In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes:
|
| You are absolutely correct, do you know that mushrooms can be taken to
| the pharmacy for identification? Out of a whole basket, only one type
| of mine was edible! The others could be eaten, with the exception of
| one sounding like amoneta? but they would taste awful, so the
| pharmacist said. I will stick to buying them in the shop I think.
|
| Amanita. That genus contains several deadly fungi, including the death
| cap, fool's mushroom and destroying angel. Wikipedia claims that Amanita
| accounts for 95% of deaths by mushroom poisoning.

The reason that it is so dangerous is that A. phalloides looks exactly
like a field mushroom (Agaricus campestris) in the button stage.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

You are absolutely correct, do you know that mushrooms can be taken
to the pharmacy for identification? Out of a whole basket, only one
type of mine was edible! The others could be eaten, with the
exception of one sounding like amoneta? but they would taste awful,
so the pharmacist said. I will stick to buying them in the shop I
think.

Amanita. That genus contains several deadly fungi, including the death
cap, fool's mushroom and destroying angel. Wikipedia claims that
Amanita accounts for 95% of deaths by mushroom poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita

The problem with A. phalloides is that there are two toxins. The first acts
within a few hours, and will lead to vomiting. But by then the second toxin
will have been absorbed, and with that the effects don't show for around 24
hours. By that time it has already destroyed many liver cells. As if that
wasn't bad enough, it is excreted in the bile, and is reabsorbed further
down the gut. From there it goes back to the liver, and destroys more
cells. And so on. In the end, only a liver transplant could ensure
survival.

Many years ago the only way to stop this process was to temporarily damage
the liver cells in another way (believe it or not by using carbon
tetrachloride - the original "Thawpit" dry cleaning fluid). In this way the
amanita toxin could not do its deadly work on the liver cells, and was
eventually excreted. Unfortunately, if the dose of carbon tetrachloride was
too high, that also killed the liver cells. So there weren't too many
survivors either way round. When an antitoxin becomes available it should
be the treatment method of choice.

I read somewhere quite recently that the spores are also toxic. So even if
you didn't eat the Death Cap itself, if its spores had fallen on other
edible mushrooms in your basket, some degree of poisoning could result
(though I doubt it would be serious, let alone fatal).

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

On Dec 10, 7:12 pm, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message
,
judith.lea writes





On Dec 10, 3:27 pm, Sacha wrote:
On 10/12/07 14:35, in article
,

"judith.lea" wrote:
On Dec 3, 11:20 pm, Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article ,

"Mike...." wrote:
Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then
there are
named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly
pear-shaped fruit
- these are real beauties when mature trees but they're not the
'mysterious
fruit' I'm trying to ID.
--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I have some quince in my back garden and I don't have the faintest if
they are edible or not, my husband laughed when I bought quince at the
local greengrocers to make quince jelly for Christmas, he swears we
have the same thing in the garden, but I am not chancing it - with my
slight knowledge - I am bound to get them confused.

Take them to your local greengrocer, they'll tell you. The French and
Italians are good at using whatever comes to hand and knowing how to use it
safely, too.
--
Sacha- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are absolutely correct, do you know that mushrooms can be taken to
the pharmacy for identification? Out of a whole basket, only one type
of mine was edible! The others could be eaten, with the exception of
one sounding like amoneta? but they would taste awful, so the
pharmacist said. I will stick to buying them in the shop I think.

Amanita. That genus contains several deadly fungi, including the death
cap, fool's mushroom and destroying angel. Wikipedia claims that Amanita
accounts for 95% of deaths by mushroom poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bloomin' 'eck, will I ever eat a mushroom again?

On Dec 10, 8:38 pm, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

You are absolutely correct, do you know that mushrooms can be taken
to the pharmacy for identification? Out of a whole basket, only one
type of mine was edible! The others could be eaten, with the
exception of one sounding like amoneta? but they would taste awful,
so the pharmacist said. I will stick to buying them in the shop I
think.

Amanita. That genus contains several deadly fungi, including the death
cap, fool's mushroom and destroying angel. Wikipedia claims that
Amanita accounts for 95% of deaths by mushroom poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita

The problem with A. phalloides is that there are two toxins. The first acts
within a few hours, and will lead to vomiting. But by then the second toxin
will have been absorbed, and with that the effects don't show for around 24
hours. By that time it has already destroyed many liver cells. As if that
wasn't bad enough, it is excreted in the bile, and is reabsorbed further
down the gut. From there it goes back to the liver, and destroys more
cells. And so on. In the end, only a liver transplant could ensure
survival.

Many years ago the only way to stop this process was to temporarily damage
the liver cells in another way (believe it or not by using carbon
tetrachloride - the original "Thawpit" dry cleaning fluid). In this way the
amanita toxin could not do its deadly work on the liver cells, and was
eventually excreted. Unfortunately, if the dose of carbon tetrachloride was
too high, that also killed the liver cells. So there weren't too many
survivors either way round. When an antitoxin becomes available it should
be the treatment method of choice.

I read somewhere quite recently that the spores are also toxic. So even if
you didn't eat the Death Cap itself, if its spores had fallen on other
edible mushrooms in your basket, some degree of poisoning could result
(though I doubt it would be serious, let alone fatal).

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

As I said earlier 'bloomin 'eck! I am off to Auchan G

On Dec 10, 7:39 pm, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes:
|
| You are absolutely correct, do you know that mushrooms can be taken to
| the pharmacy for identification? Out of a whole basket, only one type
| of mine was edible! The others could be eaten, with the exception of
| one sounding like amoneta? but they would taste awful, so the
| pharmacist said. I will stick to buying them in the shop I think.
|
| Amanita. That genus contains several deadly fungi, including the death
| cap, fool's mushroom and destroying angel. Wikipedia claims that Amanita
| accounts for 95% of deaths by mushroom poisoning.

The reason that it is so dangerous is that A. phalloides looks exactly
like a field mushroom (Agaricus campestris) in the button stage.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

That's it Nick, next time I will take the pharmicist with me :-)

On 10/12/07 20:38, in article ,
"Jeff Layman" wrote:

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

You are absolutely correct, do you know that mushrooms can be taken
to the pharmacy for identification? Out of a whole basket, only one
type of mine was edible! The others could be eaten, with the
exception of one sounding like amoneta? but they would taste awful,
so the pharmacist said. I will stick to buying them in the shop I
think.

Amanita. That genus contains several deadly fungi, including the death
cap, fool's mushroom and destroying angel. Wikipedia claims that
Amanita accounts for 95% of deaths by mushroom poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita

The problem with A. phalloides is that there are two toxins. The first acts
within a few hours, and will lead to vomiting. But by then the second toxin
will have been absorbed, and with that the effects don't show for around 24
hours. By that time it has already destroyed many liver cells. As if that
wasn't bad enough, it is excreted in the bile, and is reabsorbed further
down the gut. From there it goes back to the liver, and destroys more
cells. And so on. In the end, only a liver transplant could ensure
survival.

snip

Sounds rather like the overdosing on paracetamol? The patient appears to
recover and then the secondary effect kicks in? Very nasty indeed and not
to be toyed with.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
"Jeff Layman" writes:
|
| The problem with A. phalloides is that there are two toxins. The first acts
| within a few hours, and will lead to vomiting. But by then the second toxin
| will have been absorbed, and with that the effects don't show for around 24
| hours. By that time it has already destroyed many liver cells. As if that
| wasn't bad enough, it is excreted in the bile, and is reabsorbed further
| down the gut. From there it goes back to the liver, and destroys more
| cells. And so on. In the end, only a liver transplant could ensure
| survival.

Interesting. I knew about the delayed effect, but not the details.

Incidentally, to anyone picking field mushrooms, there is a simple
test for A. phalloides. NEVER eat any mushroom like that until it
has developed enough for the gills to colour up - if you want to eat
real button mushrooms, buy them from a shop or grow them yourself.

Don't test with a silver fork or in any of the other ways described
by folklore - it passes all of them.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

If it has a volva at the base of the stem then it's almost certainly an Aminita,
Agaricus (the normal edible mushrooms that you buy in the shops) don't have a volva.

A really good online fungi guide is this one : http://www.rogersmushrooms.com/

His book is excellent as well

"judith.lea" wrote in message
...
On Dec 3, 11:20 pm, Sacha wrote:
On 3/12/07 17:00, in article ,

"Mike...." wrote:
Following up to (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

"Some sort of japonica", in normal usage, can mean only one of the
Chaenomeles. Japonica as the name of a group of plants means that
and nothing else.

are there not various "japanese" quinces? I understood the meaning to
be that. I had an ormamental one in the garden for a time.

Japanese quinces are usually understood to be Chaenomeles and then there
are
named varieties of that. AFAIK, you can make jelly from them.
Cydonia is the true quince with the large, golden, roughly pear-shaped
fruit
- these are real beauties when mature trees but they're not the
'mysterious
fruit' I'm trying to ID.
--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I have some quince in my back garden and I don't have the faintest if
they are edible or not, my husband laughed when I bought quince at the
local greengrocers to make quince jelly for Christmas, he swears we
have the same thing in the garden, but I am not chancing it - with my
slight knowledge - I am bound to get them confused.

If the quinces are pear-shaped, they are good for jelly and other preserves.
The flowers are white with a pink tinge, and the tree is definitely a tree
(I mean, with a trunk).

If the quinces are apple-shaped, they can be used for jelly, but the result
is less rosy in colour and the taste less pronounced; personally I don't
think it's worth the considerable trouble of making. The flowers of kinds
known to me can be anything from dark red to pure white, and the plant is
more like a bush than a tree. But perhaps there are other varieties of
apple-shaped quinces that are better for cooking than the ones I've tried.

Alan Jones

In article ,
"Alan Jones" writes:
| "judith.lea" wrote in message
| ...
|
| I have some quince in my back garden and I don't have the faintest if
| they are edible or not, my husband laughed when I bought quince at the
| local greengrocers to make quince jelly for Christmas, he swears we
| have the same thing in the garden, but I am not chancing it - with my
| slight knowledge - I am bound to get them confused.

You needn't worry - if it looks much like an apple (including when cut)
and grows easily in the UK, it is edible.

| If the quinces are pear-shaped, ...
|
| If the quinces are apple-shaped, ...

There are Chaenomeles varieties that are pear-shaped and Cydonia
ones that are apple-shaped. The rest of your description is OK.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | If the quinces are pear-shaped, ...
| |
| | If the quinces are apple-shaped, ...
|
| There are Chaenomeles varieties that are pear-shaped and Cydonia
| ones that are apple-shaped. The rest of your description is OK.
|
| and the inside of the pear-shaped type is woody?

Neither Cydonia nor Chaenomeles are woody.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 11/12/07 15:03, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On 11 Dec 2007 14:58:58 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | If the quinces are pear-shaped, ...
| |
| | If the quinces are apple-shaped, ...
|
| There are Chaenomeles varieties that are pear-shaped and Cydonia
| ones that are apple-shaped. The rest of your description is OK.
|
| and the inside of the pear-shaped type is woody?

Neither Cydonia nor Chaenomeles are woody.

I wonder what the woody pear shaped &sized things were that we were given. She
thought they were quince.

Unripe quince, perhaps?
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
Granity writes:
|
| Incidentally, to anyone picking field mushrooms, there is a simple
| test for A. phalloides. NEVER eat any mushroom like that until it
| has developed enough for the gills to colour up - if you want to eat
| real button mushrooms, buy them from a shop or grow them yourself.
|
| Don't test with a silver fork or in any of the other ways described
| by folklore - it passes all of them.
|
| If it has a volva at the base of the stem then it's almost certainly an
| Aminita,
| Agaricus (the normal edible mushrooms that you buy in the shops) don't
| have a volva.

That is true, but is a very BAD test. The remains of the volva can
be hard to see and may be lost during picking. Relying on that is
one of the ways that people kill themselves and others.

The gill colour is far more reliable - Amanita phalloides is white
or greenish, and Agaricus campestris is pinkish, through mid-brown
to almost black, as it ages. That is why you should ALWAYS check
that the gills are clearly pinkish-brown or brown; eating button
mushrooms from the fields is not a safe activity.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| www2.westsussex.gov.uk/environment/heritage/broadleaf_20.pdf
|
| "Straight from the tree quinces are inedible, bullet hard and sour"

And Chaenomeles are much more so. But they are not woody.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | If the quinces are pear-shaped, ...
| |
| | If the quinces are apple-shaped, ...
|
| There are Chaenomeles varieties that are pear-shaped and Cydonia
| ones that are apple-shaped. The rest of your description is OK.
|
| and the inside of the pear-shaped type is woody?

Neither Cydonia nor Chaenomeles are woody.

That depends on your definition of "woody". Fruit from my "Meech's Early
Prolific" quince, even when ripe judging by smell, is hard enough almost to
need sawing apart. Some recipes suggest just hacking out any bruised bits
before simmering to a state where the cooled quinces can be easily peeled
and trimmed (no need to peel if you're making jelly, of course, but I like
quince paste).

The Meech's quince bears large and beautiful fruit, but I don't think their
flavour is as good as I used to get elsewhere from an ancient tree (possibly
the stock from a grafted pear that long ago broke off or otherwise
perished). Its fruit were small and as misshapen as the tree, but the jelly
they yielded was splendid. Yet, when the quinces on my new tree are ripe,
the whole thing looks in sunlight like a William Morris wallpaper, and that
is such a pleasure to the eye that I don't mind the comparative lack of
flavour.

Alan Jones