I don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed discoloration
problems since I've been spraying with NEEM. I've dealt with
blackspot, I've had that "tree fungus" thing that starts with a C
(never knew what it was before but it never really bothered me
before).

The thing that alarms me is a purple "bruising" on the stems of Old
Blush, as well as spotting on the leaves that I've noticed on other
plants as well (including my newly planted single Don Juan. Felicia
also has a strange yellowing of the leaves that doesn't look like
blackspot. Here are some pictures:

Felicia:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems1.jpg

Could this be overfertilization maybe?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems2.jpg

This is the purple brusing that you'll see later on Old Blush. This is
my newly planted Don Juan in front of the porch.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems3.jpg

Same here, only on Aloha, which is also suffering from blackspot as
usual.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems4.jpg

This is the most worrisome. This is a new cane from Old Blush. Most of
the new canes have this "bruising".

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems5.jpg

And, just for giggles, here is what the beetles are doing to my
Felicia panticles.

Then again, not *everything* is a problem:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/NotAProblem.jpg

The glads are poppin'

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/NotAProblem2.jpg

And so is Don Juan, this planting fortunately not exhibiting any
unusual spotting or discoloration.

Any insight would be appreciated. Could it be the NEEM that's causing
the purple? It certainly isn't keeping the beetles *or* the blackspot
away...

Dave i've never used neem oil but
those look just like the burns I get when
I apply the cornell mix w/ hort. oil and
the tempreture is above 80F. I try
to push the envelope when I should not
sometimes.

Alba Meidiland in particuler has a lot
of trouble with that concoction.

As far as cure don't know what to tell you.
The damaged leaves will hang around but
they look so bad they should be euthanized.

The cane damage looks serious. Though it will
probably survive then croak during winter.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
I don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed discoloration
problems since I've been spraying with NEEM. I've dealt with
blackspot, I've had that "tree fungus" thing that starts with a C
(never knew what it was before but it never really bothered me
before).

The thing that alarms me is a purple "bruising" on the stems of Old
Blush, as well as spotting on the leaves that I've noticed on other
plants as well (including my newly planted single Don Juan. Felicia
also has a strange yellowing of the leaves that doesn't look like
blackspot. Here are some pictures:

Felicia:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems1.jpg

Could this be overfertilization maybe?

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems2.jpg

This is the purple brusing that you'll see later on Old Blush. This is
my newly planted Don Juan in front of the porch.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems3.jpg

Same here, only on Aloha, which is also suffering from blackspot as
usual.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems4.jpg

This is the most worrisome. This is a new cane from Old Blush. Most of
the new canes have this "bruising".

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems5.jpg

And, just for giggles, here is what the beetles are doing to my
Felicia panticles.

Then again, not *everything* is a problem:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/NotAProblem.jpg

The glads are poppin'

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/NotAProblem2.jpg

And so is Don Juan, this planting fortunately not exhibiting any
unusual spotting or discoloration.

Any insight would be appreciated. Could it be the NEEM that's causing
the purple? It certainly isn't keeping the beetles *or* the blackspot
away...

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:32:25 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

I don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed discoloration
problems since I've been spraying with NEEM.

Neem oil doesn't work and it makes your roses a mess. Theo is
right--it burns. Why aren't you using an effective systemic like
Orthenex? The bs you have will defoliate and weaken your roses and it
does indeed encourage canker. I have maybe 5-10 JBs a year, and see
them staggering around on the ground after a few bites.

My roses suck right now because I have not had a dry enough period or
time to spray them since mid-May, but they surely do not look as bad
as yours. Except the ones that are totally naked.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:18:07 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:32:25 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

I don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed discoloration
problems since I've been spraying with NEEM.

Neem oil doesn't work and it makes your roses a mess. Theo is
right--it burns. Why aren't you using an effective systemic like
Orthenex? The bs you have will defoliate and weaken your roses and it
does indeed encourage canker. I have maybe 5-10 JBs a year, and see
them staggering around on the ground after a few bites.

I've never had much success with Orthonex when it comes to JB. They
seem immune to it.

I had read that Neem acted as a repellent. I can state categorically
that it doesn't work, at least while infestation is occuring.

Guess I'll go back to Orthonex. I had been spraying pretty faithfully
in March and April. May was more difficult, but I got at least a
couple of good sprayings in.

My roses suck right now because I have not had a dry enough period or
time to spray them since mid-May, but they surely do not look as bad
as yours. Except the ones that are totally naked.

Yeah, that brusing really worries me (I'm less concerned about the
yellowing leaves on Felicia - leaves can be replaced).

"Shiva" wrote:

My roses suck right now because
I have not had a dry enough period or
time to spray them since mid-May

Ain't that the truth...

In article , dave weil
wrote:


Felicia:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems1.jpg

Could this be overfertilization maybe?

Look like a lot of blind growth dying off to me. Doesn't look serious.
I bet all the yellowing stuff just falls off with a sharp spray of the
hose.


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems2.jpg

This is the purple brusing that you'll see later on Old Blush. This is
my newly planted Don Juan in front of the porch.

I'm not sure this is the same thing as what is on the Don Juan cane,
tho it looks the same as Aloha's problem.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems3.jpg

Same here, only on Aloha, which is also suffering from blackspot as
usual.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems4.jpg

This is the most worrisome. This is a new cane from Old Blush. Most of
the new canes have this "bruising".

I have leopard-spotting on the canes of one rose, a huge climber, and I
think it's going to kill it eventually. I can't tell if your rose has
the same thing. Mine suffers stem dieback too, turning yellow first
instead of the customary black. Fungicide has not helped. I thought it
was sunburn because it usually appears on one side of the cane, but it
gets on canes with no sun exposure at all.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems5.jpg

And, just for giggles, here is what the beetles are doing to my
Felicia panticles.

The *******s.

Then again, not *everything* is a problem:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/NotAProblem.jpg

The glads are poppin'

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/NotAProblem2.jpg

And so is Don Juan, this planting fortunately not exhibiting any
unusual spotting or discoloration.

Thank god for a few good blooms.

In dave weil wrote:
Felicia:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems1.jpg

Could this be overfertilization maybe?

It looks like a developing black spot mess to me - combined with either
over-watering or poor drainage. I doubt it's overfeeding.

As for the Neem oil, I agree it can burn. It's better when you spray
out of direct sunlight, eg. late afternoon. I use so-called 'Pest Oil'
which is a non-burning, advanced form of white oil that specifically
doesn't burn rose foliage.

Dave, try a milk spray. 1 part whole milk to 6 parts water. It has
enough fat content to coat and gloss the leaves (i.e. do what your oil
spray does), plus a bunch of proteins that turn nice and toxic to fungal
diseases.

Whether it works on Japanese beetles, who knows - they may not like the
taste. Give it a try - at the very least your blackspot will go.

On 26 Jun 2003 21:36:25 GMT, Daniel Hanna
wrote:

In dave weil wrote:
Felicia:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Problems1.jpg

Could this be overfertilization maybe?

It looks like a developing black spot mess to me - combined with either
over-watering or poor drainage. I doubt it's overfeeding.

It's not blackspot. First, the yellow is different. Second, the leaves
don't drop off when they get to be that color like blackspotted leaves
do. And they just look "different" than the normal blackspot - not
sure I can describe it.

As for the Neem oil, I agree it can burn. It's better when you spray
out of direct sunlight, eg. late afternoon. I use so-called 'Pest Oil'
which is a non-burning, advanced form of white oil that specifically
doesn't burn rose foliage.

Well, I'm packing up the Neem, that's for sure.

Dave, try a milk spray. 1 part whole milk to 6 parts water. It has
enough fat content to coat and gloss the leaves (i.e. do what your oil
spray does), plus a bunch of proteins that turn nice and toxic to fungal
diseases.

As well as driving the neighbors away when it sours, right?

(Just kidding)

Whether it works on Japanese beetles, who knows - they may not like the
taste. Give it a try - at the very least your blackspot will go.

I'm going to go back to Orthonex and see what happens. I don't think I
have much longer with the Japanese beetles in any case. I seem to
remember about 4 weeks, but I'm not sure...

I might give the milk thing a try though...

In article , Cass
writes:

I have leopard-spotting on the canes of one rose, a huge climber, and I
think it's going to kill it eventually. I can't tell if your rose has
the same thing. Mine suffers stem dieback too, turning yellow first
instead of the customary black. Fungicide has not helped.

That was my first thought also. But I was hoping it wasn't, whatever it is is
bad. I've had the same problem on several roses, a couple are on their last
cane. Belinda's Dream seems to be overcoming the problem. I still loose a
cane or two, but she makes enough new ones to make up for them.
Dave is there any yellow on those canes? Mine develop the purplish spots, turn
yellow, and then die.
I'll make another post about a theory I have and see if I get any response.

On 27 Jun 2003 19:38:56 GMT, (Unique Too) wrote:

In article , Cass
writes:

I have leopard-spotting on the canes of one rose, a huge climber, and I
think it's going to kill it eventually. I can't tell if your rose has
the same thing. Mine suffers stem dieback too, turning yellow first
instead of the customary black. Fungicide has not helped.

That was my first thought also. But I was hoping it wasn't, whatever it is is
bad. I've had the same problem on several roses, a couple are on their last
cane. Belinda's Dream seems to be overcoming the problem. I still loose a
cane or two, but she makes enough new ones to make up for them.
Dave is there any yellow on those canes?

So far, no.

Mine develop the purplish spots, turn yellow, and then die.

I sure hope this doesn't happen...

I'll make another post about a theory I have and see if I get any response.

Cool!

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:24:09 -0500, dave weil
wrote:


I've never had much success with Orthonex when it comes to JB. They
seem immune to it.

I re-read the label, and it sure doesn't mention being effective
againsts them, so maybe you're right. However, it doesn't mention
white fly either, and it definitely must control them as I never see
them unless I miss some spray cycles. Still--however I manage it, I
have very few JBs. The ones I see ont hre ground are twitchy, the ones
I see on the plant , I slap from the rose then stomp. Feels great!



I had read that Neem acted as a repellent. I can state categorically
that it doesn't work, at least while infestation is occuring.

Which would be when you need it. So I wonder what the point is in
applying it?



Guess I'll go back to Orthonex. I had been spraying pretty faithfully
in March and April. May was more difficult, but I got at least a
couple of good sprayings in.

It's not perfect, and the warnings on the label are scary, but I can
tell you that mine look a bunch better when I spray with it than when
I don't. I am making time this Sunday to look at the roses closely,
and I know I will see increased canker and dieback--it always
accompanies rampant blackspot and mildew. Or, actually, follows it.


Yeah, that brusing really worries me

I read the comments others made today, and I have to say that I have
this on my roses too, and have never used Banner Max. I absolutely
cannot see suspecting an anti-fungal as the cause of something like
this. Burn? Sure. But creating dieback and a deadly kind of canker
that has to be fungus related? No way. Makes no sense.

(I'm less concerned about the
yellowing leaves on Felicia - leaves can be replaced).

To a point. However, bear in mind that being defoliated to any
significant degree weakens the plant. I cannot recall where I read
about this, but I can never forget watching it happen. The cavalier,
"oh well, they'll make new leaves!" is partly true. Sure, they will
but you will notice that the plant is smaller, lacks vigor and blooms,
and winds up with more canker and dieback. Maybe all the energy it has
to put into replacing leaves that did not live out their normal,
undiseased lives just debilitates the rose. I don't know, but I can
predict with confidence that I will lose several roses due to my
inability to protect them from fungus during all this rain.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:14:42 -0400, "Ol' Thornfinger"
wrote:


"Shiva" wrote:

My roses suck right now because
I have not had a dry enough period or
time to spray them since mid-May

Ain't that the truth...

It's nice to have someone commiserate, thanks. Have you been able to
spray yet?

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:27:39 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:24:09 -0500, dave weil
wrote:


I've never had much success with Orthonex when it comes to JB. They
seem immune to it.

I re-read the label, and it sure doesn't mention being effective
againsts them, so maybe you're right. However, it doesn't mention
white fly either, and it definitely must control them as I never see
them unless I miss some spray cycles. Still--however I manage it, I
have very few JBs. The ones I see ont hre ground are twitchy, the ones
I see on the plant , I slap from the rose then stomp. Feels great!



I had read that Neem acted as a repellent. I can state categorically
that it doesn't work, at least while infestation is occuring.

Which would be when you need it. So I wonder what the point is in
applying it?

I was thinking that the deterrent factor might be highest right
*before* infestation. If the bulk of them don't bother coming in the
first place, then you're almost home free.

Maybe it keeps them from swarming but once in an area, it doesn't make
all that much difference.

Guess I'll go back to Orthonex. I had been spraying pretty faithfully
in March and April. May was more difficult, but I got at least a
couple of good sprayings in.

It's not perfect, and the warnings on the label are scary, but I can
tell you that mine look a bunch better when I spray with it than when
I don't. I am making time this Sunday to look at the roses closely,
and I know I will see increased canker and dieback--it always
accompanies rampant blackspot and mildew. Or, actually, follows it.


Yeah, that brusing really worries me

I read the comments others made today, and I have to say that I have
this on my roses too, and have never used Banner Max. I absolutely
cannot see suspecting an anti-fungal as the cause of something like
this. Burn? Sure. But creating dieback and a deadly kind of canker
that has to be fungus related? No way. Makes no sense.

(I'm less concerned about the
yellowing leaves on Felicia - leaves can be replaced).

To a point. However, bear in mind that being defoliated to any
significant degree weakens the plant. I cannot recall where I read
about this, but I can never forget watching it happen. The cavalier,
"oh well, they'll make new leaves!" is partly true.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of the dropping of leaves
triggering the growth of new canes. Cass sort of alluded to this.

Sure, they will but you will notice that the plant is smaller, lacks vigor and blooms,
and winds up with more canker and dieback. Maybe all the energy it has
to put into replacing leaves that did not live out their normal,
undiseased lives just debilitates the rose. I don't know, but I can
predict with confidence that I will lose several roses due to my
inability to protect them from fungus during all this rain.

That sucks.