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#76
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At the risk of being unpopular
On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said:
"Sacha" wrote in message ... snip I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it will be useful. Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-) Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!! Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary! -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#77
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At the risk of being unpopular
Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life
today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like me) out there that only contribute occasionally. I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week, as it was running at around 200 posts a day! KEEP URG GOING I SAY -- Roger T 700 ft up in Mid-Wales --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#78
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What I used to enjoy most about urg was the way in which it led into real-life relationships. But that's more a function of the group than the means by which it communicates. If we did go to a forum, gardenbanter has the advantage of already being there, cost free. It could do with some moderators - good mods can make a big difference to a group. But we can't solve that problem. Running our own forum would mean someone willing to maintain it, some way of raising the money to run it, and some more people willing to be moderators.
__________________
getstats - A society in which our lives and choices are enriched by an understanding of statistics. Go to www.getstats.org.uk for more information |
#79
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At the risk of being unpopular
"sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said: "Sacha" wrote in message ... snip I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it will be useful. Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-) Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!! Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary! Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good summer. Well, not ideal anyway! -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#80
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At the risk of being unpopular
On 2013-11-07 20:33:35 +0000, Ophelia said:
"sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said: "Sacha" wrote in message ... snip I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it will be useful. Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-) Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!! Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary! Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good summer. Well, not ideal anyway! I find it quite amusing that the new definition of 'a good summer' is - what - 5 weeks of sunshine! -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon www.helpforheroes.org.uk |
#81
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At the risk of being unpopular
On 2013-11-07 19:41:29 +0000, Roger Tonkin said:
Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like me) out there that only contribute occasionally. I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week, as it was running at around 200 posts a day! KEEP URG GOING I SAY What seems to have got lost in all the brouhaha is that my original idea was to keep urg going by suggesting people look for new topics to discuss. There are only so many times one can be fascinated by a runner bean failure, a lawnmower that doesn't, or mildew on Michaelmas daisies. It's hardly any wonder numbers have dwindled to the downright pitiful. So please delurk, all you present lurkers and put in your two pennorth! -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon www.helpforheroes.org.uk |
#82
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At the risk of being unpopular
"Sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 20:33:35 +0000, Ophelia said: "sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said: "Sacha" wrote in message ... snip I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it will be useful. Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-) Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!! Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary! Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good summer. Well, not ideal anyway! I find it quite amusing that the new definition of 'a good summer' is - what - 5 weeks of sunshine! Now when I were a bairn ... -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#83
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Quote:
More importantly - I haven't met most urglers. I'm not going to introduce them into my more intimate circle of facebook friends until I have met them, and know them well enough to know I can trust them. If we moved to a forum, I'd prefer reactive moderation. The occasional nitwit will post, but can be picked up quickly and removed by a mod. Less work for the mod than reading everything, and gives more "ownership" (excuse mgt-speak) for the non-mod members of the group.
__________________
getstats - A society in which our lives and choices are enriched by an understanding of statistics. Go to www.getstats.org.uk for more information |
#84
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But Sasha, when someone suggested you choose something from that blog and repost it here, you said you didn't want to! Maybe most of the rest of us don't feel we have the time to either?
__________________
getstats - A society in which our lives and choices are enriched by an understanding of statistics. Go to www.getstats.org.uk for more information |
#85
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At the risk of being unpopular
On 07/11/2013 23:27, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-07 19:41:29 +0000, Roger Tonkin said: Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like me) out there that only contribute occasionally. I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week, as it was running at around 200 posts a day! KEEP URG GOING I SAY What seems to have got lost in all the brouhaha is that my original idea was to keep urg going by suggesting people look for new topics to discuss. Well, maybe it's time to comment now that the blog appearance has been dissected to oblivion. But a general comment on its content first. I read the blog, and the trouble is that it was too long as it was really a rant. Short rants are fine; long rants tend to make you turn off half-way through. And it seemed to want to cover several subjects. In then end I had trouble seeing the wood for the trees. Was it for or against GW? Was it about getting children interested? Was it about supporting nurseries and growers? Did it want more or less detail in GW ("If you are discussing the Chelsea Chop, go into it properly and talk about the whole process or it makes no sense and it will go wrong", but "And please never let any of us have to endure 6 minutes of how to jet wash a path ever again!!". Why not? it's as much a part of gardening as anything else done in that outside space. And, I don't remember it being covered before in GW or urg. So there you are, a new subject!). That's why I almost never read blogs. They are just someone else's ideas on what I should be doing or thinking about. It's just a "When I want your opinion I'll give it to you" statement. I was interested in the point about getting children into gardening. I suppose that some children may be interested, but I would guess that children have a few other interests (other than the glass-faced tap and drag machine). Other than planting a daffodil bulb, and getting a runner bean seed to sprout, I can't remember doing anything relating to plants when I was of primary school age. But then I was living in a city in a house with a very small back-yard garden. I think I tried growing some runner beans outside, but don't remember the outcome. But there most certainly weren't the distractions then that kids have today. We tended then to make (ie physically construct) our own entertainment. Can you see /any/ kids doing that today? Their entertainment comes ready-packed. Could they focus on one thing for more than 20 minutes, unless it's a film or video game? It's probably why sites like twitter are so successful - you only need a span of attention of a few seconds, and that is in line with what most user's limit is. The problem is that you can create anything in the virtual world so easily with the minimum of effort. That's the attraction. Look at the people walking round any NGS garden. They are all of, or near, retirement age. If you see anyone below 50 they stand out like a sort thumb. I must have been to over 50 gardens in the last 2 or 3 years, and even at the weekends never saw a child. But I didn't expect to. I am not sure about the statement "...kids love to garden and are naturals as they don't worry it might not work." How many kids love to garden? A small minority I expect - probably less than a fraction of a percent at best. The may seem to like gardening at school, but what would be the alternative to the gardening hour? And how many kids have the facilities to garden today, as house plots get smaller and smaller, and the gardens proportionally more so, as far as I can see. It would be interesting to see when the urg regular posters - and even some or the lurkers - started gardening. With me, an interest in plants started with a present by a friend of a couple of cacti, and I was near 30 at the time. It must have been another 5 years before I started gardening in earnest. So I don't think that there is much point in spending a lot of time trying to get children involved in gardening. Those who are interested will take it up and stay interested. Those who aren't will either never take it up, or might later in life. Only then might they become urglers. Rant over. Or should that be my #Shoutyhalfhour (whatever the # means) over?! Did you stop reading half-way through? ;-) There are only so many times one can be fascinated by a runner bean failure, a lawnmower that doesn't, or mildew on Michaelmas daisies. It's hardly any wonder numbers have dwindled to the downright pitiful. I am sure that you actually mean "a select few"... So please delurk, all you present lurkers and put in your two pennorth! May I qualify that? Please add your comments, but only if you have something to say. There are already enough posters here who waffle on and on. Don't argue - I write as one with great experience! -- Jeff |
#86
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At the risk of being unpopular
On 2013-11-07 23:37:35 +0000, Ophelia said:
"Sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 20:33:35 +0000, Ophelia said: "sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said: "Sacha" wrote in message ... snip I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it will be useful. Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-) Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!! Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary! Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good summer. Well, not ideal anyway! I find it quite amusing that the new definition of 'a good summer' is - what - 5 weeks of sunshine! Now when I were a bairn ... Seems that way to me, too. In memory, every day was spent on the beach with friends. We were rarely out of the water! -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#87
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At the risk of being unpopular
On 2013-11-08 15:10:16 +0000, Jeff Layman said:
On 07/11/2013 23:27, Sacha wrote: On 2013-11-07 19:41:29 +0000, Roger Tonkin said: Well Sacha, you certainly made this group come to life today, revealing that there are many more lurkers(like me) out there that only contribute occasionally. I did subscribe a few weeks ago to a DIY group out of curiousity (DIY is really a pet hate of mine - I just get forced to do it!). I gave up after about a week, as it was running at around 200 posts a day! KEEP URG GOING I SAY What seems to have got lost in all the brouhaha is that my original idea was to keep urg going by suggesting people look for new topics to discuss. Well, maybe it's time to comment now that the blog appearance has been dissected to oblivion. But a general comment on its content first. I read the blog, and the trouble is that it was too long as it was really a rant. Short rants are fine; long rants tend to make you turn off half-way through. And it seemed to want to cover several subjects. In then end I had trouble seeing the wood for the trees. Was it for or against GW? Was it about getting children interested? Was it about supporting nurseries and growers? Did it want more or less detail in GW ("If you are discussing the Chelsea Chop, go into it properly and talk about the whole process or it makes no sense and it will go wrong", but "And please never let any of us have to endure 6 minutes of how to jet wash a path ever again!!". Why not? it's as much a part of gardening as anything else done in that outside space. And, I don't remember it being covered before in GW or urg. So there you are, a new subject!). That's why I almost never read blogs. They are just someone else's ideas on what I should be doing or thinking about. It's just a "When I want your opinion I'll give it to you" statement. I was interested in the point about getting children into gardening. I suppose that some children may be interested, but I would guess that children have a few other interests (other than the glass-faced tap and drag machine). Other than planting a daffodil bulb, and getting a runner bean seed to sprout, I can't remember doing anything relating to plants when I was of primary school age. But then I was living in a city in a house with a very small back-yard garden. I think I tried growing some runner beans outside, but don't remember the outcome. But there most certainly weren't the distractions then that kids have today. We tended then to make (ie physically construct) our own entertainment. Can you see /any/ kids doing that today? Their entertainment comes ready-packed. Could they focus on one thing for more than 20 minutes, unless it's a film or video game? It's probably why sites like twitter are so successful - you only need a span of attention of a few seconds, and that is in line with what most user's limit is. The problem is that you can create anything in the virtual world so easily with the minimum of effort. That's the attraction. Look at the people walking round any NGS garden. They are all of, or near, retirement age. If you see anyone below 50 they stand out like a sort thumb. I must have been to over 50 gardens in the last 2 or 3 years, and even at the weekends never saw a child. But I didn't expect to. I am not sure about the statement "...kids love to garden and are naturals as they don't worry it might not work." How many kids love to garden? A small minority I expect - probably less than a fraction of a percent at best. The may seem to like gardening at school, but what would be the alternative to the gardening hour? And how many kids have the facilities to garden today, as house plots get smaller and smaller, and the gardens proportionally more so, as far as I can see. It would be interesting to see when the urg regular posters - and even some or the lurkers - started gardening. With me, an interest in plants started with a present by a friend of a couple of cacti, and I was near 30 at the time. It must have been another 5 years before I started gardening in earnest. So I don't think that there is much point in spending a lot of time trying to get children involved in gardening. Those who are interested will take it up and stay interested. Those who aren't will either never take it up, or might later in life. Only then might they become urglers. Rant over. Or should that be my #Shoutyhalfhour (whatever the # means) over?! Did you stop reading half-way through? ;-) There are only so many times one can be fascinated by a runner bean failure, a lawnmower that doesn't, or mildew on Michaelmas daisies. It's hardly any wonder numbers have dwindled to the downright pitiful. I am sure that you actually mean "a select few"... So please delurk, all you present lurkers and put in your two pennorth! May I qualify that? Please add your comments, but only if you have something to say. There are already enough posters here who waffle on and on. Don't argue - I write as one with great experience! In the immortal words of Mandy R-D "I would say this, wouldn't I" but in fact that blog has actually achieved what I was getting at. You've read it and discussed it. Even if you didn't like the format, as some didn't, you didn't just dismiss out out of hand and you did actually have something to say about it. That was the whole idea, so thank you for catching on! Just to take the children aspect of it, one of the reasons that comes up often among professional gardeners/nurserymen, is the lack of young people going into the industry AND one of the reasons given is pretty much related to what you said about making your own entertainment when young. Country children used to spend a lot of time outside so almost learned a certain amount by default. And city children's parents often used to grow some veg in a very small plot or have an allotment, so the concept of planting something and watching it grow was learned early on. Children may have moved away from it but then returned in later years when they had families of their own. Now, entertainment and any leisure activities seem to come mostly pre-packaged and it's said to be hard to prise the teenagers off the sofa! As to when urglers first started gardening, I hope you'll start another thread on that. I must admit a couple of cactus had never entered my life to get me interested, so I wouldn't have thought of that! -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon |
#88
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At the risk of being unpopular
"sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 23:37:35 +0000, Ophelia said: "Sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 20:33:35 +0000, Ophelia said: "sacha" wrote in message ... On 2013-11-07 18:58:52 +0000, Ophelia said: "Sacha" wrote in message ... snip I will post one thing though before I go back into lurkdom and hope it will be useful. Thank you and may I say that I hope it's absolutely wrong!! ;-) Groannnnnnnnnn so do I!!!! Purely as speculation someone else said that to me today - about a bad winter, I mean. His belief is that, having had a good summer, we'll now get a hard winter! I don't think 'optimism' is in his dictionary! Not sure about that. From the posts here not everyone has had a good summer. Well, not ideal anyway! I find it quite amusing that the new definition of 'a good summer' is - what - 5 weeks of sunshine! Now when I were a bairn ... Seems that way to me, too. In memory, every day was spent on the beach with friends. We were rarely out of the water! That is exactly the way it was!!! I remember it well! Now last year, did we not have 3 week bbq weather? -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#89
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At the risk of being unpopular
On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 12:51:29 +0100, kay
wrote: 'David in Normandy[_8_ Wrote: ;994785'] I'm a moderator on a very large forum and yes, aside from diplomatic skills rivalling those of an international diplomat, a thick skin certainly helps! lol You also need to be a detective and have a keen nose for detecting bullshit. I've been called every insult imaginable at some time or other and even been threatened with physical harm. Another good reason for keeping one's real life identity separate from forum identities - that's the thing I dislike about facebook, its all interconnected. . Yes, that's what I hate about facebook too. My different groups of friends have different interests and ways of looking on life; I wouldn't introduce them to each other in real life, so I don't like the way they all get mixed into one heap on Facebook. That's why I gave up using Facebook about a week after I started using it. My gardening friends were all mixed up with my neural network associates. I must have looked like a real idiot. More importantly - I haven't met most urglers. I'm not going to introduce them into my more intimate circle of facebook friends until I have met them, and know them well enough to know I can trust them. If we moved to a forum, I'd prefer reactive moderation. The occasional nitwit will post, but can be picked up quickly and removed by a mod. Less work for the mod than reading everything, and gives more "ownership" (excuse mgt-speak) for the non-mod members of the group. The main trouble with forums is they need logging in and out. It's summed up by chap who compares forums with getting lots of newspapers, only one comes from each newsagent. If I used forums instead of Usenet I would need hours just to log in to each one as I use lots of newsgroups. Steve |
#90
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At the risk of being unpopular
On Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:16:54 +0100, David in Normandy wrote:
On 07/11/2013 15:06, Sacha wrote: Thanks, David but no thanks! While I see the point you're making, my personal view is that urg should remain advertisement free, with the exceptions of sig.files rules already in place. The fundamental problem with advertisement free forums is they don't have the finance to pay for the site or its bandwidth. This means either asking members to pay a subscription fee and that is extremely unlikely to succeed or to use free hosting, which may have limits on the bandwidth anyway and include adverts by the host, over which the forum operator would have little or no control. There is no easy or palatable alternative to the Usenet based URG as far as I can see and as most of us tend to agree, it is gradually slipping into oblivion. I'm late to this thread and haven't read it all yet. The Maple Society forum is hosted by the University of British Columbia botanical garden as a service. Perhaps we have some connection to a garden or institution that would be willing to host a forum? Personally I have no problem with moderated forums, although someone has to volunteer to do the moderating. -E -- Gardening in Lower Normandy |
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