In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:58:38 -0000, RG wrote:

And what if the office router insists on a single Ethernet wire having
a single Internet address?

I have not found a modern one that does.

Nor me the switches in domestic kit are unmanaged so there is no way to
lock down a given ethernet port to a given MAC address let alone a IP
one.

Sigh. This will be my last post on this, though Charlie is welcome
to Email me directly. That's not the only aspect.

Yes, you can get pure access points, but most people (including
local suppliers) will not know the difference between access
points and routers. With a router, you need to disable DHCP,
but that is not all; you also need to pass the DNS requests on
up and so on. Lastly, DHCP is a broadcast function - do all of
those routers pass broadcasts up to their Internet connection?
I don't know, and all evidence from postings here is that nobody
else does, either - but at least I know that I don't know.

My point is that it will PROBABLY work in a simple fashion,
but that that someone with reasonable clue MAY be needed to do
the configuration, and even then certain combinations of router
may not work at all. Yes, it can be done - but can you guarantee
that a non-computer person (or even averagely clueless local
supplier) can make it work with an arbitrary two routers?

I have been in a situation where I couldn't configure a router
without Internet access, and I couldn't enable Internet access
without configuring the router. I resolved it, but (without
being offensive) neither Charlie nor the average local supplier
would be able to. I wasn't able to do it by skill - luck was
more important (i.e. I had a previous connection and router
and could get there, step by step).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 Charlie Pridham wrote:

The discussion was starting to get a bit technical but it sounds as if
some readers have done what I am wanting to do

Sorry about coming in late to this discussion but I've only just seen
it.

Before I got a wireless router in Reading I had a non-wireless router
into which I plugged a USRobotics wireless access point. In fact that is
the system I still use in France. Over there I use a Siemens router
(used to be called Efficient Networks until Siemens took them over).
There is just one thing plugged into it and that is the USRobotics 5451
wireless access point. That gives us wifi to any computers we bring into
that house. The Siemens router, of course, has DHCP and issues the
access point with an IP number.

It was simplicity itself to set up. Charlie, I think (if I haven't
misunderstood the situation) that your solution should be as easy as
that to set up. Just plug the access point into the end of your
ethernet cable. I think that USR still supply wireless access points - a
quick google brought up a USR 5453.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 David Rance wrote:

It was simplicity itself to set up. Charlie, I think (if I haven't
misunderstood the situation) that your solution should be as easy as
that to set up. Just plug the access point into the end of your
ethernet cable. I think that USR still supply wireless access points -
a quick google brought up a USR 5453.

No, it doesn't seem that USRobotics do simple access points any more but
if you go to, say, Amazon and search for "wireless access points" you'll
see some by TP-Link from between £20 and £30+.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:10:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:03:55 -0000, Charlie Pridham wrote:

The OP just needs a wireless access point, I see e_Buyer have
something for £9.99:

http://www.ebuyer.com/169923-tenda-w...-access-point-
router-extender-w311r-

Don't know anything about it but seems to get good reviews.

Can it really be that simple!! I hope so

Just plug the AP in (power and your ethernet cable into the WAN port),
find its IP address, enter that into a web browser on computer on the
LAN, login with the defaults from the manual, change the login password
(don't forget it!), configure its SSID and wireless security settings,
check that its DHCP *server* is disabled and that should be it.

The hard bit is probably finding out what IP address the AP has been
allocated. I don't do windows so not sure what tools that has, looking in
the DHCP table of your router will probably give you enough to at least
guess it.

As to the device I found above I *really* do not know anything about it,
the price is what grabbed my eye.

Reading all the posts, I think some may be confusing a "wireless
extender" and a "router". The setup of both is relatively
straightforward but in the case of a router, aside from a couple of
simple essentials, there are a number of issues which can degrade
performance if they aren't done properly. Nick has referred to some of
these. Often, in a domestic environment, people don't realise that
with a couple of simple tweaks they could get a bit more speed for
example.

If Charlie has a BTHomeHub3, then, for example, it will allow
specification of a static IP address, easily for wired devices and
with a simple workaround for wireless. But, on the other hand, some of
the Hub's settings need to be "constrained". If Charlie is happy to do
things without knowing why, it'd be easy to "talk" him through those
though the starting point is confirming that he does have the Hub3.

The first question, though, is does he want an extender or a router.
The former will be cheaper but it simply boosts the signal. A router
will cost more but will increase the wireless capacity (bandwidth) of
the network.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

In article ,
The Original Jake wrote:

I said that I wouldn't post, but this is a new point.

If Charlie has a BTHomeHub3, then, for example, it will allow
specification of a static IP address, easily for wired devices and
with a simple workaround for wireless. But, on the other hand, some of
the Hub's settings need to be "constrained". If Charlie is happy to do
things without knowing why, it'd be easy to "talk" him through those
though the starting point is confirming that he does have the Hub3.

Yes, but that is the sort of thing that needs a bit of expertise,
and is why non-computing people are likely to have trouble if they
just plug-and-pray.

The first question, though, is does he want an extender or a router.
The former will be cheaper but it simply boosts the signal. A router
will cost more but will increase the wireless capacity (bandwidth) of
the network.

My concern is far more about what the office router will do if it
is used by two devices simultaneously on the same Ethernet wire.
That is PROBABLY configurable, but I would have to check. Merely
adding distance isn't enough to support that. So Charlie has to
decide if that is necessary - if not, he doesn't need to worry
about it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 10:49:28 -0000, Pete T wrote:

This really is simple actually.......

Agreed.

You buy (for example) a Netgear wireless extender .... see he

A lot of the trouble is that "marketing" get to make up the descriptions
of the kit. To me a "wireless extender" would take an existing WiFi
signal and repeat it, halving through put in the process.

http://tinyurl.com/d3tlxde

you plug the ethernet cable in wherever that is (irrelevant as to
circuits and fuse boards...) in the house and the *extender* broadcasts
that connection wirelessly in the vicinity....simple.

That to me is just a "wireless access point" and more to the point
*isn't* a description of the device you link to, a Netgear WN3000RP. The
WN3000RP *is* an RF repeater and as the OP doesn't have reliable WiFi in
his kitchen no use to him.

The Ethernet port on it is for connecting downstream devices not upstream
to the "router". Page 15 of the WN3000RP Installation Guide:

"3. Will the Extender work if I connect it to the router with an
Ethernet cable?
No. The Extender is designed to connect wirelessly to the router."

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:12:02 +0000, The Original Jake wrote:
Reading all the posts, I think some may be confusing a "wireless
extender" and a "router".

Quite, see my last post. An "extender" is no use as there is no useable
signal in the kitchen to extend, if there was a signal there wouldn't be
a requirement to extend/provide one in the first place...

A "router" is not required either unless you very loosely apply the
marketing use of the word to refer to *any* box that that passes traffic
from one interface to another.

All that is required is a wireless access point.

The first question, though, is does he want an extender or a router.

Niether an access point... B-)

The former will be cheaper but it simply boosts the signal.

No signal to boost...

A router will cost more but will increase the wireless capacity
(bandwidth) of the network.

How? A router doesn't have any wireless capabilty. Unless you are in
marketing, in which case it probably has a network switch and cable/xDSL
modem in it as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

RG wrote in newsp.wo9fv0crgkcl5l@home1:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:38:23 -0000, wrote:

In article op.wo9ej5k3gkcl5l@home1, RG
wrote:

It doesn't need to be that difficult Nick.

I am sorry, but I described the situation, and not a solution.

Provided the DHCP settings are correct, the main router will assign
local
addresses for all devices on the network, even those connected to
the second router.

And what if the office router insists on a single Ethernet wire
having a single Internet address?


I have not found a modern one that does.

My current collection of routers includes:

Virgin 'Superhub' (Netgear)
Netgear DG834GT
Alcatel SpeedTouch 580
Linksys WAG354
Belkin F5D8236
Cisco WAP4410

And all of these will correctly assign multiple local addresses in any
combination of direct connection, through a remote switch and remote
WiFi server.

We also have two CCTV recorders connected by cable through a 6-way
switch into the main modem.


With luck, everything will Just Work. But I am FAR too experienced
to trust anything that is beyond the mainstream requirement without
checking that precise configuration myself - and that means the
precise combination of routers and configurations. Sorry, but modern
software really is that iffy.



Oh my god a Modem twitcher. Scary.

Baz

wrote in :

In article ,
'Mike' wrote:
"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

I have a problem with wireless devices in the house due to extremely
thick stone walls, knowing this I laid a cable through to the
kitchen when doing work on that recently to give us broadband access
in there and that works fine if we use an Ethernet cable to connect.

I can't use the gizmos that plug in at either end and use the house
wiring as the kitchen has a differrent circuit and indeed fuse box
to the rest of the house.

Might be a different fuse box, but if they are on the same phase then
it should work.

If you don't have 3 phase supply into the house for your use, then I
don't think you will have a problem

"Should" is a bit strong - "might" is better. It will depend on
the electrical properties of the house supply and wiring. While
it would certainly work with appropriate devices, those gizmos
are engineered for the typical house. This sounds like atypical
supply arrangements.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

sigh.
Not your last post.
Stop sighing and give us a real insight into your experiese.

Baz

In article , Baz wrote:

With luck, everything will Just Work. But I am FAR too experienced
to trust anything that is beyond the mainstream requirement without
checking that precise configuration myself - and that means the
precise combination of routers and configurations. Sorry, but modern
software really is that iffy.

Oh my god a Modem twitcher. Scary.

Indeed :-) I try to minimise my use of gimmicks, on the grounds
that life is too short - people often get taken aback by the idea
of a complete mobile Luddite also being a bleeding-edge computing
person, but the combination is not rare ....

My extreme modem nuttiness was two back-to-back HiPPi modems to
create a fast link between two dissimilar HPC systems.

I have been using Email since the 1960s, remote system working
since the 1970s (and heavily since the 1980s), and various forms
of dial-up (which includes broadband) since the 1970s. All such
systems start off being for masochistic experts only, gradually
reach the stage of being usable, then usable by non-experts, but
then degrade as more and more gimmickry is added.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in
:

I have a problem with wireless devices in the house due to extremely
thick stone walls, knowing this I laid a cable through to the kitchen
when doing work on that recently to give us broadband access in there
and that works fine if we use an Ethernet cable to connect.

Question; is there anything I can plug into that Ethernet switch box
which would give me a wireless signal at that end?

I can't use the gizmos that plug in at either end and use the house
wiring as the kitchen has a differrent circuit and indeed fuse box to
the rest of the house.

I know there would be dedicated groups out there but I have learnt to
trust some of the posters here (and I may not understand the answer on
a more techy site!)


I will just say that having read most of the threads, there are people who
think that they know, and there are people who know that they think what
they know. = Nothing.

Baz

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:14:23 +0100, Martin wrote:

A router will cost more but will increase the wireless capacity
(bandwidth) of the network.

How? A router doesn't have any wireless capabilty. Unless you are in
marketing, in which case it probably has a network switch and
cable/xDSL modem in it as well.

Both my routers provide wifi and 4 physical ports

In which case you are using the marketing "definition" of "router". A
real router knows nothing about WiFi, xDSL, cable, switches etc, it
simply routes packets from one port to another (or not) based on set of
rules. How those packets arrive or depart from its ports it cares not a
hoot.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:30:00 +0000 (GMT), wrote:

In article ,
The Original Jake wrote:

I said that I wouldn't post, but this is a new point.

If Charlie has a BTHomeHub3, then, for example, it will allow
specification of a static IP address, easily for wired devices and
with a simple workaround for wireless. But, on the other hand, some of
the Hub's settings need to be "constrained". If Charlie is happy to do
things without knowing why, it'd be easy to "talk" him through those
though the starting point is confirming that he does have the Hub3.

Yes, but that is the sort of thing that needs a bit of expertise,
and is why non-computing people are likely to have trouble if they
just plug-and-pray.

The first question, though, is does he want an extender or a router.
The former will be cheaper but it simply boosts the signal. A router
will cost more but will increase the wireless capacity (bandwidth) of
the network.

My concern is far more about what the office router will do if it
is used by two devices simultaneously on the same Ethernet wire.
That is PROBABLY configurable, but I would have to check. Merely
adding distance isn't enough to support that. So Charlie has to
decide if that is necessary - if not, he doesn't need to worry
about it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I've probably used the wrong words. Instead of "extender" I should
have said "access point".

My approach (avoiding the complications of subnets) would be to
configure the router as a wireless access point. Some routers have a
"client" mode which would allow the device to act fully as a router
but these tend to be pricey! (Sorry folks this is technical but Nick
should understand):

1) Configure router 2 to bridge or repeater mode. The procedure
depends on the router.
2) In this case, disable smart channel selection on the BT Hub, set
to channel 11. Set router 2 to channel 6. This will improve
performance by avoiding potential for interference. (I doubt Charlie
is that close to another wireless router in another house.)
3) Disable DHCP on router 2. It is possible to set DHCP using a range
that is within the DHCP range of router 1 but this adds a bit of
complexity to the setup.
4) Turn the BT Hub (not the modem), router 2 and all computers etc.
off
5) Connect the two routers via numbered ports (do not use the
uplink/WAN port on router 2).
6) Fire up the BT Hub and then router 2.
7) Connect to the BT Hub. In advanced settings, click Home Network.
This should show only router 2 (and the device you're accessing it
from) connected. Click on any of the blue text to open that
connection's properties and select "Yes" to always use this IP
address.

With this setup, the two routers have the same SSID. Essentially
router 2 is no longer working as a router.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:42:02 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:12:02 +0000, The Original Jake wrote:
Reading all the posts, I think some may be confusing a "wireless
extender" and a "router".

Quite, see my last post. An "extender" is no use as there is no useable
signal in the kitchen to extend, if there was a signal there wouldn't be
a requirement to extend/provide one in the first place...

A "router" is not required either unless you very loosely apply the
marketing use of the word to refer to *any* box that that passes traffic
from one interface to another.

All that is required is a wireless access point.

The first question, though, is does he want an extender or a router.

Niether an access point... B-)

The former will be cheaper but it simply boosts the signal.

No signal to boost...

A router will cost more but will increase the wireless capacity
(bandwidth) of the network.

How? A router doesn't have any wireless capabilty. Unless you are in
marketing, in which case it probably has a network switch and cable/xDSL
modem in it as well.

My boob - should have said "access point".

Charlie's BT Hub has a wireless capacity. A wireless router would have
a wireless capacity. The ethernet cable connecting the two would have
a greater capacity of course. So with the right setup, admittedly more
complex but fairly straightforward provided the right kit is bought,
Charlie could potentially double his wireless bandwidth.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

"David Rance" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 David Rance wrote:

It was simplicity itself to set up. Charlie, I think (if I haven't
misunderstood the situation) that your solution should be as easy as that
to set up. Just plug the access point into the end of your ethernet
cable. I think that USR still supply wireless access points - a quick
google brought up a USR 5453.

No, it doesn't seem that USRobotics do simple access points any more but
if you go to, say, Amazon and search for "wireless access points" you'll
see some by TP-Link from between £20 and £30+.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk


I have ordered a TP Link router and will let you all know how I get on!

Many thanks for the many helpful bits of advice and enthusiasm to help from
everyone!

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk