One point to remember when making your selection of the plants suggested is
their pruning requirements. It can be an absolute beggar to prune when one
plant is tangled with another one/three. You can of course make certain each
plant is not allowed to invade the others territory but that's just too easy
:-)

I'll leave plenty of space between them - by the time they are fighting
each other, I'll be a pro at this gardening thing !!
Seriously though, I'm not sure - with them flowering at different times,
it might be interesting to let them tangle up. But then yes, pruning
would be a bit of a lottery !

"NC" wrote in message
...
Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
NC wrote:

Ok - fair point.
Been looking at crocus.co.uk and I like the look of the Clematis Nelly
Moser. Maybe one of these, and an Akebia ?


Fine. And, if they get too tangled, both will survive being cut back
hard - at the loss of a year's flowers (two for the Akebia). Nelly
Moser might flower late in the year after being pruned back hard,
but I can't say for sure.

OK - I think I'll go for that. I like the idea that the Akebia should
flower March-May and then the Nelly Moser from May-June & Sept. Should
have a fairly decent range of flowers through the summer

Basket at Crocus.co.uk is filled up (added a Japanese Maple for the corner
of the garden, and a few bits for the herb bed.).

Thanks for all the advise - and all so quickly too.
Gardending is addictive, and I've only just bought my first spade and fork
!
I'll put the order in when I get paid next week, so that gives plenty of
time for someone else to come in and tell me something else..

As Sacha said Acers can be difficult.
If you are looking at the Crocus site I suggest having a look at Acer
Osakazuki. The picture shows the Autumn colour. In spring it has a vibrant
green leaf with interesting red keys. It is a little more tolerant of wind
than the Dark leaved varieties. As a bonus it has an interesting bark.
Although it is supposedly slow growing it's faster than most . If the pay
cheque is big enough go for the larger offering, the small one is not much
better than a twig.

As Sacha said Acers can be difficult.
If you are looking at the Crocus site I suggest having a look at Acer
Osakazuki. The picture shows the Autumn colour. In spring it has a vibrant
green leaf with interesting red keys. It is a little more tolerant of wind
than the Dark leaved varieties. As a bonus it has an interesting bark.
Although it is supposedly slow growing it's faster than most . If the pay
cheque is big enough go for the larger offering, the small one is not much
better than a twig.


Thats the one I've gone for (or will).. and yes, I've also gone for thew
arger offering fearing exactly what you have confirmed about it being a
twig ! Looks beautiful, and several colleagues at work have recommended
it too.

In article , Rupert wrote:

What your Akebia is in full song NOW. ? I hate you :-)
Mine on a south facing wall in W Yorks puts on a display of sorts in May.
I always find that the lovely flowers are masked by the foliage

I am surprised. Mine is usually February to April, depending on
the weather - this year, it will be later than last. I don't find
the flowers masked so much as slightly sparse.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article , Rupert wrote:

What your Akebia is in full song NOW. ? I hate you :-)
Mine on a south facing wall in W Yorks puts on a display of sorts in May.
I always find that the lovely flowers are masked by the foliage

I am surprised. Mine is usually February to April, depending on
the weather - this year, it will be later than last. I don't find
the flowers masked so much as slightly sparse.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

It is nearly always deciduous in my garden and by the time it actually
flowers the leaf growth is so great that the flowers are not that
noticeable.
Perhaps by the time I do notice them its already done it's stuff a month or
two earlier :-)
Incidentally found this remark somewhe-
For large infestations, use of a labelled systemic herbicide, such as
glyphosate (e.g., Roundup) is probably the most effective method to control
akebia.
I have always treated it as something precious.

In article , Rupert wrote:


It is nearly always deciduous in my garden and by the time it actually
flowers the leaf growth is so great that the flowers are not that
noticeable.

Similarly in mine, but the leaves aren't all that dense, either.

Perhaps by the time I do notice them its already done it's stuff a month or
two earlier :-)

Perhaps.

Incidentally found this remark somewhe-
For large infestations, use of a labelled systemic herbicide, such as
glyphosate (e.g., Roundup) is probably the most effective method to control
akebia.
I have always treated it as something precious.

Like many plants, it grows in the UK, but needs warmer weather to
really thrive - including becoming a pest. We are right at the
limit of the temperate zone (despite being often misclassified as
warm temperate, based on winters alone).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:32:46 +0000 (UTC)
NC wrote:

As Sacha said Acers can be difficult.
If you are looking at the Crocus site I suggest having a look at Acer
Osakazuki. The picture shows the Autumn colour. In spring it has a vibrant
green leaf with interesting red keys. It is a little more tolerant of wind
than the Dark leaved varieties. As a bonus it has an interesting bark.
Although it is supposedly slow growing it's faster than most . If the pay
cheque is big enough go for the larger offering, the small one is not much
better than a twig.


