
that's "not doing their homework". That's going to a convenient source
for answers. Maybe not the best source (given the multitude of opinions
out there), but the quickest. You might call going to the most
convenient source lazy; I'd call it a response to the ever-increasing
pace of life these days. A lack of patience is another symptom.

More to the point is the set of rude answers to new posters. In any
newsgroup populated by a group of regulars, those regulars may be
expected to post rude comments at each other occasionally (some more
than others). After all, friends can insult each other without making or
taking offense. Depends on the individuals.

Suppose your car developed an annoying squeek, whistle, thump and/or
groan. If you took it to a local repair place, would you expect to be
cursed out for not looking up those symptoms on the internet or at your
local library so you could tell them just what the problem was? If you
call up Car Talk, you might get that, but they laugh when they do that
so you know they don't really mean it. Why then should someone looking
for information here be insulted by people they don't know just because
someone thinks their question is stupid?

It is written: there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:01:25 GMT, "Warren" opined:

Janet Bledsoe wrote:
I wouldn't call it snippy. It is more like -- they are disrespectful.


Respect is earned. Asking others to do your homework doesn't earn you
any respect.

(...)

Ya know, this is so true. The other day an acquaintance of mine asked if I knew
a good source for herbal, elemental values. Her chiropractor wanted to make
recommendations for foods people could eat which contain, say, zinc...etc.

I told her he has a whole Internet. He told her he wouldn't touch a computer.

Oh, I see. So I told her to do a search online and she said she came up with
nothing.

How is it then, that I came up with about 15 websites which could be used for
such information? I mean, I did it on google. Nothing special.

Then, she asked if I could print it all out! HUH!?

Another person was downloading something from me. Some Dharma teachings. He
messages me and asks if I could make him copies onto CDs of all my files on
Dharma. UH WHAT? That would take about 100 CDs. Oh, he also wanted me to
mail them to him in Germany.

So, I suppose after being online for so many years I'm pretty intolerant of
people who don't merely want your particular experience with this or that plant.
They want to ask, be answered, then, when they don't LIKE the answer get ****ed
off.

Blessssssch.

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:01:25 GMT, "Warren" opined:

Janet Bledsoe wrote:
I wouldn't call it snippy. It is more like -- they are disrespectful.


Respect is earned. Asking others to do your homework doesn't earn you
any respect.

(...)

Ya know, this is so true. The other day an acquaintance of mine asked if I knew
a good source for herbal, elemental values. Her chiropractor wanted to make
recommendations for foods people could eat which contain, say, zinc...etc.

I told her he has a whole Internet. He told her he wouldn't touch a computer.

Oh, I see. So I told her to do a search online and she said she came up with
nothing.

How is it then, that I came up with about 15 websites which could be used for
such information? I mean, I did it on google. Nothing special.

Then, she asked if I could print it all out! HUH!?

Another person was downloading something from me. Some Dharma teachings. He
messages me and asks if I could make him copies onto CDs of all my files on
Dharma. UH WHAT? That would take about 100 CDs. Oh, he also wanted me to
mail them to him in Germany.

So, I suppose after being online for so many years I'm pretty intolerant of
people who don't merely want your particular experience with this or that plant.
They want to ask, be answered, then, when they don't LIKE the answer get ****ed
off.

Blessssssch.

Cereus-validus wrote:

Newsgroups are not a .........dog and pony show for your entertainment

Man, you've got that wrong

Cereus-validus wrote:

Newsgroups are not a .........dog and pony show for your entertainment

Man, you've got that wrong

Usenet newsgroups are the best form of entertainment going! Much more
than a dog and pony show. I may never learn anything but I sure can
stay entertained. Pick a group, any group, it does not matter they all
are the same!


On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:19:29 -0500, ChiaPets
wrote:

===
===
===Cereus-validus wrote:
===
=== Newsgroups are not a .........dog and pony show for your entertainment
===
===Man, you've got that wrong

Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.