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#16
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 19:47, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... Hi again Ophelia, I'm dealing with the climbing Hydrangea first as it should be pruned after flowering, if needed. In fact, The Book says no formative pruning is necessary. However, looking at your pic, I can see that, indeed, there is a lot of growth low down. It certainly *looks* healthy enough, so I'm going for a 'shot in the dark': as far as I can see, no part of the hydrangea is attached (by aerial roots) to anything, although it seems to be roughly supported by the trellis behind, and this may be the problem. (I'm surmising here that the problem is that it is not really climbing and growing away, but putting all its growth near the bottom of what is effectively the trunk?) I just didn't understand why the trunk was sprouting so much growth. It always used to be bare. There has been plenty of growth at the top and plenty of flowers. Actually almost the whole of the trunk is now lush) I have never tied it to the trellis, it just seemed to attach itself I will post a pic of the top if that would be helpful - and if you don't mind? It would give you a better view. Certainly I have never pruned it. I wouldn't really know if it needed it or not A climbing hydrangea needs to be tied in to a supporting structure like a wall or tree until it forms aerial roots and securely attaches itself. Once it has done this, apparently, it will climb away vigorously. So, if my surmise is correct, you will need to give it a proper support, tie young growths in until they 'take' and stand well back. Thank you! . I will check it out in the morning and cut out the dead flowers and make sure it is all secure. It sits next to the cotoneaster so maybe they support each other Hoping this is what you want to hear ;~). Oh yes I am Very Grateful for All your advice! I know very little and am gardening 'in the dark' if you see what I mean. I have been reading here and have been learning bit by bit, but not as fully as the advice you are giving me now))) This is the garden at our cottage and I haven't had too much time to spend up here anyway, apart from the fact that we have been travelling with work for several years as well, so this garden has been somewhat neglected. I will post a pic of the tops ... if that is ok with you? Thank you very much! Ophelia By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new. It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of trims after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received wisdom is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If there is some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it as best you can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
#17
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 20:18, Spider wrote:
On 27/08/2014 19:47, Ophelia wrote: "Spider" wrote in message ... Hi again Ophelia, I'm dealing with the climbing Hydrangea first as it should be pruned after flowering, if needed. In fact, The Book says no formative pruning is necessary. However, looking at your pic, I can see that, indeed, there is a lot of growth low down. It certainly *looks* healthy enough, so I'm going for a 'shot in the dark': as far as I can see, no part of the hydrangea is attached (by aerial roots) to anything, although it seems to be roughly supported by the trellis behind, and this may be the problem. (I'm surmising here that the problem is that it is not really climbing and growing away, but putting all its growth near the bottom of what is effectively the trunk?) I just didn't understand why the trunk was sprouting so much growth. It always used to be bare. There has been plenty of growth at the top and plenty of flowers. Actually almost the whole of the trunk is now lush) I have never tied it to the trellis, it just seemed to attach itself I will post a pic of the top if that would be helpful - and if you don't mind? It would give you a better view. Certainly I have never pruned it. I wouldn't really know if it needed it or not A climbing hydrangea needs to be tied in to a supporting structure like a wall or tree until it forms aerial roots and securely attaches itself. Once it has done this, apparently, it will climb away vigorously. So, if my surmise is correct, you will need to give it a proper support, tie young growths in until they 'take' and stand well back. Thank you! . I will check it out in the morning and cut out the dead flowers and make sure it is all secure. It sits next to the cotoneaster so maybe they support each other Hoping this is what you want to hear ;~). Oh yes I am Very Grateful for All your advice! I know very little and am gardening 'in the dark' if you see what I mean. I have been reading here and have been learning bit by bit, but not as fully as the advice you are giving me now))) This is the garden at our cottage and I haven't had too much time to spend up here anyway, apart from the fact that we have been travelling with work for several years as well, so this garden has been somewhat neglected. I will post a pic of the tops ... if that is ok with you? Thank you very much! Ophelia By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new. It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of trims after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received wisdom is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If there is some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it as best you can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon. Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth? Otherwise, I'm wondering about a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your tree? Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at the moment and I'm thinking out loud. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
#18
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... apple http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxms/3 The new shoots and branches are well below the fruiting top and there is a big gap between both. It is very sparse, isn't it?! Not just few branches, but few leaves, too. I'm slightly concerned that the tree appears to be right by paving slabs or perhaps steps, with grass growing fairly close to it. Yes, it is near slabs and the grass is rather overgrown!!! I haven't been here for a long time Since we have been back though I have been running the water hose on that area for quite a long time. The first may prevent water, and therefore nutrients, reaching the tree. The second is certainly taking nutrients and water from the tree. Even if the growth were better balanced, you could expect to get 'bitter pit' in your apples. This occurs when the tree cannot take up enough calcium. Usually, the calcium is in the soil, but shortage of water prevents the tree from taking advantage of it in the dissolved form it needs. If you've had bitter pit in your apples, you will know about it, because it renders them inedible. I understand! Luckily the few apples we have atm taste good! Not too many but we are enjoying them. I am not sure what has happened in previous years because we haven't been here. Could any falls have provided some kind of food ... or is that just daft? As to pruning, you certainly need to cut back that leader in winter. There is a significant lower branch crossing and potentially rubbing the main trunk, or so it appears. Yes! You are right! I guess I will learn from my new book which are the ones to leave? I can remember trying to prune it before in years past and was afraid of cutting out too much, but yes, I did leave some crossed branches You will need to cut this back as far as the rising upright branch with which it makes a 'V' shape. You will also need to take out the much smaller branch on the right which is growing towards the trunk. It appears that the tree has not been well pruned before, as I'm seeing dead or dying stubs left from old pruning cuts, and even a tear in the bark higher up where a branch has been pulled away, rather than cut. All these should be cut out or back to clean wood, if possible. Oh my. Yes! I will do that! In Winter you say? Apart from that, I would leave it alone and see how it responds. It is a mistake to remove too much wood at once. Do your pruning in winter when the tree is dormant. In Spring, when it starts to put on growth, give it a feed with general purpose fertiliser. When it starts to produce fruitlets, give it a high potash feed and keep it well watered. I will! We intend to stay here for some time now. Sorry, had to do this is in a hurry. Husband Thingy serving dinner! Hope what I've said makes sense. I am working on it and will get it sorted) (All saved for future reference!) I'll look in later in case of questions. (I may have to do the other shrubs/tree on Friday). Thank you but I am in no hurry! I am just so thrilled that you would take so much time and trouble to help! Enjoy your dinner) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#19
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new. It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of trims after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received wisdom is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If there is some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it as best you can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon. Thanks, Spider))) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#20
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth? Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I don't think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't know because we haven't been here for a long time. Otherwise, I'm wondering about a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your tree? Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents around! Could that account for the extra lower growth? Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at the moment and I'm thinking out loud. Please do I am thrilled you are bothering) Thank you -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#21
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
Spider wrote in
: When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! JD |
#22
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 20:47, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... apple http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxms/3 The new shoots and branches are well below the fruiting top and there is a big gap between both. It is very sparse, isn't it?! Not just few branches, but few leaves, too. I'm slightly concerned that the tree appears to be right by paving slabs or perhaps steps, with grass growing fairly close to it. Yes, it is near slabs and the grass is rather overgrown!!! I haven't been here for a long time Since we have been back though I have been running the water hose on that area for quite a long time. The first may prevent water, and therefore nutrients, reaching the tree. The second is certainly taking nutrients and water from the tree. Even if the growth were better balanced, you could expect to get 'bitter pit' in your apples. This occurs when the tree cannot take up enough calcium. Usually, the calcium is in the soil, but shortage of water prevents the tree from taking advantage of it in the dissolved form it needs. If you've had bitter pit in your apples, you will know about it, because it renders them inedible. I understand! Luckily the few apples we have atm taste good! Not too many but we are enjoying them. I am not sure what has happened in previous years because we haven't been here. Could any falls have provided some kind of food ... or is that just daft? As to pruning, you certainly need to cut back that leader in winter. There is a significant lower branch crossing and potentially rubbing the main trunk, or so it appears. Yes! You are right! I guess I will learn from my new book which are the ones to leave? I can remember trying to prune it before in years past and was afraid of cutting out too much, but yes, I did leave some crossed branches You will need to cut this back as far as the rising upright branch with which it makes a 'V' shape. You will also need to take out the much smaller branch on the right which is growing towards the trunk. It appears that the tree has not been well pruned before, as I'm seeing dead or dying stubs left from old pruning cuts, and even a tear in the bark higher up where a branch has been pulled away, rather than cut. All these should be cut out or back to clean wood, if possible. Oh my. Yes! I will do that! In Winter you say? Apart from that, I would leave it alone and see how it responds. It is a mistake to remove too much wood at once. Do your pruning in winter when the tree is dormant. In Spring, when it starts to put on growth, give it a feed with general purpose fertiliser. When it starts to produce fruitlets, give it a high potash feed and keep it well watered. I will! We intend to stay here for some time now. Sorry, had to do this is in a hurry. Husband Thingy serving dinner! Hope what I've said makes sense. I am working on it and will get it sorted) (All saved for future reference!) I'll look in later in case of questions. (I may have to do the other shrubs/tree on Friday). Thank you but I am in no hurry! I am just so thrilled that you would take so much time and trouble to help! Enjoy your dinner) I'm very happy to help where I can and I'm really glad if it's helping you. I hate all the mystery and angst surrounding pruning. Once you know where to prune and especially *why* you're pruning, it all becomes very common-sensical. Alas, there are gaps in my knowledge, but I am trying to learn more. Having grown some of the trees/shrubs and gained experience of them - including making mistakes - makes all the difference. Of course, having The Book is a boon, as you will see. I've got to be out most of tomorrow, so the laptop may not get switched on till late, if at all. I'll have another session on Friday. (By-the-way, dinner was most enjoyable, thank you - even the one I tried to burn! It was kedgeree, one of my favourites, so I would have really disappointed to spoil it). Night night. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
#23
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
Spider wrote in :
Forgive me following my own post, Jake, but having looked at your pics again, I note that some of your trees are growing with grass close to the trunk. Trees, especially new trees, need a 3ft/1m circle of clear soil to prevent competition from grass and weeds. The grass mulch round some of your trees is good, but it shouldn't be making contact with the trunk, as this can cause rotting. thanks again. You really sem to know your stuff (despite saying you're not an expert)! I'm a bit concerned about Tree No2 - the one that god snapped off at half its height shortly after planting. That's the one that I need to grow tall the quickest and produce shade. After reading all you've said, I wish I hadn't done any Summer pruning becase you imply this will inhibit growth. I didn't know that prior to reading your advice. However what's done is done, and hopefully all will look satisfactory as it grows in the coming years. When I bough these saplings (from Asda) there was no indication what the rootstock was or what the final height would be. I suppose only time will tell. I was surprised how many times Tree No.2 tolerated being moved! I moved it twice before being happy with the exact position, and it carried on growing without batting an eyelid! JD |
#24
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 21:19, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth? Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I don't think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't know because we haven't been here for a long time. Otherwise, I'm wondering about a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your tree? Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents around! Could that account for the extra lower growth? Yes! It certainly could. Don't you put on extra growth (especially lower down!) if you devour a feast!? Well, that seems to account for it, then. Mystery solved. Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at the moment and I'm thinking out loud. Please do I am thrilled you are bothering) Thank you You're welcome. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
#25
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"JD" wrote in message ... Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! Spider should write a book! I would buy it -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#26
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... I'm very happy to help where I can and I'm really glad if it's helping you. I hate all the mystery and angst surrounding pruning. Once you know where to prune and especially *why* you're pruning, it all becomes very common-sensical. Alas, there are gaps in my knowledge, but I am trying to learn more. Having grown some of the trees/shrubs and gained experience of them - including making mistakes - makes all the difference. Of course, having The Book is a boon, as you will see. I've got to be out most of tomorrow, so the laptop may not get switched on till late, if at all. I'll have another session on Friday. (By-the-way, dinner was most enjoyable, thank you - even the one I tried to burn! It was kedgeree, one of my favourites, so I would have really disappointed to spoil it). g I am very pleased to hear it Night night. Enjoy your day off -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#27
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... On 27/08/2014 21:19, Ophelia wrote: "Spider" wrote in message ... Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth? Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I don't think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't know because we haven't been here for a long time. Otherwise, I'm wondering about a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your tree? Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents around! Could that account for the extra lower growth? Yes! It certainly could. Don't you put on extra growth (especially lower down!) if you devour a feast!? Well, that seems to account for it, then. Mystery solved. LOL true ) I am wondering if that should have affected the top growth too. Maybe is has and I haven't seen -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#28
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Ophelia" wrote in news:ltms4k$8ju$1@dont-
email.me: Spider should write a book! If you press her... Spider mite... boom-boom! ;-) If you're reading this, Spider, do you think I could switch my Tree No3 with Treem No.2? They have been in the ground less than six months. The shapes that I can see forming would be ideal for their locations if I switched their positions. Are apple trees of this age tolerant to being replanted? I'm guessing their root system will still be 'dig-uppable'. JD |
#29
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"JD" wrote in message ... "Ophelia" wrote in news:ltms4k$8ju$1@dont- email.me: Spider should write a book! If you press her... Spider mite... boom-boom! ;-) g If you're reading this, Spider, do you think I could switch my Tree No3 with Treem No.2? They have been in the ground less than six months. The shapes that I can see forming would be ideal for their locations if I switched their positions. Are apple trees of this age tolerant to being replanted? I'm guessing their root system will still be 'dig-uppable'. I think she said she won't be posting until tomorrow. I have some more pics for her to look at, but I will do them later She's good eh? -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
#30
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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 22:30, JD wrote:
Spider wrote in : Forgive me following my own post, Jake, but having looked at your pics again, I note that some of your trees are growing with grass close to the trunk. Trees, especially new trees, need a 3ft/1m circle of clear soil to prevent competition from grass and weeds. The grass mulch round some of your trees is good, but it shouldn't be making contact with the trunk, as this can cause rotting. thanks again. You really sem to know your stuff (despite saying you're not an expert)! Steady, Jake, I can't concentrate when I'm blushing! ) Thanks, though. I'm a bit concerned about Tree No2 - the one that god snapped off at half its height shortly after planting. That's the one that I need to grow tall the quickest and produce shade. Tree No2 really needs that second leader taking out. I suggest you remove the weaker leader growing to the right. This will allow the tree to concentrate its energy on the stronger remaining leader. Hopefully, now that it's in its final position, it will really put its anchors down and grow away. After reading all you've said, I wish I hadn't done any Summer pruning becase you imply this will inhibit growth. I didn't know that prior to reading your advice. However what's done is done, and hopefully all will look satisfactory as it grows in the coming years. Don't worry about the summer pruning too much. In fact, it is probably the guided tour of your garden that held it back most but, as you say, what's done is done. You really need to make sure that it doesn't want for water. If anything, water especially well outside the planting hole. This will oblige the roots to move out into the soil in search of water and nutrients. I'm sure you can see how this will encourage growth and help the tree anchor itself in the ground. I notice that only two of your trees have stakes. It would be wise with the winter coming to put in a short stake for the third tree. Shorter stakes are advised these days, as it allows the tree to move in the wind and strengthen itself. The stake should be inserted (away from the rootball) at approx 45 degrees and so that the prevailing wind pushes the stake into the ground, rather than pulling it out. Use a buffer between the tree and the stake so that there is no chafing when the tree moves in the wind. Chafing means damage: damage means disease. When I bough these saplings (from Asda) there was no indication what the rootstock was or what the final height would be. I suppose only time will tell. Yes, this is a problem. I even Googled Asda fruit trees in the vain hope that I would learn something, but nothing showing. Do you remember what the apple types were? Knowing this should help us learn whether they're spur or tip bearing. I was surprised how many times Tree No.2 tolerated being moved! I moved it twice before being happy with the exact position, and it carried on growing without batting an eyelid! JD Not wishing to be negative, but suspend your surprise for a while. Trees often *seem* to cope with immediate disruption or starving or flooding, but a year or three down the line start to show signs of stress .. or worse. This is why I emphasized watering and staking and general good care above. The chances are that, with due care and watering (even after a light shower), your tree will grow away well, but its not out of the woods yet. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
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