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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
E. Pinninana is more tender than I would normally bother with in my garden 400ft up on the windy Chiltern plateau, especially on the evidence of a green-fingered friend on the Somerset Levels losing his to frost (he bought the plants in Scilly). But my brother put them out in his garden in a small town in Leicestershire, where the daffs come out about 2 or 3 weeks later than Severnside Somerset. They overwintered and flowered last summer to everyone's amazement, no special treatment or precautions used, though admittedly it was a rather sheltered village-centre location. I've collected some seeds from his plants, in the hope that these have unusually hardy genes.
So now what do I do with the seeds? |
#2
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
"echinosum" wrote in message ... E. Pinninana is more tender than I would normally bother with in my garden 400ft up on the windy Chiltern plateau, especially on the evidence of a green-fingered friend on the Somerset Levels losing his to frost (he bought the plants in Scilly). But my brother put them out in his garden in a small town in Leicestershire, where the daffs come out about 2 or 3 weeks later than Severnside Somerset. They overwintered and flowered last summer to everyone's amazement, no special treatment or precautions used, though admittedly it was a rather sheltered village-centre location. I've collected some seeds from his plants, in the hope that these have unusually hardy genes. So now what do I do with the seeds? -- echinosum How tall did it grow? I have seen this grown in a sheltered spot at a Nursery in Yorkshire . I was told that winter wet is the enemy and not the cold -so needs good drainage. I gave up a few years ago. Just sow the seeds now under glass. |
#3
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
echinosum wrote: So now what do I do with the seeds? Echium piniana are biennial flowers. If I were you, I'd sow some now, and again would sow more in late summer (in tray, lightly covered). They will put only leaves on this year, but next year will bloom, make seeds, and you can sow more. |
#5
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:19:56 +0000, Sacha
wrote: On 4/2/06 13:03, in article , "Dave Poole" wrote: On 4 Feb 2006 03:42:43 -0800, "La Puce" wrote: So now what do I do with the seeds? Echium piniana are biennial flowers. If I were you, I'd sow some now, and again would sow more in late summer (in tray, lightly covered). They will put only leaves on this year, but next year will bloom, make seeds, and you can sow more. In the UK Echium pininana is monocarpic (dies after flowering) and not biennial. It may take 2 or even 3 summers to grow to flowering size and only very rarely makes enough growth 2 seasons to satisfy the criteria of being biennial. If sown now and provided the plants are not killed by cold winter wet, flowers can be expected during May/June 2008 at the earliest. I found mine seeded themselves around in Jersey but we have little luck with them here, even in our comparatively mild climate. One flowered last year, so I'm waiting to see if it produced any viable seedlings nearby. There hasn't been the problem of wetness so much this year but of course, it has been very cold. I am always terribly envious of the people of Tresco when we go there and see the darn things growing wild! In fact, thinking about it, I'm tempted to put some into 'interesting' pots and see what happens if we just grow them that way. snip They grow wild in west Cornwall too. A few years ago I saw a 'copse' of them, like triffids, on some uncultivated semi-moorland near St. Ives. It looked as if someone had dumped some garden rubbish there, including I suspect a few dead flower stems of EP, and it had scattered its seeds around which then germinated freely! -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
#6
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
Dave Poole wrote: In the UK Echium pininana is monocarpic (dies after flowering) and not biennial. It may take 2 or even 3 summers to grow to flowering size and only very rarely makes enough growth 2 seasons to satisfy the criteria of being biennial. If sown now and provided the plants are not killed by cold winter wet, flowers can be expected during May/June 2008 at the earliest. (snip) Off course and thank you. |
#7
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
On 4/2/06 20:25, in article ,
"Chris Hogg" wrote: On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:19:56 +0000, Sacha wrote: snip I found mine seeded themselves around in Jersey but we have little luck with them here, even in our comparatively mild climate. One flowered last year, so I'm waiting to see if it produced any viable seedlings nearby. There hasn't been the problem of wetness so much this year but of course, it has been very cold. I am always terribly envious of the people of Tresco when we go there and see the darn things growing wild! In fact, thinking about it, I'm tempted to put some into 'interesting' pots and see what happens if we just grow them that way. snip They grow wild in west Cornwall too. A few years ago I saw a 'copse' of them, like triffids, on some uncultivated semi-moorland near St. Ives. It looked as if someone had dumped some garden rubbish there, including I suspect a few dead flower stems of EP, and it had scattered its seeds around which then germinated freely! I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. My Jersey ones came from three that grew to at least 12 feet and were a sort of high rise restaurant for every bee in Jersey, it seemed to me. They were teeming with them, including my own bees. They were then were hit by an unusually hard winter for Jersey, or so I thought. I was convinced they were nuked. Next spring there were literally hundreds of seedlings around the area in which they were planted - hundreds. I was begging people to come and take them away. I realise now how much I took for granted when I was gardening there! -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon ) |
#8
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
The message
from Dave Poole contains these words: Sacha wrote: I found mine seeded themselves around in Jersey but we have little luck with them here, even in our comparatively mild climate. They seed themselves about freely here as do the more deeply coloured E. wildpretii. E.pininana seed like weeds in a few sheltered spots here on Arran. In Brodick castle, it seeds freely into sunny starved gravel paths, but also (around the compost heaps) into wet rich deeply shaded loam under trees. I transplanted some to my garden where they grew like stink in year one and died like doornails in their first winter, probably my bad choice of location. Next time I see a big batch of seedlings I'll try them in other places. Although the flowers aren't bright I like the exotic shape they make, giant stems rearing up like giraffe necks. OTOH, some other echium (seed brought ftom Madeira in nameless envelope) has already survived two winters planted out in my garden (drier and sunnier spot), and look as if they might flower this year. It's definitely not pininana though. Janet. (Isle of Arran) |
#9
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
On 5/2/06 8:45, in article , "Dave
Poole" wrote: Sacha wrote: I found mine seeded themselves around in Jersey but we have little luck with them here, even in our comparatively mild climate. Yes, I think you may be a tad too far inland there, although you might find a seedling survive in a sheltered dry spot close to the house wall. Even I sometimes forget how close we are to Dartmoor! And this morning, for instance, the lawns were very white, and even though the sun is shining there is no sign of ice melting on the ponds yet. The one we managed to get to flower last year was in the tea room garden so very sheltered by hedge, tea room conservatory and other plants covering it. I hope we might be lucky. Echiums are almost always better allowed to find their own comfort zones when they are being grown in borderline situations. If you put one very close to the south wall, protect it, but otherwise let it do its stuff, you might find that any progeny will find their own little microclimates. Of course, sod's law will ensure that the only suitable spot will be smack-bang in front of the sitting room window, denying you all a view of the garden :-| Well, we'll just have to dodge it, then; ;-) Ray has finally hacked out the huge tree peony in front of the dining room so that we can see out of the window, so perhaps we could try an Echium to one side of that! In fact a lot of slashing and burning has gone on since you were last here. One flowered last year, so I'm waiting to see if it produced any viable seedlings nearby. There hasn't been the problem of wetness so much this year but of course, it has been very cold. I am always terribly envious of the people of Tresco when we go there and see the darn things growing wild! They seed themselves about freely here as do the more deeply coloured E. wildpretii. I always find E. pininana something of a disappointment when it finally flowers. The huge towers of foliage and flower buds look so promising, but the colour impact of those tiny pale mauve flowers when they open never quite lives up to expectation for me. E. wildpretii with its dark, purplish mauve flowers is rather better in this respect, but it is less hardy for those living inland and doesn't grow so tall. There will almost certainly be hybrids of the two species over the next few years, which might fit the bill. If its any consolation, the humidity in this garden doesn't allow either species to grow. It's great for bananas and other lush, leafy things, but not for plants that prefer similar dry, airy locations. We got some E. wildpretii from Mike Nelhams in Tresco so it will be worth giving it a go and we also took seed from an E. fastuosum growing just outside one of the cottage gardens on a sandy path in direct blast from the sea. I think this is my favourite kind of Echium and this particular one was of the most enchanting deep blue. I'd love to get that going in a pot, too, so will have to have a chat with Ray about space! In fact, thinking about it, I'm tempted to put some into 'interesting' pots and see what happens if we just grow them that way. In very big tree pots yes - filled with sandy loam. A 50/50 mix of your local red soil and sharp sand will do the trick - maybe with a light sprinkling of osmocote pellets to give the plants a boost early on. You won't get 5m. high spikes, but they'll put on a decent show to 2.8m. high or maybe more. They would look spectacular in the big double and you'll get them to flower in Feb/early March as opposed to April/early May. Thanks and good idea. Hi ho Hi ho....... ;-) BTW, did you get an email from me about Guy? I'm not sure if I have your address correctly. Would you mind emailing me to let me know. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon ) |
#10
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
On 5/2/06 10:11, in article , "Janet
Baraclough" wrote: The message from Dave Poole contains these words: Sacha wrote: I found mine seeded themselves around in Jersey but we have little luck with them here, even in our comparatively mild climate. They seed themselves about freely here as do the more deeply coloured E. wildpretii. E.pininana seed like weeds in a few sheltered spots here on Arran. In Brodick castle, it seeds freely into sunny starved gravel paths, but also (around the compost heaps) into wet rich deeply shaded loam under trees. I transplanted some to my garden where they grew like stink in year one and died like doornails in their first winter, probably my bad choice of location. Next time I see a big batch of seedlings I'll try them in other places. Although the flowers aren't bright I like the exotic shape they make, giant stems rearing up like giraffe necks. OTOH, some other echium (seed brought ftom Madeira in nameless envelope) has already survived two winters planted out in my garden (drier and sunnier spot), and look as if they might flower this year. It's definitely not pininana though. Try a Google image search on E. wildpretii that David mentions and also E. fastuosum. The latter is a lovely plant, holding its flowers rather like a candelabra. Here's one called Pride of Madeira! http://tinyurl.com/acug3 And there's a good pic of E. wildpretii on this site: http://www.justplants.co.uk/Main%20Page7.htm -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon ) |
#11
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
The message
from Sacha contains these words: On 5/2/06 10:11, in article , "Janet Baraclough" wrote: The message from Dave Poole contains these words: OTOH, some other echium (seed brought ftom Madeira in nameless envelope) has already survived two winters planted out in my garden (drier and sunnier spot), and look as if they might flower this year. It's definitely not pininana though. Try a Google image search on E. wildpretii that David mentions and also E. fastuosum. The latter is a lovely plant, holding its flowers rather like a candelabra. Here's one called Pride of Madeira! http://tinyurl.com/acug3 And there's a good pic of E. wildpretii on this site: http://www.justplants.co.uk/Main%20Page7.htm I'm hoping it's Po M, the foliage looks similar, but won't be able to identify by flower, er, until they flower :-) Thanks for that justplants link btw..I've bookmarked it for further exploration later. Janet |
#12
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
On 5/2/06 13:12, in article , "Janet
Baraclough" wrote: The message from Sacha contains these words: On 5/2/06 10:11, in article , "Janet Baraclough" wrote: The message from Dave Poole contains these words: OTOH, some other echium (seed brought ftom Madeira in nameless envelope) has already survived two winters planted out in my garden (drier and sunnier spot), and look as if they might flower this year. It's definitely not pininana though. Try a Google image search on E. wildpretii that David mentions and also E. fastuosum. The latter is a lovely plant, holding its flowers rather like a candelabra. Here's one called Pride of Madeira! http://tinyurl.com/acug3 And there's a good pic of E. wildpretii on this site: http://www.justplants.co.uk/Main%20Page7.htm I'm hoping it's Po M, the foliage looks similar, but won't be able to identify by flower, er, until they flower :-) Thanks for that justplants link btw..I've bookmarked it for further exploration later. Me, too. I like the look of that site. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon ) |
#13
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
"Dave Poole" wrote in message ... Sacha wrote: .. In fact, thinking about it, I'm tempted to put some into 'interesting' pots and see what happens if we just grow them that way. In very big tree pots yes - filled with sandy loam. A 50/50 mix of your local red soil and sharp sand will do the trick - maybe with a light sprinkling of osmocote pellets to give the plants a boost early on. You won't get 5m. high spikes, but they'll put on a decent show to 2.8m. high or maybe more. They would look spectacular in the big double and you'll get them to flower in Feb/early March as opposed to April/early May. Dave Poole Torquay, Coastal South Devon UK Winter min -2°C. Summer max 34°C. Growing season: March - November Your info about pots and Sachas links to those stunning pictures makes me want to have another go at them. I managed to get one to its second year but then it gave up and so did I. A tree pot of what size? I assume the bigger the better but what's the minimum size you recommend? |
#14
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
"Dave Poole" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: Your info about pots and Sachas links to those stunning pictures makes me want to have another go at them. I managed to get one to its second year but then it gave up and so did I. With these tender Echiums, the danger isn't so much the severity of the frost (within reason), but the length of time that it persists. Minus 4C by night with nothing rising above 0C by day for several days does far more damage than a minus 6 or 7C 'hit' followed by a rapid rise to 6 - 10C by day. If it looks as though you are in for a continuously frosty spell, it is better to haul the plants under cover. A tree pot of what size? I assume the bigger the better but what's the minimum size you recommend? 60cms deep and the same in diameter or more is about right and yes, the bigger the better. I've seen very good plants grown in cut-down, plastic dustbins and you might find those a more economical proposition. The lowest quarter should be filled with drainage material and plenty of drainage holes need to be drilled - the more the merrier. The chappy who grows them in half dustbins trundles them about on a sack truck - shifting them into his car port in very cold weather and out again when it is mild. There's dedication for you! In winter, the plants are only watered when the leaves are wilting and the plants aren't fed except when first potted. Then they get a small amount of slow release pellets (Osmocote) and that's it. If you are opting for pot growing and can provide some shelter in winter, I would certainly opt for Echium wildpretii. It is not as triffid-like as pininana and is far easier to manage. You might also try Echium webbii as well. It is shrubby in the same way as E. candicans (fastuosum), but is somewhat more richly coloured and a more compact grower. HTH. Dave Poole Torquay, Coastal South Devon UK Winter min -2°C. Summer max 34°C. Growing season: March - November Thanks Dave. Pulling things around on carts or sliding then on carpets is a necessity in this part of Yorkshire, particularly if you aspire to doing a junior and amateurish version of the Henry Cooke thing. Curse the day my sister bought me that book by Myles Challis:-) |
#15
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Propagating Echium Pinninana from seed
"Janet Baraclough" wrote The message from Sacha contains these words: snip Here's one called Pride of Madeira! http://tinyurl.com/acug3 And there's a good pic of E. wildpretii on this site: http://www.justplants.co.uk/Main%20Page7.htm I'm hoping it's Po M, the foliage looks similar, but won't be able to identify by flower, er, until they flower :-) Thanks for that justplants link btw..I've bookmarked it for further exploration later. Oh my word, that's a gorgeous plant! I've been thinking I must make space for some of the rather humbler native Echium vulgare, 'Viper's Bugloss', which grows wild around here but is still lovely enough imo to deserve garden space. E. russicum that I planted last year appears to have survived the winter, so I'm hoping to see that flower this summer, but I never imagined those wonderful tall varieties could be grown in E Anglia. It seems Geoff Stebbings is gardening not all that far from Norfolk though. What an inspiration. -- Sue |
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