Thats the one I've gone for (or will).. and yes, I've also gone for thew
arger offering fearing exactly what you have confirmed about it being a
twig ! Looks beautiful, and several colleagues at work have recommended
it too.

This is a beautiful maple, and old: it has been listed in catalogues since
the mid-1800s, was on the list of 1882 and received the RHS' Order
of Garden Merit in 1993. Properly written the leading 'O' has a bar
over it, the closest I can come on this keyboard is 'Õ'. The name,
according to Vertrees, means "Saki-like cup."

As Rupert suggests this is not a terribly exigent maple, in fact it's
pretty tough by all accounts, and may put on a foot of new growth
while young. However, it is unlikely to develop its best color grown
in full shade. It will want at least a couple of hours of light in the
morning. It can be grown in full sun, with minimal leaf burn.

I am interested in the comment about the bark, as I find no
reference to any particular characteristic, even in "Maples
of the World," and can't remember noticing anything. However this
is not a plant I currently grow, so I've only observed it in other collections.

One thing to be concerned about is eventual size. Imagine that
in 30 years -- if the plant is happy -- you risk having a tree 24 ft
high and even wider. Acer palmatum doesn't prune particularly well,
you would be better off starting with a cultivar that won't outgrow
the space. (Haven't read most of the thread, so maybe you know
exactly what you're doing here...)

Always another concern with maples of all types is the source.
Most retailers get their maples from large nurseries in the
Netherlands or Spain. In this latter case particularly I have seen
some very bad cultivar examples being sold, that are not very
true to type. Sango Kaku seems particularly prone to variation,
but also the other popular varieties Orange Dream, Seiryu,
Trompenburg, and anything dissected. The solution is to work
with nurserymen (and women!) who specialize in maples. I
can give a very high recommendation to Mallet Court Nursery in
Taunton. They will do mail order, also. Another very good source
is Firma C. Esveld, who also have one of the very best web sites
for maples in general.

Finally, when you plant your tree make sure the soil is free draining
and not too rich. The manure may overload the poor things systems,
especially before it's established. I don't know what type of soil
you've got, but if it's not very acid working some peat into the plantation
might be a good idea, and maybe some sand if it needs lightening.
A little bone meal should be the only fertilizer you use, at least
during the first few years.

HTH,

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

On 21/2/06 8:30, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:

In article , Rupert wrote:

What your Akebia is in full song NOW. ? I hate you :-)
Mine on a south facing wall in W Yorks puts on a display of sorts in May.
I always find that the lovely flowers are masked by the foliage

I am surprised. Mine is usually February to April, depending on
the weather - this year, it will be later than last. I don't find
the flowers masked so much as slightly sparse.

In reply to both you and Rupert - yes, ours is flowering now. It's on a
pillar which is on the side of a path going down the nursery. It's not
wholly sheltered but it's fairly so and it is sunny. Like Nick, I find it
rather sparse in that it flowers at the top and I'd be interested to see it
made to grow low down, along a hand rail, for example or the top of a low
fence as I've seen Clematis cirrhosa grown. The latter is notorious for
flowering high up on its stems and it's a shame that the flowers so often
get overlooked, as a result.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:32:46 +0000 (UTC)
NC wrote:

As Sacha said Acers can be difficult.
snip
..

This is a beautiful maple, and old: it has been listed in catalogues since
the mid-1800s, was on the list of 1882 and received the RHS' Order
of Garden Merit in 1993. Properly written the leading 'O' has a bar
over it, the closest I can come on this keyboard is 'Õ'. The name,
according to Vertrees, means "Saki-like cup."

As Rupert suggests this is not a terribly exigent maple, in fact it's
pretty tough by all accounts, and may put on a foot of new growth
while young. However, it is unlikely to develop its best color grown
in full shade. It will want at least a couple of hours of light in the
morning. It can be grown in full sun, with minimal leaf burn.

I am interested in the comment about the bark, as I find no
reference to any particular characteristic, even in "Maples
of the World," and can't remember noticing anything. However this
is not a plant I currently grow, so I've only observed it in other
collections.

One thing to be concerned about is eventual size. Imagine that
in 30 years -- if the plant is happy -- you risk having a tree 24 ft
high and even wider. Acer palmatum doesn't prune particularly well,
you would be better off starting with a cultivar that won't outgrow
the space. (Haven't read most of the thread, so maybe you know
exactly what you're doing here...)

Always another concern with maples of all types is the source.
Most retailers get their maples from large nurseries in the
Netherlands or Spain. In this latter case particularly I have seen
some very bad cultivar examples being sold, that are not very
true to type. Sango Kaku seems particularly prone to variation,
but also the other popular varieties Orange Dream, Seiryu,
Trompenburg, and anything dissected. The solution is to work
with nurserymen (and women!) who specialize in maples. I
can give a very high recommendation to Mallet Court Nursery in
Taunton. They will do mail order, also. Another very good source
is Firma C. Esveld, who also have one of the very best web sites
for maples in general.

Finally, when you plant your tree make sure the soil is free draining
and not too rich. The manure may overload the poor things systems,
especially before it's established. I don't know what type of soil
you've got, but if it's not very acid working some peat into the
plantation
might be a good idea, and maybe some sand if it needs lightening.
A little bone meal should be the only fertilizer you use, at least
during the first few years.

HTH,

Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

At the moment the trunk of the tree resembles the colour of a beech with odd
green sections.
Snake bark maple springs to mind but it is a lot less pronounced than that.
Your comments about cultivar examples that are not true to type may be
relevant in this case.
Growth of about 1 foot per year is exactly what this tree has done since
planted 10 years ago. Lower branches have been removed right back to the two
main trunks which makes it a more manageable size and displays the nice
features of the wood. Pruning other wood results in a small amount of die
back that is neatened up about now.

On 21/2/06 0:03, in article
, "NC" wrote:

Whoa! Please tell me that the Japanese Maple is not going to go in a spot
that is windy? They're incredibly fussy about that and about being wet at
the root, too. Cold winds, in particular, are very bad news for them.
These are not easy plants, beautiful though they are indeed.

Nope - the end of the garden is well shaded from wind so it should be OK.
The house is a new build, so the soil isn't great - there is a very high
clay content from what I can gather. About a fortnight ago I forked in a
good amount of well rotted manure (from a local horse-keeper, cardboard
based and not straw) to try and improve the soil. Should I add anything
else before I plant the maple ?? (similarly for the creepers.. but I
think I asked that in the reply I just wrote to another of your posts!)

Anything organic and the more manure you can get from stables etc., the
better. And well-rotted is best, yes. Whatever you plant give it plenty
of root room widthwise but don't plant it any deeper than it was in its pot.
You can judge by the mark on the stem left by the potting compost. Make
sure the roots are firmed in well when you backfill but be very wary of
stomping all over the newly infilled soil as some people are a bit heavy
footed! Firm but light is the way!
Maples like well-drained, moist but not wet, soil so you'll need to make
sure yours has a suitably prepared spot, out of the wind. Don't let it dry
out but OTOH, don't saturate it during winter especially, either. Most
Maples we see customers having trouble with are either in the ground and
desiccated by the wind or in a pot and both windblown AND drowning because
the anxious owner is worrying that it's too dry! But they're absolutely
beautiful things and you're obviously off to a roaring start in your new
obsession!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:23:30 -0000
"Rupert" wrote:


"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:32:46 +0000 (UTC)
NC wrote:

As Sacha said Acers can be difficult.
snip
.
[]
As Rupert suggests this is not a terribly exigent maple, in fact it's
pretty tough by all accounts, and may put on a foot of new growth
while young. However, it is unlikely to develop its best color grown
in full shade. It will want at least a couple of hours of light in the
morning. It can be grown in full sun, with minimal leaf burn.

I am interested in the comment about the bark, as I find no
reference to any particular characteristic, even in "Maples
of the World," and can't remember noticing anything. However this
is not a plant I currently grow, so I've only observed it in other
collections.

[]
Always another concern with maples of all types is the source.
Most retailers get their maples from large nurseries in the
Netherlands or Spain. In this latter case particularly I have seen
some very bad cultivar examples being sold, that are not very
true to type. Sango Kaku seems particularly prone to variation,
but also the other popular varieties Orange Dream, Seiryu,
Trompenburg, and anything dissected. The solution is to work
with nurserymen (and women!) who specialize in maples. I
can give a very high recommendation to Mallet Court Nursery in
Taunton. They will do mail order, also. Another very good source
is Firma C. Esveld, who also have one of the very best web sites
for maples in general.

[]
At the moment the trunk of the tree resembles the colour of a beech with odd
green sections.

I see. That sounds similar bark to 'Okagami', which I grow. Very pretty in
a subtle way. There is a wide variation of bark types and colors in the
palmatum cultivars, which to my taste adds much winter interest.

Snake bark maple springs to mind but it is a lot less pronounced than that.

