"Reka" wrote in message ...
"theoneflasehaddock" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message
.net...
I'm no orchid vendor, just a small time orchid grower, so I don't really
know which entry points in the USA are tighter on plant inspection. I
can
however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the
mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as
well as
when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even
want
to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now,
I
didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found
it
very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the
boxes....



CITES deals with international trade, and Hawaii is part of the US.
You can send plants to and from Hawaii just like any other state.
-
Yes, but don't they still need Phyto when traveling into Hawaii? They don't
need any coming from there though, do they?

I had forgotten about that. Thanks for the correction.

-
theoneflasehaddock

"Reka" wrote in message ...
"theoneflasehaddock" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...
"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message
.net...
I'm no orchid vendor, just a small time orchid grower, so I don't really
know which entry points in the USA are tighter on plant inspection. I
can
however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the
mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as
well as
when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even
want
to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now,
I
didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found
it
very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the
boxes....



CITES deals with international trade, and Hawaii is part of the US.
You can send plants to and from Hawaii just like any other state.
-
Yes, but don't they still need Phyto when traveling into Hawaii? They don't
need any coming from there though, do they?

I had forgotten about that. Thanks for the correction.

-
theoneflasehaddock

"Ray" wrote in message ...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

-
theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

"Ray" wrote in message ...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

-
theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

"Ray" wrote in message ...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

-
theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

(theoneflasehaddock) wrote in message om...

Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.


I didn't see a URL in your message, but I'm guessing you mean the
relatively newly started "Wild Orchid Company"
(www.wildorchidcompany.com) in which case, yes, all the evidence
suggests he's quite legit. He spoke at one of my local OS's and has
made the rounds of regional OS's to some extent, and appears to have
contacts with a number of the older, perfecty reputable cyp nurseries.

Most cyp nurseries seem to sell out very early in the season, so you
can't really make any assumptions about how many plants might be
available from a simple listing. And since this guy only started up a
year or 2 ago, it stands to reason that his stock of art prop plants
isn't as big as it will be when he's had a chance to grow out what
he's got in flask and really get into the swing of a breeding program.

MG

On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message ...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

You're kidding, right?

Having "documented salvage" plants does not mean that 100% of the stock is
of that category. The gentleman who runs that nursery is VERY sensitive to
maintaining natural populations - to the point of withholding the locations
of the natural populations he's worked with.

Any implication otherwise is either ignorant or trolling. I hope it's the
former, as it at least implies no malicious intent.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Janice" wrote in message
...
On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves
up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

Maybe I should also point out to those wishing to construe otherwise that
this nursery is working very hard to breed captive populations that 1) will
reduce demand on the natural ones, and 2) actually replenish them!

I wish ignorance was painful. It would be self-controlling.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Ray" wrote in message
...
You're kidding, right?

Having "documented salvage" plants does not mean that 100% of the stock
is
of that category. The gentleman who runs that nursery is VERY sensitive
to
maintaining natural populations - to the point of withholding the
locations
of the natural populations he's worked with.

Any implication otherwise is either ignorant or trolling. I hope it's the
former, as it at least implies no malicious intent.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Janice" wrote in message
...
On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind
of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig
themselves
up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of
them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

(theoneflasehaddock) wrote in message om...

Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.


I didn't see a URL in your message, but I'm guessing you mean the
relatively newly started "Wild Orchid Company"
(www.wildorchidcompany.com) in which case, yes, all the evidence
suggests he's quite legit. He spoke at one of my local OS's and has
made the rounds of regional OS's to some extent, and appears to have
contacts with a number of the older, perfecty reputable cyp nurseries.

Most cyp nurseries seem to sell out very early in the season, so you
can't really make any assumptions about how many plants might be
available from a simple listing. And since this guy only started up a
year or 2 ago, it stands to reason that his stock of art prop plants
isn't as big as it will be when he's had a chance to grow out what
he's got in flask and really get into the swing of a breeding program.

MG

(theoneflasehaddock) wrote in message om...

Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.


I didn't see a URL in your message, but I'm guessing you mean the
relatively newly started "Wild Orchid Company"
(www.wildorchidcompany.com) in which case, yes, all the evidence
suggests he's quite legit. He spoke at one of my local OS's and has
made the rounds of regional OS's to some extent, and appears to have
contacts with a number of the older, perfecty reputable cyp nurseries.

Most cyp nurseries seem to sell out very early in the season, so you
can't really make any assumptions about how many plants might be
available from a simple listing. And since this guy only started up a
year or 2 ago, it stands to reason that his stock of art prop plants
isn't as big as it will be when he's had a chance to grow out what
he's got in flask and really get into the swing of a breeding program.

MG

On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message ...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message ...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

(theoneflasehaddock) wrote in message om...

Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.


I didn't see a URL in your message, but I'm guessing you mean the
relatively newly started "Wild Orchid Company"
(www.wildorchidcompany.com) in which case, yes, all the evidence
suggests he's quite legit. He spoke at one of my local OS's and has
made the rounds of regional OS's to some extent, and appears to have
contacts with a number of the older, perfecty reputable cyp nurseries.

Most cyp nurseries seem to sell out very early in the season, so you
can't really make any assumptions about how many plants might be
available from a simple listing. And since this guy only started up a
year or 2 ago, it stands to reason that his stock of art prop plants
isn't as big as it will be when he's had a chance to grow out what
he's got in flask and really get into the swing of a breeding program.

MG

You're kidding, right?

Having "documented salvage" plants does not mean that 100% of the stock is
of that category. The gentleman who runs that nursery is VERY sensitive to
maintaining natural populations - to the point of withholding the locations
of the natural populations he's worked with.

Any implication otherwise is either ignorant or trolling. I hope it's the
former, as it at least implies no malicious intent.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Janice" wrote in message
...
On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves
up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave