Maybe I should also point out to those wishing to construe otherwise that
this nursery is working very hard to breed captive populations that 1) will
reduce demand on the natural ones, and 2) actually replenish them!

I wish ignorance was painful. It would be self-controlling.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Ray" wrote in message
...
You're kidding, right?

Having "documented salvage" plants does not mean that 100% of the stock
is
of that category. The gentleman who runs that nursery is VERY sensitive
to
maintaining natural populations - to the point of withholding the
locations
of the natural populations he's worked with.

Any implication otherwise is either ignorant or trolling. I hope it's the
former, as it at least implies no malicious intent.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Janice" wrote in message
...
On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind
of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig
themselves
up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of
them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

You're kidding, right?

Having "documented salvage" plants does not mean that 100% of the stock is
of that category. The gentleman who runs that nursery is VERY sensitive to
maintaining natural populations - to the point of withholding the locations
of the natural populations he's worked with.

Any implication otherwise is either ignorant or trolling. I hope it's the
former, as it at least implies no malicious intent.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Janice" wrote in message
...
On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves
up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

Maybe I should also point out to those wishing to construe otherwise that
this nursery is working very hard to breed captive populations that 1) will
reduce demand on the natural ones, and 2) actually replenish them!

I wish ignorance was painful. It would be self-controlling.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Ray" wrote in message
...
You're kidding, right?

Having "documented salvage" plants does not mean that 100% of the stock
is
of that category. The gentleman who runs that nursery is VERY sensitive
to
maintaining natural populations - to the point of withholding the
locations
of the natural populations he's worked with.

Any implication otherwise is either ignorant or trolling. I hope it's the
former, as it at least implies no malicious intent.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Janice" wrote in message
...
On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind
of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig
themselves
up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to
investigate.

Janice

theoneflasehaddock


--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:33:38 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

That seems a little harsh. Do I detect a personal bone to pick?
Just a touch, had a nice group of cow horn orchids on a piece of
property that I enjoyed watching for years (South Floorida), until
some sob came in at night and cleaned out the whole lot of
them....I
have no patience for unscrupulous wild collectors. Get permission,
sample some and make clones whatever but don't strip mine an entire
colony....

Rant Mode Off Ray...


Dave

I have a small clump of cypripedium from a farm in New England hanging on
(just barely, I imagine) in the inland Northwest. The guy who gave it to me
sent it when he was moving to the San Francisco Bay area, sure that he would
never be able to buy any commercially, and was unsure that a clump would
survive the climate of California. I have it in a shady bed, and I rake
lots of leaves over it every fall - but I have read that it has complex
symbiotic relationships with soil fungi, etc. so I know its survival here is
iffy. I have had it now for 5 years. I will be checking in the next few
weeks to see if it has survived this winter. There is no one who can fail to
be enchanted by the sight of the precious little slippers when they open
however. If it survives long enough - and maybe even spreads a little -
there might be a tiny non-new England population to try to propagate from.

I have a small clump of cypripedium from a farm in New England hanging on
(just barely, I imagine) in the inland Northwest. The guy who gave it to me
sent it when he was moving to the San Francisco Bay area, sure that he would
never be able to buy any commercially, and was unsure that a clump would
survive the climate of California. I have it in a shady bed, and I rake
lots of leaves over it every fall - but I have read that it has complex
symbiotic relationships with soil fungi, etc. so I know its survival here is
iffy. I have had it now for 5 years. I will be checking in the next few
weeks to see if it has survived this winter. There is no one who can fail to
be enchanted by the sight of the precious little slippers when they open
however. If it survives long enough - and maybe even spreads a little -
there might be a tiny non-new England population to try to propagate from.

I have a small clump of cypripedium from a farm in New England hanging on
(just barely, I imagine) in the inland Northwest. The guy who gave it to me
sent it when he was moving to the San Francisco Bay area, sure that he would
never be able to buy any commercially, and was unsure that a clump would
survive the climate of California. I have it in a shady bed, and I rake
lots of leaves over it every fall - but I have read that it has complex
symbiotic relationships with soil fungi, etc. so I know its survival here is
iffy. I have had it now for 5 years. I will be checking in the next few
weeks to see if it has survived this winter. There is no one who can fail to
be enchanted by the sight of the precious little slippers when they open
however. If it survives long enough - and maybe even spreads a little -
there might be a tiny non-new England population to try to propagate from.

Whoooooooooo nelly....are you for real? if you're suspecious turn them in?
holly god, what's next?

Now that gives me the hibbyjibbies,
Mariana



"Janice" wrote in message
...
On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves
up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to

Whoooooooooo nelly....are you for real? if you're suspecious turn them in?
holly god, what's next?

Now that gives me the hibbyjibbies,
Mariana



"Janice" wrote in message
...
On 17 Mar 2004 06:46:32 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I fully understand how having your place robbed would **** you off!

I had some Cyps growing in my yard here in PA that did the same kind of
walkabout. I still wonder where they go the shovels to dig themselves
up.


Here's a website from a company in PA that sells "documented salvage"
Cypripediums. It seems highly suspicious they would have enough of
"salvaged" plants to meet the demand for orders for three species.

At the time I had first seen this link, they had much less of the
other orchids listed, and were mostly cypripediums from "documented
salvage".

Just wondering as to your opinion if the site is legitimate and
getting large numbers of Cypripediums somehow legally, or poachers.

I've posted this on another forum, and found it posted on gardenweb,
where people were discussing whether they thought it was poachers or
not. I don't know if it is or isn't, but I believe it sounds
suspicious.

Turn them in to the governing body .. whoever they may be .. for
investigation. Could it be they salvaged the original plants and
raised more from them?

Probably not, but it's a possibility. How many could there be left in
the wild if they're "salvaging" enough to be advertising them all the
time? Could it be a bait and switch deal? Any number of possible
scenarios, but if you're suspicious, find out who would be the ones to
do the investigation. Write to the company and ask how many they had
available to sell.

If it's a lot, well send that along to the governing body to

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:21:19 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote in Message-Id: :

GOOD GROWING, THE OLD ORCHID FELON

Here's another news article:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/2447450

I really have to wonder about the quotes, as they are remarkably different
than the way George tells it.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:21:19 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote in Message-Id: :

GOOD GROWING, THE OLD ORCHID FELON

Here's another news article:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/2447450

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:54:28 -0500, "Ray"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

I really have to wonder about the quotes, as they are remarkably different
than the way George tells it.

Can you cite any specific examples?

I probably can, but doing so adds fuel to a fire I don't care to support.

Look them up yourself, if it's that important to you. I don't mean this to
be an affront or anything, it's just that I don't feel it adds to this
group.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:54:28 -0500, "Ray"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

I really have to wonder about the quotes, as they are remarkably
different
than the way George tells it.

Can you cite any specific examples?

I probably can, but doing so adds fuel to a fire I don't care to support.

Look them up yourself, if it's that important to you. I don't mean this to
be an affront or anything, it's just that I don't feel it adds to this
group.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:54:28 -0500, "Ray"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

I really have to wonder about the quotes, as they are remarkably
different
than the way George tells it.

Can you cite any specific examples?

I probably can, but doing so adds fuel to a fire I don't care to support.

Look them up yourself, if it's that important to you. I don't mean this to
be an affront or anything, it's just that I don't feel it adds to this
group.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:54:28 -0500, "Ray"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

I really have to wonder about the quotes, as they are remarkably
different
than the way George tells it.

Can you cite any specific examples?

I probably can, but doing so adds fuel to a fire I don't care to support.

Look them up yourself, if it's that important to you. I don't mean this to
be an affront or anything, it's just that I don't feel it adds to this
group.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:54:28 -0500, "Ray"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

I really have to wonder about the quotes, as they are remarkably
different
than the way George tells it.

Can you cite any specific examples?