You mean it is actually striped? With apologies, "snake bark maple" is a bit
vague for me I'm afraid, as it includes the entire section Macrantha,
IIRC more than 20 species, with corresponding bark variation.
Pedantic aside, true.

Your comments about cultivar examples that are not true to type may be
relevant in this case.

It occurred to me when I noticed they had some of the common names
wrong. "Maple people" would be unlikely to let such a mistake go by!

Growth of about 1 foot per year is exactly what this tree has done since
planted 10 years ago. Lower branches have been removed right back to the two
main trunks which makes it a more manageable size and displays the nice
features of the wood. Pruning other wood results in a small amount of die
back that is neatened up about now.


Sounds like a lovely specimen, and cared for. My comment about
pruning was aimed at anyone trying to keep the overall size down,
not the sort of tidying you're talking about.

BTW, I received my Kalopanax septemlobus a few days ago, it is
a truly bizarre looking thing, a 1.5 m stick with a single large, flat
brown bud on the top, entirely covered with very nasty looking thorns.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:23:30 -0000
"Rupert" wrote:


"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:32:46 +0000 (UTC)
NC wrote:

big snip

At the moment the trunk of the tree resembles the colour of a beech with
odd
green sections.

I see. That sounds similar bark to 'Okagami', which I grow. Very pretty
in
a subtle way. There is a wide variation of bark types and colors in the
palmatum cultivars, which to my taste adds much winter interest.

Snake bark maple springs to mind but it is a lot less pronounced than
that.

You mean it is actually striped?
Not at this moment but in summer it has a definate vertical markings to it
.. It's more of a surface effect than a grooving.

snip

BTW, I received my Kalopanax septemlobus a few days ago, it is
a truly bizarre looking thing, a 1.5 m stick with a single large, flat
brown bud on the top, entirely covered with very nasty looking thorns.
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

It took me a while to find a decent picture of the leaves. Well worthwhile.
Your initial description reminded me of the horsechestnuts that spring up
around here as a result of squirrels burying the nuts from a tree several
hundred yards away.
A straight stick with a bud that looks quite exotic--followed by a couple of
lovely leaves.
The nearest I have got to your Kalo is a Tetrapanax which has managed to
survive since I got it recently-even with a few hard frosts.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In terms of flowering climbers, you have clematis (most), honeysuckle
(the northern European ones), hydrangea and relatives, Akebia quinata,
WINTER jasmine, and precious little else. Don't bother with most of
the jasmines or passion flowers - they won't like it.

You had suggested not long ago honeysuckles L. periclymenum and L.
japonica and the Clematis armandii (I feel like giving you a hand -
it's amazing how often you folks have to repeat yourself !).

Anything organic and the more manure you can get from stables etc., the
better. And well-rotted is best, yes. Whatever you plant give it plenty
of root room widthwise but don't plant it any deeper than it was in its pot.
You can judge by the mark on the stem left by the potting compost. Make
sure the roots are firmed in well when you backfill but be very wary of
stomping all over the newly infilled soil as some people are a bit heavy
footed! Firm but light is the way!
Maples like well-drained, moist but not wet, soil so you'll need to make
sure yours has a suitably prepared spot, out of the wind. Don't let it dry
out but OTOH, don't saturate it during winter especially, either. Most
Maples we see customers having trouble with are either in the ground and
desiccated by the wind or in a pot and both windblown AND drowning because
the anxious owner is worrying that it's too dry! But they're absolutely
beautiful things and you're obviously off to a roaring start in your new
obsession!

Great advise - thanks again !

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:49:41 -0000
"Rupert" wrote:


"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
[snip]

BTW, I received my Kalopanax septemlobus a few days ago, it is
a truly bizarre looking thing, a 1.5 m stick with a single large, flat
brown bud on the top, entirely covered with very nasty looking thorns.
[]
It took me a while to find a decent picture of the leaves. Well worthwhile.
Your initial description reminded me of the horsechestnuts that spring up
around here as a result of squirrels burying the nuts from a tree several
hundred yards away.
A straight stick with a bud that looks quite exotic--followed by a couple of
lovely leaves.
The nearest I have got to your Kalo is a Tetrapanax which has managed to
survive since I got it recently-even with a few hard frosts.



Braver man than I. That's a cracking plant, Tetrapanax, but without
a greenhouse I wouldn't try it here in Normandy.

The Kalopanax is meant to be quite rustic, I was told the scion
was taken from a tree in Berlin, and the nursery is in the Haute
Loire, where they see -20º. So I'm unlikely to freeze it. If
things ever get back to normal I might drown it, I suppose.

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies