On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
snip

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it
will be useful.

Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-)

Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!!

Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad
winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll
now get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life
today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like
me) out there that only contribute occasionally.

I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of
curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just
get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week,
as it was running at around 200 posts a day!

KEEP URG GOING I SAY

--
Roger T

700 ft up in Mid-Wales

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

It's not the best web forum software around. I don't think any of them will deal with sub threads properly - you have to be disciplined about starting new threads when an existing thread bifurcates - but other forums have better layout, ability to edit, notification facilities if you only want to follow one thread, etc.

What I used to enjoy most about urg was the way in which it led into real-life relationships. But that's more a function of the group than the means by which it communicates.

If we did go to a forum, gardenbanter has the advantage of already being there, cost free. It could do with some moderators - good mods can make a big difference to a group. But we can't solve that problem.

Running our own forum would mean someone willing to maintain it, some way of raising the money to run it, and some more people willing to be moderators.

"sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
snip

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it
will be useful.

Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-)

Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!!

Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad
winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now
get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary!

Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good
summer. Well, not ideal anyway!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-11-07 20:33:35 +0000, Ophelia said:

"sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
snip

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it
will be useful.

Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-)

Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!!

Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad
winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll
now get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary!

Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good
summer. Well, not ideal anyway!

I find it quite amusing that the new definition of 'a good summer' is -
what - 5 weeks of sunshine!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 2013-11-07 19:41:29 +0000, Roger Tonkin said:

Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life
today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like
me) out there that only contribute occasionally.

I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of
curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just
get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week,
as it was running at around 200 posts a day!

KEEP URG GOING I SAY

What seems to have got lost in all the brouhaha is that my original
idea was to keep urg going by suggesting people look for new topics to
discuss.

There are only so many times one can be fascinated by a runner bean
failure, a lawnmower that doesn't, or mildew on Michaelmas daisies.
It's hardly any wonder numbers have dwindled to the downright pitiful.
So please delurk, all you present lurkers and put in your two pennorth!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 20:33:35 +0000, Ophelia said:

"sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
snip

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope
it will be useful.

Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-)

Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!!

Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad
winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now
get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary!

Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good
summer. Well, not ideal anyway!

I find it quite amusing that the new definition of 'a good summer' is -
what - 5 weeks of sunshine!

Now when I were a bairn ...

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Yes, that's what I hate about facebook too. My different groups of friends have different interests and ways of looking on life; I wouldn't introduce them to each other in real life, so I don't like the way they all get mixed into one heap on Facebook.

More importantly - I haven't met most urglers. I'm not going to introduce them into my more intimate circle of facebook friends until I have met them, and know them well enough to know I can trust them.

If we moved to a forum, I'd prefer reactive moderation. The occasional nitwit will post, but can be picked up quickly and removed by a mod. Less work for the mod than reading everything, and gives more "ownership" (excuse mgt-speak) for the non-mod members of the group.

But Sasha, when someone suggested you choose something from that blog and repost it here, you said you didn't want to! Maybe most of the rest of us don't feel we have the time to either?

On 07/11/2013 23:27, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-07 19:41:29 +0000, Roger Tonkin said:

Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life
today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like
me) out there that only contribute occasionally.

I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of
curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just
get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week,
as it was running at around 200 posts a day!

KEEP URG GOING I SAY

What seems to have got lost in all the brouhaha is that my original
idea was to keep urg going by suggesting people look for new topics to
discuss.

Well, maybe it's time to comment now that the blog appearance has been
dissected to oblivion. But a general comment on its content first.

I read the blog, and the trouble is that it was too long as it was
really a rant. Short rants are fine; long rants tend to make you turn
off half-way through. And it seemed to want to cover several subjects.
In then end I had trouble seeing the wood for the trees. Was it for or
against GW? Was it about getting children interested? Was it about
supporting nurseries and growers? Did it want more or less detail in GW
("If you are discussing the Chelsea Chop, go into it properly and talk
about the whole process or it makes no sense and it will go wrong", but
"And please never let any of us have to endure 6 minutes of how to jet
wash a path ever again!!". Why not? it's as much a part of gardening as
anything else done in that outside space. And, I don't remember it
being covered before in GW or urg. So there you are, a new subject!).

That's why I almost never read blogs. They are just someone else's
ideas on what I should be doing or thinking about. It's just a "When I
want your opinion I'll give it to you" statement.

I was interested in the point about getting children into gardening. I
suppose that some children may be interested, but I would guess that
children have a few other interests (other than the glass-faced tap and
drag machine). Other than planting a daffodil bulb, and getting a
runner bean seed to sprout, I can't remember doing anything relating to
plants when I was of primary school age. But then I was living in a
city in a house with a very small back-yard garden. I think I tried
growing some runner beans outside, but don't remember the outcome. But
there most certainly weren't the distractions then that kids have today.
We tended then to make (ie physically construct) our own
entertainment. Can you see /any/ kids doing that today? Their
entertainment comes ready-packed. Could they focus on one thing for
more than 20 minutes, unless it's a film or video game? It's probably
why sites like twitter are so successful - you only need a span of
attention of a few seconds, and that is in line with what most user's
limit is. The problem is that you can create anything in the virtual
world so easily with the minimum of effort. That's the attraction.

Look at the people walking round any NGS garden. They are all of, or
near, retirement age. If you see anyone below 50 they stand out like a
sort thumb. I must have been to over 50 gardens in the last 2 or 3
years, and even at the weekends never saw a child. But I didn't expect
to. I am not sure about the statement "...kids love to garden and are
naturals as they don't worry it might not work." How many kids love to
garden? A small minority I expect - probably less than a fraction of a
percent at best. The may seem to like gardening at school, but what
would be the alternative to the gardening hour? And how many kids have
the facilities to garden today, as house plots get smaller and smaller,
and the gardens proportionally more so, as far as I can see.

It would be interesting to see when the urg regular posters - and even
some or the lurkers - started gardening. With me, an interest in plants
started with a present by a friend of a couple of cacti, and I was near
30 at the time. It must have been another 5 years before I started
gardening in earnest.

So I don't think that there is much point in spending a lot of time
trying to get children involved in gardening. Those who are interested
will take it up and stay interested. Those who aren't will either never
take it up, or might later in life. Only then might they become urglers.

Rant over. Or should that be my #Shoutyhalfhour (whatever the # means)
over?! Did you stop reading half-way through? ;-)

There are only so many times one can be fascinated by a runner bean
failure, a lawnmower that doesn't, or mildew on Michaelmas daisies.
It's hardly any wonder numbers have dwindled to the downright pitiful.

I am sure that you actually mean "a select few"...

So please delurk, all you present lurkers and put in your two pennorth!

May I qualify that? Please add your comments, but only if you have
something to say. There are already enough posters here who waffle on
and on. Don't argue - I write as one with great experience!

--

Jeff

On 2013-11-07 23:37:35 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 20:33:35 +0000, Ophelia said:

"sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
snip

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope
it will be useful.

Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-)

Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!!

Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad
winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now
get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary!

Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good
summer. Well, not ideal anyway!

I find it quite amusing that the new definition of 'a good summer' is -
what - 5 weeks of sunshine!

Now when I were a bairn ...

Seems that way to me, too. In memory, every day was spent on the beach
with friends. We were rarely out of the water!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 2013-11-08 15:10:16 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

On 07/11/2013 23:27, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-07 19:41:29 +0000, Roger Tonkin said:

Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life
today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like
me) out there that only contribute occasionally.

I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of
curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just
get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week,
as it was running at around 200 posts a day!

KEEP URG GOING I SAY

What seems to have got lost in all the brouhaha is that my original
idea was to keep urg going by suggesting people look for new topics to
discuss.

Well, maybe it's time to comment now that the blog appearance has been
dissected to oblivion. But a general comment on its content first.

I read the blog, and the trouble is that it was too long as it was
really a rant. Short rants are fine; long rants tend to make you turn
off half-way through. And it seemed to want to cover several subjects.
In then end I had trouble seeing the wood for the trees. Was it for or
against GW? Was it about getting children interested? Was it about
supporting nurseries and growers? Did it want more or less detail in GW
("If you are discussing the Chelsea Chop, go into it properly and talk
about the whole process or it makes no sense and it will go wrong", but
"And please never let any of us have to endure 6 minutes of how to jet
wash a path ever again!!". Why not? it's as much a part of gardening
as anything else done in that outside space. And, I don't remember it
being covered before in GW or urg. So there you are, a new subject!).

That's why I almost never read blogs. They are just someone else's
ideas on what I should be doing or thinking about. It's just a "When
I want your opinion I'll give it to you" statement.

I was interested in the point about getting children into gardening. I
suppose that some children may be interested, but I would guess that
children have a few other interests (other than the glass-faced tap and
drag machine). Other than planting a daffodil bulb, and getting a
runner bean seed to sprout, I can't remember doing anything relating to
plants when I was of primary school age. But then I was living in a
city in a house with a very small back-yard garden. I think I tried
growing some runner beans outside, but don't remember the outcome. But
there most certainly weren't the distractions then that kids have
today. We tended then to make (ie physically construct) our own
entertainment. Can you see /any/ kids doing that today? Their
entertainment comes ready-packed. Could they focus on one thing for
more than 20 minutes, unless it's a film or video game? It's probably
why sites like twitter are so successful - you only need a span of
attention of a few seconds, and that is in line with what most user's
limit is. The problem is that you can create anything in the virtual
world so easily with the minimum of effort. That's the attraction.

Look at the people walking round any NGS garden. They are all of, or
near, retirement age. If you see anyone below 50 they stand out like a
sort thumb. I must have been to over 50 gardens in the last 2 or 3
years, and even at the weekends never saw a child. But I didn't expect
to. I am not sure about the statement "...kids love to garden and are
naturals as they don't worry it might not work." How many kids love to
garden? A small minority I expect - probably less than a fraction of a
percent at best. The may seem to like gardening at school, but what
would be the alternative to the gardening hour? And how many kids have
the facilities to garden today, as house plots get smaller and smaller,
and the gardens proportionally more so, as far as I can see.

It would be interesting to see when the urg regular posters - and even
some or the lurkers - started gardening. With me, an interest in
plants started with a present by a friend of a couple of cacti, and I
was near 30 at the time. It must have been another 5 years before I
started gardening in earnest.

So I don't think that there is much point in spending a lot of time
trying to get children involved in gardening. Those who are interested
will take it up and stay interested. Those who aren't will either
never take it up, or might later in life. Only then might they become
urglers.

Rant over. Or should that be my #Shoutyhalfhour (whatever the # means)
over?! Did you stop reading half-way through? ;-)

There are only so many times one can be fascinated by a runner bean
failure, a lawnmower that doesn't, or mildew on Michaelmas daisies.
It's hardly any wonder numbers have dwindled to the downright pitiful.

I am sure that you actually mean "a select few"...

So please delurk, all you present lurkers and put in your two pennorth!

May I qualify that? Please add your comments, but only if you have
something to say. There are already enough posters here who waffle on
and on. Don't argue - I write as one with great experience!

In the immortal words of Mandy R-D "I would say this, wouldn't I" but
in fact that blog has actually achieved what I was getting at. You've
read it and discussed it. Even if you didn't like the format, as some
didn't, you didn't just dismiss out out of hand and you did actually
have something to say about it. That was the whole idea, so thank you
for catching on!
Just to take the children aspect of it, one of the reasons that comes
up often among professional gardeners/nurserymen, is the lack of young
people going into the industry AND one of the reasons given is pretty
much related to what you said about making your own entertainment when
young. Country children used to spend a lot of time outside so almost
learned a certain amount by default. And city children's parents often
used to grow some veg in a very small plot or have an allotment, so the
concept of planting something and watching it grow was learned early
on. Children may have moved away from it but then returned in later
years when they had families of their own. Now, entertainment and any
leisure activities seem to come mostly pre-packaged and it's said to be
hard to prise the teenagers off the sofa!

As to when urglers first started gardening, I hope you'll start another
thread on that. I must admit a couple of cactus had never entered my
life to get me interested, so I wouldn't have thought of that!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

"sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 23:37:35 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 20:33:35 +0000, Ophelia said:

"sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
snip

I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope
it will be useful.

Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-)

Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!!

Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad
winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll
now
get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary!

Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good
summer. Well, not ideal anyway!

I find it quite amusing that the new definition of 'a good summer' is -
what - 5 weeks of sunshine!

Now when I were a bairn ...

Seems that way to me, too. In memory, every day was spent on the beach
with friends. We were rarely out of the water!

That is exactly the way it was!!! I remember it well! Now last year, did
we not have 3 week bbq weather?


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 12:51:29 +0100, kay
wrote:


'David in Normandy[_8_ Wrote:
;994785']
I'm a moderator on a very large forum and yes, aside from diplomatic
skills rivalling those of an international diplomat, a thick skin
certainly helps! lol You also need to be a detective and have a keen
nose for detecting bullshit. I've been called every insult imaginable at

some time or other and even been threatened with physical harm. Another

good reason for keeping one's real life identity separate from forum
identities - that's the thing I dislike about facebook, its all
interconnected.
.

Yes, that's what I hate about facebook too. My different groups of
friends have different interests and ways of looking on life; I wouldn't
introduce them to each other in real life, so I don't like the way they
all get mixed into one heap on Facebook.

That's why I gave up using Facebook about a week after I started using
it. My gardening friends were all mixed up with my neural network
associates. I must have looked like a real idiot.


More importantly - I haven't met most urglers. I'm not going to
introduce them into my more intimate circle of facebook friends until I
have met them, and know them well enough to know I can trust them.

If we moved to a forum, I'd prefer reactive moderation. The occasional
nitwit will post, but can be picked up quickly and removed by a mod.
Less work for the mod than reading everything, and gives more
"ownership" (excuse mgt-speak) for the non-mod members of the group.

The main trouble with forums is they need logging in and out. It's
summed up by chap who compares forums with getting lots of newspapers,
only one comes from each newsagent. If I used forums instead of Usenet
I would need hours just to log in to each one as I use lots of
newsgroups.

Steve

On Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:16:54 +0100, David in Normandy wrote:

On 07/11/2013 15:06, Sacha wrote:


Thanks, David but no thanks! While I see the point you're making, my
personal view is that urg should remain advertisement free, with the
exceptions of sig.files rules already in place.

The fundamental problem with advertisement free forums is they don't
have the finance to pay for the site or its bandwidth. This means either
asking members to pay a subscription fee and that is extremely unlikely
to succeed or to use free hosting, which may have limits on the
bandwidth anyway and include adverts by the host, over which the forum
operator would have little or no control.

There is no easy or palatable alternative to the Usenet based URG as far
as I can see and as most of us tend to agree, it is gradually slipping
into oblivion.

I'm late to this thread and haven't read it all yet.

The Maple Society forum is hosted by the University of British Columbia
botanical garden as a service. Perhaps we have some connection to a
garden or institution that would be willing to host a forum?

Personally I have no problem with moderated forums, although someone has
to volunteer to do the moderating.

-E

--
Gardening in Lower Normandy