Why not do an experiment Sacha? Sow some seed in organic compost and then sell the plants at £3.00 for a pack of 6 labelled 'Organic' and see which you sell most of? The result would be interesting. :-)


Could someone tell me please the point of 'organic' seed? Surely it's the way the plant is grown that makes it organic, not the seed.

On 08/07/2013 19:58, Granity wrote:
Sacha[_10_ Wrote:
Ray was really incensed the other day to see that another nursery
with a fifth of our staff, is charging £3.50 for a pack of 6 baby
lettuces. Ours are £2.50 and there is absonlutely no justification
in organic being more expensive at this stage in their growth! The
compost they're grown in (if different) may be slightly more costly,
but that would add maybe 1p to the whole tray! But while I can
understand fully grown organic veg being more expensive as their
care, treatment and harvesting take more man hours, this is
absolutely not the case with lettuce plants a couple of inches high.
This gives organic growers a bad name though thankfully, not all do
this.

Why not do an experiment Sacha? Sow some seed in organic compost and
then sell the plants at £3.00 for a pack of 6 labelled 'Organic' and see
which you sell most of? The result would be interesting. :-)


Could someone tell me please the point of 'organic' seed? Surely it's
the way the plant is grown that makes it organic, not the seed.




But think of all those harmful chemicals contained in that seed that
would be transmitted in the mature veg consumer.
Assuming you go along with the Homeopathy that 1 part in a million can
have an effect.

In article , david@abacus-
nurseries.co.uk says...

On 08/07/2013 19:58, Granity wrote:

Could someone tell me please the point of 'organic' seed? Surely it's
the way the plant is grown that makes it organic, not the seed.




But think of all those harmful chemicals contained in that seed that
would be transmitted in the mature veg consumer.
Assuming you go along with the Homeopathy that 1 part in a million can
have an effect.

What an eedgit.


Buying organic veg seed is a way to support its producers in
organic agriculture, which is an ethical preference for many.

Other organic seed producers are smaller-scale businesses who
can offer more unusual and Heritage seeds. Thomas Etty is an example.

Janet

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 23:41:21 +0100, Janet wrote:

But think of all those harmful chemicals contained in that seed
that
would be transmitted in the mature veg consumer.
Assuming you go along with the Homeopathy that 1 part in a
million can
have an effect.

What an eedgit.

Buying organic veg seed is a way to support its producers in
organic agriculture, which is an ethical preference for many.

I'm of two minds here.

On the one hand I wish small-scale, local growers to prosper, and in
general the concept of organic is undeniably appealing. I don't know
at what price differential I would consider organic seed not worth
buying (double might be trouble), but the feel-good factors are worth
something.

On the other hand, Homeopathy *is* bunk, and at the core it is flawed
for exactly the sort of reason that David points out. Homeopathy is
worse, of course - the dilution ratios mean that essentially zero of
the supposed active ingredient remains, which is David's point - the
question of whether the ingredient actually has any effect is clearly
moot - but there is also the 'magic shaking'. It's also worse
because it takes people away from treatment that might really help
them.

There may be another problem that the two groups share - many are
sincere in their belief that they have The Truth on their side. I
confess that I have always had a strong reaction to the kind of badly
informed person who will not change their views when the facts are
laid before them, and that probably is a factor in the
feel-good/price balance.

--
Tony Evans (Control) on the decline of usenet: "Usenet has very
little new blood and is overly full of bile spitting vindictive
shits."

On 08/07/2013 19:58, Granity wrote:
Sacha[_10_ Wrote:
Ray was really incensed the other day to see that another nursery
with a fifth of our staff, is charging £3.50 for a pack of 6 baby
lettuces. Ours are £2.50 and there is absonlutely no justification
in organic being more expensive at this stage in their growth!

That isn't the point though. Organic(TM) is a licensed ripoff scam!

This gives organic growers a bad name though thankfully, not all do
this.

Why not do an experiment Sacha? Sow some seed in organic compost and
then sell the plants at £3.00 for a pack of 6 labelled 'Organic' and see
which you sell most of? The result would be interesting. :-)

Yes it would be. I don't think that many people actually fall for this
garbage but some do pay insane prices for supermarket Organic(TM) junk.

