In article om,
Michelle Fulton writes

"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:577b71b978279dbf99536976d6026765@TeraNews. ..

Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house
proud people about.

Not anymore, because the mother is out working nowadays. She used to have
more time to clean, and did.

That is not self evident. Research in the UK has shown that women
nowadays spend very little less time cleaning than they used to, despite
so many more of them in paid work.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:0f59758214370daba9ce7ba88cf7e283@TeraNews...

Your choice, it really is.

But that's my point....sometimes people just don't have a choice other than
buying the cheapest food they can find.

Have you tried grow your own?

I'm making a little start with my herb garden. My soil, climate, lack of
time and dog won't allow for much more at the moment. I will expand
gradually. I really would love to move to the country and grow my own food,
but it's just not practical, or even possible.

You could also have a look at

http://www.safetyalerts.com/
http://www.foodsafety.gov/

For an insight into food safety throughout the world.

Very good. Thanks for the links :-)

Yeah I know, what I am getting at is the need to ask questions, find
out what's going on, why we do this and that. Be aware!

Good common sense.

But "you" are not the problem, it's all the other dirty buggers one
comes into contact with, what have they been up to?

ROTFL :-))) I just don't think about it.

There was a survey
done a while back on little snacks left out on the bar of the local
pub, you know nuts, crisps etc for a nibble, these were tested and all
sorts of filth was found on it, including faeces!!

I know it's gross, but I just don't worry about it.

Needless to say I never touch bar snacks any more.

LOL :-))

It's also a fact many people do not wash their hands after going to
the loo, fine for them, what about us when we shake their hands.. yuk.

That's my point. It's just gross in today's society, but it's just the
thought of it, not the usefulness of it that motivates most people to do it.

I don't know. Have you taken a look at the gross portions served up in
the USA, how big the world is getting? Are we eating more, or are we
being force fed?

People want more for their money. We (the US) are a gluttonous, lazy,
spoiled society, no doubt, but that's not because the government, as some
evil separate entity, is forcing it on us. We just are because it's human
nature to take the easy way out and take all one can get when the gettin's
good.

Absolutely, and our immune systems and future generations will suffer for
it.

No doubt about it.
It all comes down to the fact, if we can make a change for the better,
at little real cost to ourselves, why not the hell go for it?

So it seems, but you have just thwarted your own argument about how what you
do today will effect your future health. Sure, the chemicals we ingest with
our food may cause problems down the road, but compromising the immune
systems of our species is going to cause greater problems down the road, I
think.

M

On Thu, 15 May 2003 19:04:36 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:0f59758214370daba9ce7ba88cf7e283@TeraNews. ..

Your choice, it really is.

But that's my point....sometimes people just don't have a choice other than
buying the cheapest food they can find.

Have you tried grow your own?

I'm making a little start with my herb garden. My soil, climate, lack of
time and dog won't allow for much more at the moment. I will expand
gradually. I really would love to move to the country and grow my own food,
but it's just not practical, or even possible.

But you can watch what you eat. A little change here, a little change
there.

You could also have a look at

http://www.safetyalerts.com/
http://www.foodsafety.gov/

For an insight into food safety throughout the world.

Very good. Thanks for the links :-)

Yeah I know, what I am getting at is the need to ask questions, find
out what's going on, why we do this and that. Be aware!

Good common sense.

But "you" are not the problem, it's all the other dirty buggers one
comes into contact with, what have they been up to?

ROTFL :-))) I just don't think about it.

Haha but if it's happening, how can you not think about it?

There was a survey
done a while back on little snacks left out on the bar of the local
pub, you know nuts, crisps etc for a nibble, these were tested and all
sorts of filth was found on it, including faeces!!

I know it's gross, but I just don't worry about it.

You should.

Needless to say I never touch bar snacks any more.

LOL :-))

It's also a fact many people do not wash their hands after going to
the loo, fine for them, what about us when we shake their hands.. yuk.

That's my point. It's just gross in today's society, but it's just the
thought of it, not the usefulness of it that motivates most people to do it.

But knowing about the gross, ensures I wash my own hands regularly.

I don't know. Have you taken a look at the gross portions served up in
the USA, how big the world is getting? Are we eating more, or are we
being force fed?

People want more for their money. We (the US) are a gluttonous, lazy,
spoiled society, no doubt,

You're not alone.

but that's not because the government, as some
evil separate entity, is forcing it on us.

No, it the businesses that are doing it. Which is also OK, but we are
big and ugly enough to know when enough is enough and should act on
it.

We just are because it's human
nature to take the easy way out and take all one can get when the gettin's
good.

But we don't need to, it's damaging to ourselves, it's damaging to
global resources. Why grow/raise two of everything, when we only
really need one? Next time you feel like making a pig of yourself,
cast an eye to the famine zones of the world, think what they would do
for just a bowl of rice, let alone a 4lb steak with all the trimmings,
fit for five people but served only for one!

Absolutely, and our immune systems and future generations will suffer for
it.

No doubt about it.
It all comes down to the fact, if we can make a change for the better,
at little real cost to ourselves, why not the hell go for it?

So it seems, but you have just thwarted your own argument about how what you
do today will effect your future health. Sure, the chemicals we ingest with
our food may cause problems down the road, but compromising the immune
systems of our species is going to cause greater problems down the road, I
think.

Greater or lesser, they are still problems brought on by our own
neglect for ourselves.

Care about ourselves and then we can care about each other.


--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..

"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:21144e269cdfb81908fac84d5fbb45b7@TeraNews...

But you can watch what you eat. A little change here, a little change
there.

And I do. Every little bit....

No, it the businesses that are doing it. Which is also OK, but we are
big and ugly enough to know when enough is enough and should act on
it.

I think stupidity and lack of responsibility for the results of one's own
actions is growing right along with our waistlines.

But we don't need to, it's damaging to ourselves, it's damaging to
global resources. Why grow/raise two of everything, when we only
really need one? Next time you feel like making a pig of yourself,
cast an eye to the famine zones of the world, think what they would do
for just a bowl of rice, let alone a 4lb steak with all the trimmings,
fit for five people but served only for one!

I know, I know, but it's still just human nature (literally in our genes) to
indulge in times of plenty, in order to survive the lean times. Our times
of
plenty are just lasing too darn long these days so we are having to overcome
instinct, basically. It's hard to overcome, but I'm trying. Some days I
just say.....oh, what the heck, and eat that steak (not 4 pounds though) ;-)

M

On Thu, 15 May 2003 19:49:52 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:21144e269cdfb81908fac84d5fbb45b7@TeraNews. ..

But you can watch what you eat. A little change here, a little change
there.

And I do. Every little bit....

Well done. You might find some handy hints for home grown in the
gardening groups, such as uk.rec.gardening we're all friendly guys
despite what the trolls here would have you think :-)

No, it the businesses that are doing it. Which is also OK, but we are
big and ugly enough to know when enough is enough and should act on
it.

I think stupidity and lack of responsibility for the results of one's own
actions is growing right along with our waistlines.

Without doubt, you are 100% right, it's what the
manufacturers/producers want. It's how they got away with all this
junk food, factory farming etc in the first place. Some of us have
just woken up, and we are fighting back ;-)

But we don't need to, it's damaging to ourselves, it's damaging to
global resources. Why grow/raise two of everything, when we only
really need one? Next time you feel like making a pig of yourself,
cast an eye to the famine zones of the world, think what they would do
for just a bowl of rice, let alone a 4lb steak with all the trimmings,
fit for five people but served only for one!

I know, I know, but it's still just human nature (literally in our genes) to
indulge in times of plenty, in order to survive the lean times. Our times
of
plenty are just lasing too darn long these days so we are having to overcome
instinct, basically. It's hard to overcome, but I'm trying. Some days I
just say.....oh, what the heck, and eat that steak (not 4 pounds though) ;-)

Haha. I do sympathize with you, life is crap a lot of the time anyhow,
what the heck why not! OK, just start afresh tomorrow then, but don't
give in without a fight! lol


--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..

"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:904f8e7f517f75ca79d6e0fcc5d0c0a2@TeraNews...
You might find some handy hints for home grown in the
gardening groups, such as uk.rec.gardening we're all friendly guys
despite what the trolls here would have you think :-)

I did just subscribe to austin.gardening as their climate is most like mine
(they have to deal with the extreme heat also, which reaks havoc with most
garden plants), but I bet I could still get some good tips from the uk group
too. Thanks :-)

Without doubt, you are 100% right, it's what the
manufacturers/producers want. It's how they got away with all this
junk food, factory farming etc in the first place. Some of us have
just woken up, and we are fighting back ;-)

And we should, but it's the manufacturers and distributors we should be
fighting, I think, rather than the farmers.

OK, just start afresh tomorrow then, but don't
give in without a fight! lol

Ok :-)

M

On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:08:49 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:

I think it was the FSA who recently announced concerns about
lettuce and carrots again in the UK..

What is the FSA?

The UK Food Standards Agency
http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/

--
Peter Duncanson
UK

On Thu, 15 May 2003 20:17:56 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:904f8e7f517f75ca79d6e0fcc5d0c0a2@TeraNews. ..
You might find some handy hints for home grown in the
gardening groups, such as uk.rec.gardening we're all friendly guys
despite what the trolls here would have you think :-)

I did just subscribe to austin.gardening as their climate is most like mine
(they have to deal with the extreme heat also, which reaks havoc with most
garden plants), but I bet I could still get some good tips from the uk group
too. Thanks :-)

You can always pop in and let us peasants know how you are getting on.
What fruits can you grow?

Without doubt, you are 100% right, it's what the
manufacturers/producers want. It's how they got away with all this
junk food, factory farming etc in the first place. Some of us have
just woken up, and we are fighting back ;-)

And we should, but it's the manufacturers and distributors we should be
fighting, I think, rather than the farmers.

Yeah but it starts with the farmers. The ones I have met are brought
up on subsidies, and don't care less about the customer, quite content
to just lie there and die in misery, moaning about their lot!

Well, UK farmers anyhow. It obviously makes me unpopular with them, I
am only on one christmas card list, but what the heck, lifes to short
not to wind someone up! ;-)
Lifes too short to hold grudges, I'll talk to anyone.

Some of the farmers are doing well though, determined to adapt, change
with the times, meet new markets etc. They had one on the TV last
week, from Devon I think, who makes cheeses full time now, all in
house, from grass for the cows, to finished product for the shops, a
great little business. Many can change, but wont, they'll still sell
milk for a pittance and whine about it...Oh well.


--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..

"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:070b216513d55bcfdbc61125474739bc@TeraNews...

You can always pop in and let us peasants know how you are getting on.

I can't imagine anyone being interested :-/

What fruits can you grow?

I don't know. Peach trees seem to do ok, here, but the birds eat all the
peaches. The problem with our climate is the extremes. Lots of plants
can't tolerate the heat of summer and lots can't tolerate the harsh winter
we can have. I haven't planted any fruit bearing trees, as shade is what
I'm after currently. Pecan trees are very hardy and popular here. I'm not
a good one to ask, as I'm just getting into all of this, and don't know much
yet. Oh, I think melons grow well here, but that doesn't make sense, does
it? Seems like they would need more moisture than we get??? I think
melons, squash and such, that have big leaves to protect the fruit from the
sun, do ok.

I can say that I don't see any fruit crops around these parts. I see lots
of corn, grass or hay, and cotton being grown. If you don't have lots of
time to put into it and the ability to shield your plants from the harsh
environment, you just don't get much out of it.

Many can change, but wont, they'll still sell
milk for a pittance and whine about it...Oh well.

Someone has to sell just milk. They can't all turn it into cheese.

M

"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:bb8e9e644fe3d7daef876aa750530b09@TeraNews...
On Thu, 15 May 2003 14:56:43 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:8025373d81fb5abcf06b43737727c8c1@TeraNews. ..

How does drowning in water relate to "Experimentally induced
inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours." Or
do you just naturally take a contrary view, regardless how stupid?

Are you talking about inhaling the fumes or mist,

Fumes and mist. Loz was implying you would need to inhale so much you
would drown in it!

Clearly nonsense.

rather than partial
drowning in the liquid itself. It's hard to imagine someone accidentally
inhaling Roundup as a liquid?

Quite.

I've accidentally inhaled the mist, when
spraying weeds in my yard and it doesn't seem to have any effect.

Well if you are prepared to put yourself on the line, because it
"seems" OK, your choice. Let us know how you get on 10 years down the
line, with all these things that "appear" to be OK.

That's the trouble, many people are short sighted, they are unable to
connect what they do now, with what happens in the future to them.
Smoking a typical example.

Unlike
when I spray insecticide, which I do only once a year, or every other
year
if the insects aren't too many. I have to shower immediately afterwards
and
learned not to walk barefoot in the yard while doing it, as it made me
feel
sick just in the time it took to spray my little yard.

And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to
me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been
sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is
suffering, especially us.


Plants are full of insecticides but I suppose you eat them all the time.
Seems daft to me. FWIW when tested using the same mechanisms as for man-made
pesticides, 50% of the naturally evolved pesticides tested were found to
cause cancer including chemicals in brocolli, lettuce and coffee.

Either the tests are wrong, or plants are just as dangerous as the man-made
chemicals you complain about and are actually more dangerous than ones that
havent been shown to cause cancer.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups)

On Thu, 15 May 2003 20:56:03 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:070b216513d55bcfdbc61125474739bc@TeraNews. ..

You can always pop in and let us peasants know how you are getting on.

I can't imagine anyone being interested :-/

Of course we are, we all started somewhere. It's good to learn from
the experience of others.

What fruits can you grow?

I don't know. Peach trees seem to do ok, here, but the birds eat all the
peaches. The problem with our climate is the extremes. Lots of plants
can't tolerate the heat of summer and lots can't tolerate the harsh winter
we can have. I haven't planted any fruit bearing trees, as shade is what
I'm after currently. Pecan trees are very hardy and popular here. I'm not
a good one to ask, as I'm just getting into all of this, and don't know much
yet. Oh, I think melons grow well here, but that doesn't make sense, does
it? Seems like they would need more moisture than we get??? I think
melons, squash and such, that have big leaves to protect the fruit from the
sun, do ok.

Sounds great... Mind you, plenty of insects no doubt?

I can say that I don't see any fruit crops around these parts. I see lots
of corn, grass or hay, and cotton being grown. If you don't have lots of
time to put into it and the ability to shield your plants from the harsh
environment, you just don't get much out of it.

Well don't give up yet, there' ll be plenty who went before you, happy
to share their stories.

Many can change, but wont, they'll still sell
milk for a pittance and whine about it...Oh well.

Someone has to sell just milk.

Trouble is there are too many.

They can't all turn it into cheese.

Yoghurt?


--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..

On Thu, 15 May 2003 22:01:53 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:bb8e9e644fe3d7daef876aa750530b09@TeraNews. ..
On Thu, 15 May 2003 14:56:43 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:8025373d81fb5abcf06b43737727c8c1@TeraNews. ..

How does drowning in water relate to "Experimentally induced
inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours." Or
do you just naturally take a contrary view, regardless how stupid?

Are you talking about inhaling the fumes or mist,

Fumes and mist. Loz was implying you would need to inhale so much you
would drown in it!

Clearly nonsense.

rather than partial
drowning in the liquid itself. It's hard to imagine someone accidentally
inhaling Roundup as a liquid?

Quite.

I've accidentally inhaled the mist, when
spraying weeds in my yard and it doesn't seem to have any effect.

Well if you are prepared to put yourself on the line, because it
"seems" OK, your choice. Let us know how you get on 10 years down the
line, with all these things that "appear" to be OK.

That's the trouble, many people are short sighted, they are unable to
connect what they do now, with what happens in the future to them.
Smoking a typical example.

Unlike
when I spray insecticide, which I do only once a year, or every other
year
if the insects aren't too many. I have to shower immediately afterwards
and
learned not to walk barefoot in the yard while doing it, as it made me
feel
sick just in the time it took to spray my little yard.

And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to
me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been
sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is
suffering, especially us.


Plants are full of insecticides but I suppose you eat them all the time.
Seems daft to me. FWIW when tested using the same mechanisms as for man-made
pesticides, 50% of the naturally evolved pesticides tested were found to
cause cancer including chemicals in brocolli, lettuce and coffee.

Either the tests are wrong, or plants are just as dangerous as the man-made
chemicals you complain about and are actually more dangerous than ones that
havent been shown to cause cancer.

A plant is a plant, we cant do anything about it's substance, but we
can stop adding toxins to it.
--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..

"Michelle Fulton" wrote in message
gy.com...

"anton" wrote in message
...


Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes?
There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes.

LOL :-)) Where do I get Nike seeds?

OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia.



Columbia bad, British Columbia Good, can you see a trend

"Suzy Orr" wrote in message
...
Oh, how this posting...and some of your responses have made me laugh.
Interesting how fools can find "experts" to support them, no matter what
the
topic. I look at our 1000+ acres of corn and think that with just a
little
"hard work" we wouldn't have to use those "deadly" chemicals.
Interesting...those who talk about "hard work" have probably never gotten
out and really worked a day of their lives.

Many years ago, when Roundup was still new, we attended a workshop on how
to
use it for planting no-till. The gentleman who conducted the program, to
show us how safe it is, drank a glass of it. Within the last month, I
saw
that man...and he is still very healthy and vigorous. He was one of
no-till
plantings most active proponents, and my kids have always called him "No
Till Bill". The next time I see him, I will tell him that the "experts"
say he is really dead.

While I do not advocate drinking it....I do believe that it is not a
threat
to the environment or "US".


yes, we've all seen them do it.Reps in the UK did the same. Indeed it is
getting quite funny as a lot of the anti-GM environmental lobby are now
saying GM is bad because it will mean that weeds develop resistance to a
really safe herbicide like Roundup so much faster

I suppose you could gain honest amusement from watching the two wings of the
green movement contradicting each other

Jim Webster

suzy orr

On Thu, 15 May 2003 23:17:12 +0100, "Jim Webster"
wrote:


"Suzy Orr" wrote in message
...
Oh, how this posting...and some of your responses have made me laugh.
Interesting how fools can find "experts" to support them, no matter what
the
topic. I look at our 1000+ acres of corn and think that with just a
little
"hard work" we wouldn't have to use those "deadly" chemicals.
Interesting...those who talk about "hard work" have probably never gotten
out and really worked a day of their lives.

Many years ago, when Roundup was still new, we attended a workshop on how
to
use it for planting no-till. The gentleman who conducted the program, to
show us how safe it is, drank a glass of it. Within the last month, I
saw
that man...and he is still very healthy and vigorous. He was one of
no-till
plantings most active proponents, and my kids have always called him "No
Till Bill". The next time I see him, I will tell him that the "experts"
say he is really dead.

While I do not advocate drinking it....I do believe that it is not a
threat
to the environment or "US".


yes, we've all seen them do it.Reps in the UK did the same. Indeed it is
getting quite funny

Almost as funny as that Conservative wallah force feeding his kids
burgers during the BSE crisis, how funny is that now?

Lets hope your family doesn't live to regret your stupidity.


--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..