"Go Fig" wrote in message
...
snip
For years here, some posters here have singled out UVs for this
'natural' argument, I don't get it... what could be more unnatural than
an electric water pump ??? UV is a natural occurring action on all
ponds, natural or ornamental.
snip

I'll bite on this one, but first let me say I am not against UV. I think UV
clarifiers have a place in ponds, when desired. Hell, I've thought of
putting one in, but I prefer the more natural method of letting the pond
establish balance. Yes, my pond takes longer to clear then my neighbors with
UV, but mine is clearing because I get a balance of going and the pond
begins "to take care of itself" so to speak. I like the sense of that. I dug
a hole, I threw some water in, and now the critters are coming to roost.

BV.

Something I forgot to mention... While the UV may give beautifully 'non pea
soup' water it does nothing to eliminate the wastes from fish/animals/etc.
That is another reason I am so happy with my veggie filter. So even if you
do go the UV route I still think there is more than one reason for a veggie
filter (removing silt and toxins). By the by, my lone little hyacinth is
already clearing things up (put it in this last Sunday).

It is cold and rainy here but the fish think it is feeding time.....


"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...
snip
For years here, some posters here have singled out UVs for this
'natural' argument, I don't get it... what could be more unnatural than
an electric water pump ??? UV is a natural occurring action on all
ponds, natural or ornamental.
snip

I'll bite on this one, but first let me say I am not against UV. I think
UV
clarifiers have a place in ponds, when desired. Hell, I've thought of
putting one in, but I prefer the more natural method of letting the pond
establish balance. Yes, my pond takes longer to clear then my neighbors
with
UV, but mine is clearing because I get a balance of going and the pond
begins "to take care of itself" so to speak. I like the sense of that. I
dug
a hole, I threw some water in, and now the critters are coming to roost.

BV.

"dkat" wrote in message
. net...
Something I forgot to mention... While the UV may give beautifully 'non
pea
soup' water it does nothing to eliminate the wastes from fish/animals/etc.
That is another reason I am so happy with my veggie filter. So even if you
do go the UV route I still think there is more than one reason for a
veggie
filter (removing silt and toxins). By the by, my lone little hyacinth is
already clearing things up (put it in this last Sunday).
snip

YES!!! Very important point. UV clarifiers are NOT filters. If anything they
just contribute to the bioload of the pond.

BV.

In article , Benign Vanilla
wrote:

"dkat" wrote in message
. net...
Something I forgot to mention... While the UV may give beautifully 'non
pea
soup' water it does nothing to eliminate the wastes from fish/animals/etc.
That is another reason I am so happy with my veggie filter. So even if you
do go the UV route I still think there is more than one reason for a
veggie
filter (removing silt and toxins). By the by, my lone little hyacinth is
already clearing things up (put it in this last Sunday).
snip

YES!!! Very important point. UV clarifiers are NOT filters. If anything they
just contribute to the bioload of the pond.

Hows that. I can think of few things that deposit more bio-load than a
pond full of suspended algae. When it is finally staved of a food
source and dies away, it settles to the bottom of your pond... it is
not, for the most part, consumed by your veggie filters. A sand filter,
however can pull it from the pond.

UV light inhibits the algae from reproducing, that is cutting the
bio-load.

jay
Thu May 27, 2004




BV.

In article , Benign Vanilla
wrote:

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...
snip
For years here, some posters here have singled out UVs for this
'natural' argument, I don't get it... what could be more unnatural than
an electric water pump ??? UV is a natural occurring action on all
ponds, natural or ornamental.
snip

I'll bite on this one, but first let me say I am not against UV. I think UV
clarifiers have a place in ponds, when desired. Hell, I've thought of
putting one in, but I prefer the more natural method of letting the pond
establish balance. Yes, my pond takes longer to clear then my neighbors with
UV, but mine is clearing because I get a balance of going and the pond
begins "to take care of itself" so to speak. I like the sense of that. I dug
a hole, I threw some water in, and now the critters are coming to roost.


I don't know why people assume a UV is exclusive to other filters...
like W.H., why is it that people make this assumption?

My ponds are rarely out of balance.

During the weeks that a pond is green, how does one examine the fish
during perilous spring period... or should we let natural selection
work ?

For me, my first responsibility is to the family pets... the ones with
names like 'boo-boo' and 'blackie'... do you name your algae? ;-)

jay
Thu May 27, 2004




BV.

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...
In article , Benign Vanilla
wrote:

"dkat" wrote in message
. net...
Something I forgot to mention... While the UV may give beautifully
'non
pea
soup' water it does nothing to eliminate the wastes from
fish/animals/etc.
That is another reason I am so happy with my veggie filter. So even if
you
do go the UV route I still think there is more than one reason for a
veggie
filter (removing silt and toxins). By the by, my lone little hyacinth
is
already clearing things up (put it in this last Sunday).
snip

YES!!! Very important point. UV clarifiers are NOT filters. If anything
they
just contribute to the bioload of the pond.

Hows that. I can think of few things that deposit more bio-load than a
pond full of suspended algae. When it is finally staved of a food
source and dies away, it settles to the bottom of your pond... it is
not, for the most part, consumed by your veggie filters. A sand filter,
however can pull it from the pond.

UV light inhibits the algae from reproducing, that is cutting the
bio-load.

My point is that UV clarifiers kill algae that pass through them. Dead algae
can become food for hungry live algae. I am not saying UV is bad, don't get
me wrong. I am not saying that. I am just saying that UV clarifiers do not
filter the water, they kill things in the water, and then let the things
move right on through. Filtration to me, IMHO, is the removal of a from b.
UV just kills a and leaves it in B. UV is a supplemental tool, not a
replacement for filtration.

BV.

In article , Benign Vanilla
wrote:

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...
In article , Benign Vanilla
wrote:

"dkat" wrote in message
. net...
Something I forgot to mention... While the UV may give beautifully
'non
pea
soup' water it does nothing to eliminate the wastes from
fish/animals/etc.
That is another reason I am so happy with my veggie filter. So even if
you
do go the UV route I still think there is more than one reason for a
veggie
filter (removing silt and toxins). By the by, my lone little hyacinth
is
already clearing things up (put it in this last Sunday).
snip

YES!!! Very important point. UV clarifiers are NOT filters. If anything
they
just contribute to the bioload of the pond.

Hows that. I can think of few things that deposit more bio-load than a
pond full of suspended algae. When it is finally staved of a food
source and dies away, it settles to the bottom of your pond... it is
not, for the most part, consumed by your veggie filters. A sand filter,
however can pull it from the pond.

UV light inhibits the algae from reproducing, that is cutting the
bio-load.

My point is that UV clarifiers kill algae that pass through them. Dead algae
can become food for hungry live algae. I am not saying UV is bad, don't get
me wrong. I am not saying that. I am just saying that UV clarifiers do not
filter the water, they kill things in the water, and then let the things
move right on through. Filtration to me, IMHO, is the removal of a from b.
UV just kills a and leaves it in B. UV is a supplemental tool, not a
replacement for filtration.

Sure, but that is exactly what I have always maintained.

Heck, I start my WH in a hothouse in Feb and they are thriving in ponds
by the 3rd week in Apr.. But I always try to incorporate a sand filter
to my ponds. I've just completed a 5K gal one and I'm using 1k lbs of
#16 silica in two filters. The 120 watts of UV that I will use on this
one... is only to lessen the burden on the sand filters (read: me
opening them and that mess)... cause there isn't a suspended algae out
there that can get past 1K of #16 sand.

jay
Thu May 27, 2004




BV.

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in
:


"Go Fig" wrote in message
...
In article , Benign Vanilla
wrote:

"dkat" wrote in message
. net...
Something I forgot to mention... While the UV may give
beautifully 'non pea soup' water it does nothing to eliminate the
wastes from fish/animals/etc. That is another reason I am so happy
with my veggie filter. So even if you do go the UV route I still
think there is more than one reason for a veggie filter (removing
silt and toxins). By the by, my lone little hyacinth is already
clearing things up (put it in this last Sunday).
snip

YES!!! Very important point. UV clarifiers are NOT filters. If
anything they just contribute to the bioload of the pond.

Hows that. I can think of few things that deposit more bio-load than
a pond full of suspended algae. When it is finally staved of a food
source and dies away, it settles to the bottom of your pond... it is
not, for the most part, consumed by your veggie filters. A sand
filter, however can pull it from the pond.

UV light inhibits the algae from reproducing, that is cutting the
bio-load.

My point is that UV clarifiers kill algae that pass through them. Dead
algae can become food for hungry live algae. I am not saying UV is bad,
don't get me wrong. I am not saying that. I am just saying that UV
clarifiers do not filter the water, they kill things in the water, and
then let the things move right on through. Filtration to me, IMHO, is
the removal of a from b. UV just kills a and leaves it in B. UV is a
supplemental tool, not a replacement for filtration.

BV.



I have to agree w/ Jay on this one...

--
B. Swanky - Boutique Giftware with Flair!
Specializes in clothing and gifts for infant, baby and toddler. We also
carry upscale handbags and accessories for women.
http://www.bswanky.com

"Jeff Spicoli" wrote in message
snip
I have to agree w/ Jay on this one...
snip

I am not sure he and I are disagreeing.

BV.

YES!!! Very important point. UV clarifiers are NOT filters. If anything they
just contribute to the bioload of the pond.

Hows that. I can think of few things that deposit more bio-load than a
pond full of suspended algae. When it is finally starved of a food
source and dies away, it settles to the bottom of your pond

Why do you think that? I think it just rots away. What do you have, redwood
or cedar decay-resistant algae? :-)

algae: the good, the bad, the ugly
GOOD: Algae removes wastes from the water. During the day it pumps oxygen into the
water. People who raise fish make "green ponds" so fry have plenty to eat. OTOH,
pea soup is an indicator that the pond is seriously low on biofiltration and water
quality is at risk.
BAD: at night, algae removes oxygen from the water and when water temps are high can
result in fish kills with the biggest fish dying first. Big air stones on a blower
will prevent this.
Dying algae left in the pond will leach wastes back into the pond and be consumed by
bacteria that will use up oxygen. If UV or anything else is going to be used for
killing UV (UV mostly roughs up the surface of algae making it stick to each other,
clumping and it sinks rather than floats)... so a filter that can trap these algae
clumps must be used and CLEANED to get rid of the organics. AT THE SAME TIME
something must be done to correct the underlying problem of excessive nutrients which
will arise when the waste eating algae is removed.
UGLY: you cant see the fish, cant see if they are having other problems.
Keeping leaves and other organics out of the pond is going to cut down on algae
problems. Increasing aeration helps the bacteria break everything down. Cleaning
filters removes organics. Small amounts of very high quality food or even skipping a
day on feeding is going to put less crap (literally) into the pond. Dont overfeed
especially in spring. Using plants in a veggie filter that are up and running early
and can stand some frosts and cold gets biofiltration going earlier.
Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
YES!!! Very important point. UV clarifiers are NOT filters. If anything
they
just contribute to the bioload of the pond.

Hows that. I can think of few things that deposit more bio-load than a
pond full of suspended algae. When it is finally starved of a food
source and dies away, it settles to the bottom of your pond

Why do you think that? I think it just rots away. What do you have,
redwood
or cedar decay-resistant algae? :-)

Our ponds are a delicate cycle of adding organics, processing organics,
lather, rinse and repeat. Once Algae enter the pond, they become part of the
cycle. Dead algae in the pond, are dead organics in the cycle and add to the
load. Just as we scoop leaves out of the pond we also want to remove other
organics.

Now I am not saying UV contributes to a pond like a forest full of maple
trees. I am simply making the point that UV clarifiers are supplemental to
filters, they are not in themselves filters. They do not remove A from B.
They kill A and leave it in B.

BV.

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...

For years here, some posters here have singled out UVs for this
'natural' argument, I don't get it... what could be more unnatural than
an electric water pump ???

IMHO, a UV light only addresses the symptom, suspended algae, rather than
the cause, a high nutrient load. An electric water pump that provides
sufficient water circulation/gas exchange, as you know, helps increase
Oxygen levels so that the natural processes can function better to reduce
the high nutrient load. To me, clear water (without using UV) is an
indicator that the biofiltration/Oxygen levels are sufficient to handle the
given bio-load. The result being better water quality, which, as we all
know, goes a long way towards preventing disease. A veggie filter, IMO,
helps take the load off the bio-filter. Some people use AZT, which, as you
know, provides the enzymes/bacteria to help speed up the biochemical
processes. IMHO, Oxygen is the key element to make all these things happen.
Low DOC (Dissolved Oxygen Content) and things start breaking down.

In article , volts500
wrote:

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...

For years here, some posters here have singled out UVs for this
'natural' argument, I don't get it... what could be more unnatural than
an electric water pump ???

IMHO, a UV light only addresses the symptom, suspended algae, rather than
the cause, a high nutrient load. An electric water pump that provides
sufficient water circulation/gas exchange, as you know, helps increase
Oxygen levels so that the natural processes can function better to reduce
the high nutrient load.

That alone will not clear green water however, look at the Gardin de
Luxemburg in Paris... but a friend told me they too are now using UV.


To me, clear water (without using UV) is an
indicator that the biofiltration/Oxygen levels are sufficient to handle the
given bio-load.

Sure, but where exactly are you getting your biofiltration in early
spring, when ponds are, by natures design, experiencing algae blooms ?
While I run UV all season long, its job for the most part, is done by
July when my WH are well into blooming.

I freak if I have 100ppm nitrate even in a very old pond.


The result being better water quality, which, as we all
know, goes a long way towards preventing disease. A veggie filter, IMO,
helps take the load off the bio-filter.

A bio-filter (cultured media) does little for nitrates, that takes
plants and water changes.

Some people use AZT, which, as you
know, provides the enzymes/bacteria to help speed up the biochemical
processes.

That is good money after bad IMHO.


IMHO, Oxygen is the key element to make all these things happen.
Low DOC (Dissolved Oxygen Content) and things start breaking down.

You would love ozone then ;-)

jay
Thu May 27, 2004

Where to you get the water hyacinths to start in your hot house (feeling
envious of someone having WH in April...)?

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...
In article , Benign Vanilla
wrote:

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...
In article , Benign Vanilla
wrote:

"dkat" wrote in message
. net...
Something I forgot to mention... While the UV may give
beautifully
'non
pea
soup' water it does nothing to eliminate the wastes from
fish/animals/etc.
That is another reason I am so happy with my veggie filter. So
even if
you
do go the UV route I still think there is more than one reason for
a
veggie
filter (removing silt and toxins). By the by, my lone little
hyacinth
is
already clearing things up (put it in this last Sunday).
snip

YES!!! Very important point. UV clarifiers are NOT filters. If
anything
they
just contribute to the bioload of the pond.

Hows that. I can think of few things that deposit more bio-load than
a
pond full of suspended algae. When it is finally staved of a food
source and dies away, it settles to the bottom of your pond... it is
not, for the most part, consumed by your veggie filters. A sand
filter,
however can pull it from the pond.

UV light inhibits the algae from reproducing, that is cutting the
bio-load.

My point is that UV clarifiers kill algae that pass through them. Dead
algae
can become food for hungry live algae. I am not saying UV is bad, don't
get
me wrong. I am not saying that. I am just saying that UV clarifiers do
not
filter the water, they kill things in the water, and then let the things
move right on through. Filtration to me, IMHO, is the removal of a from
b.
UV just kills a and leaves it in B. UV is a supplemental tool, not a
replacement for filtration.

Sure, but that is exactly what I have always maintained.

Heck, I start my WH in a hothouse in Feb and they are thriving in ponds
by the 3rd week in Apr.. But I always try to incorporate a sand filter
to my ponds. I've just completed a 5K gal one and I'm using 1k lbs of
#16 silica in two filters. The 120 watts of UV that I will use on this
one... is only to lessen the burden on the sand filters (read: me
opening them and that mess)... cause there isn't a suspended algae out
there that can get past 1K of #16 sand.

jay
Thu May 27, 2004




BV.