Could someone tell me please the point of 'organic' seed? Surely it's
the way the plant is grown that makes it organic, not the seed.

One major difference is that the Organic(TM) seed comes with a nice
selection of interesting diseases and fungi contamination that the
conventional ones would have been treated against. It is a very bad idea
to consume any seeds that have been sold for cultivation.

Organic(TM) preservative free peanut butter is one of the most
potentially dangerous foods on sale to the public. It always contains
fungi capable of making very nasty aflatoxins with long term
carcinogenic risk. Certain boutique machines for making peanut butter
"fresh" in US shops are particularly bad in this respect. eg

http://www.emagazine.com/daily-news/...t-butter-scare

Store it improperly and you are almost certain to get a dose.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 23:41:21 +0100, Janet wrote:

But think of all those harmful chemicals contained in that seed
that
would be transmitted in the mature veg consumer.
Assuming you go along with the Homeopathy that 1 part in a
million can
have an effect.

What an eedgit.

Buying organic veg seed is a way to support its producers in
organic agriculture, which is an ethical preference for many.

I'm of two minds here.

On the one hand I wish small-scale, local growers to prosper, and in
general the concept of organic is undeniably appealing. I don't know
at what price differential I would consider organic seed not worth
buying (double might be trouble), but the feel-good factors are worth
something.

On the other hand, Homeopathy *is* bunk, and at the core it is flawed
for exactly the sort of reason that David points out.

That's a complete red herring to the real issue which focuses on the
ecological aspects of organic production OR, the preservation of old
seed varieties, gene diversity, small-scale producers versus global
megabusiness, and bypassing the "patented seed" issue and all it
entails.

There may be another problem that the two groups share - many are
sincere in their belief that they have The Truth on their side. I
confess that I have always had a strong reaction to the kind of badly
informed person who will not change their views when the facts are
laid before them, and that probably is a factor in the
feel-good/price balance.

I have a bad reaction to the kind of people who out of sheer ignorance
or stupidity introduce a strawman argument to promote their own
uninformed agenda and muddy the waters about a serious topic of concern
to all.

The kind of people who are in fact to blame for the passing of chinese
whisper misinformation among gardeners about the above issues and may
not even realise they are acting as the dupes of Syngenta, Monsanto
etc's campaign to discredit the Organic movement, small seed savers,
etc.

Janet

In article ,
says...

One major difference is that the Organic(TM) seed comes with a nice
selection of interesting diseases and fungi contamination that the
conventional ones would have been treated against.

How surprising then that Organic crop producers (and seed merchants
like Etty's) manage to harvest any crops at all and manage to make a
longterm sustainable living.

Janet.

On 09/07/2013 08:58, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

One major difference is that the Organic(TM) seed comes with a nice
selection of interesting diseases and fungi contamination that the
conventional ones would have been treated against.

How surprising then that Organic crop producers (and seed merchants
like Etty's) manage to harvest any crops at all and manage to make a
longterm sustainable living.

Not really. The reason for their "success" is simply that the vast
majority of crop and seed producers use chemicals to kill off pests and
diseases, and these ringfence the organic producers. The organic
producers are effectively protected by a chemical wall around them.

Remove that protective wall, and everything comes tumbling down -
including the organic producers. If you want the world to be short of
food, go totally organic. If you don't believe that, then you obviously
don't associate potato blight with the Irish Potato Famine.

--

Jeff

On 09/07/2013 08:58, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

One major difference is that the Organic(TM) seed comes with a nice
selection of interesting diseases and fungi contamination that the
conventional ones would have been treated against.

How surprising then that Organic crop producers (and seed merchants
like Etty's) manage to harvest any crops at all and manage to make a
longterm sustainable living.

Janet.

Basically they are freeloading off neighbouring inorganic farms that
keep pests and diseases more or less under control.

Minimum inputs is an entirely rational growing regime, but Organic(TM)
is merely a cynical money making scam to pander to the worried well.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown