"ER" wrote in message
...
On 22 Nov 2003 12:30:24 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote:

Tobacco smokers used not to believe the rumour their habit could cause
lung and circulatory disease.

That is a rare case of an officially sanctioned item of propaganda
(which it was) turning out to be more-or-less correct. It was and
is overstated, of course, and is currently being used to divert
attention away from other causes of those problems.

And more attention could be given to the fact that stopping smoking leaves
you open
to other diseases:
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band39/b39-5.html

I was stunned when my consultant attributed my colitis to my recent quit.

Liz

Another point, cannabis doesn't have to be smoked to be ingested, nor chewed
like with tobacco.

In article ,
ER wrote:
On 22 Nov 2003 12:30:24 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote:

Tobacco smokers used not to believe the rumour their habit could cause
lung and circulatory disease.

That is a rare case of an officially sanctioned item of propaganda
(which it was) turning out to be more-or-less correct. It was and
is overstated, of course, and is currently being used to divert
attention away from other causes of those problems.

And more attention could be given to the fact that stopping smoking
leaves you open to other diseases:
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band39/b39-5.html

I was stunned when my consultant attributed my colitis to my recent quit.

Well, excluding the detail that colitis is not strictly a disease,
the same applies to pretty well any habit that has a sedative effect.
Nicotine is one of the more powerful legal substances, so its effects
are correspondingly larger than, say, cocoa.

While I agree that the information provided is so one-sided as to be
close to propaganda, there has been little doubt for at least three
decades that giving up cigarettes is almost always a good bet on the
health front. I believe that this is also true for cigars, but have
no idea whether it is so for pipes.

Certainly, when I was first on the receiving end of the propaganda,
back in the early 1960s, we were shown data that proved a very strong
association between cigarette smoking and lung cancer, were told it
was causal, were shown weak data for cigars and no association for
pipes, and were told that they were working on gathering evidence to
prove it for the latter two! Even then, as a schoolboy, I had enough
of a statistical bent to recognise non-science when I saw it.

But note that none of the above proves that the conclusions are wrong,
only that drawing them is unjustified, and in the case of cigarettes
(and smoking tobacco generally), the conclusions were more-or-less
correct.

Whether, THIS time, the anti-cannabis propaganda will turn out to be
correct, I don't know. I am not desperately interested, and so will
investigate only if I bump across some real data or get sufficiently
annoyed to waste time on it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Synaptic Flow" wrote in message
...

"ER" wrote in message
...
On 22 Nov 2003 12:30:24 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote:

Tobacco smokers used not to believe the rumour their habit could
cause
lung and circulatory disease.

That is a rare case of an officially sanctioned item of propaganda
(which it was) turning out to be more-or-less correct. It was and
is overstated, of course, and is currently being used to divert
attention away from other causes of those problems.

And more attention could be given to the fact that stopping smoking
leaves
you open
to other diseases:
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band39/b39-5.html

I was stunned when my consultant attributed my colitis to my recent
quit.

Liz

Another point, cannabis doesn't have to be smoked to be ingested, nor
chewed
like with tobacco.

Into which oorifice do you insert it then?

Franz

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:29:21 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


Another point, cannabis doesn't have to be smoked to be ingested, nor
chewed
like with tobacco.

Into which oorifice do you insert it then?

I like oor-ifice :-)

--
Martin

The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these words:


"Synaptic Flow" wrote in message
...

Another point, cannabis doesn't have to be smoked to be ingested, nor
chewed
like with tobacco.

Nicotine doesn't have to be obtained by smoking or chewing either; it
can pass through the skin into the bloodstream, like many other
substances.

Into which oorifice do you insert it then?

Mouth. As in home baked muffins.

Janet.

The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these
words:

Members of the Cape Town University Mountaineering Club used to drop in

Did you know Tony Jones, by any chance? (red haired geologist, dodgy
leg)

I cannot recall him I was there during the years 1941 to 1947, and climbed
actively during the years 1944 to 1947. Round about when would he have been
there?

He must have been born in the mid nineteen-thirties so would have
missed you. Introduced me to climbing in the 60's in Wales.

Janet

Synaptic Flow wrote:

Aaah, morning glory, now you're talking! Heavenly Blue and other varieties
processed with water & napthal correctly provides a wonderful stimulant
hallucinogenic, used by the Mexican Indians for divination purposes for
centuries



Yep, I've even put the "warning" in my auction description when I've
sold them.
It works on the same receptors that LSD does.

Jason

--
Check out my ebay auctions for Passifora caerulea and edulis seeds and
Morning Glory (Star of Yelta) seeds.
http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....sort=3&rows=50

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:


While I agree that the information provided is so one-sided as to be
close to propaganda, there has been little doubt for at least three
decades that giving up cigarettes is almost always a good bet on the
health front. I believe that this is also true for cigars, but have
no idea whether it is so for pipes.

It is. Pipe smokers are at higher risk of mouth cancers.

Janet,

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:42:56 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:


While I agree that the information provided is so one-sided as to be
close to propaganda, there has been little doubt for at least three
decades that giving up cigarettes is almost always a good bet on the
health front. I believe that this is also true for cigars, but have
no idea whether it is so for pipes.

It is. Pipe smokers are at higher risk of mouth cancers.

and clay pipe smokers even more so.
--
Martin

In article ,
martin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:42:56 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:
The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

While I agree that the information provided is so one-sided as to be
close to propaganda, there has been little doubt for at least three
decades that giving up cigarettes is almost always a good bet on the
health front. I believe that this is also true for cigars, but have
no idea whether it is so for pipes.

It is. Pipe smokers are at higher risk of mouth cancers.

and clay pipe smokers even more so.

Yes, that is so, and the latter has been known for a VERY long time.
But it wasn't my point.

The normal consequence of giving up cigarette smoking is a significant
improvement in health, even in the short term, and very much more so
in the long term. The same applies to life expectancy. It is a rare
person who suffers overall worse health from giving up and a VERY rare
person who will have a consequential reduced life expectancy. Even
colitis (non-ulcerative) is arguably better than the high chance of
developing emphysema or worse.

The question is whether the same is true for pipe smoking, and the
data were certainly pretty unclear when I last enquired (which was a
fair time back). It was clear that doing so had significant benefits,
but it wasn't possible to tell if (on average) whether there were
comparable disadvantages. The main reason being that there was not
enough data to tell, and the secondary one being that pipe smokers
tend to smoke less than cigarette smokers and so have less severe or
fewer problems.

The point here, of course, is that smoking is commonly used as a way
of reducing (psychological) stress, though it increases some other
forms of stress (e.g. on the cardiovascular system).

Given the very much reduced number of pipe smokers, we shall probably
never know the answer for certain. It doesn't unduly matter, as the
issue has been very minor compared with cigarette smoking for half a
century or more and pipe smoking is disappearing for social reasons
in most parts of the world.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 23 Nov 2003 17:39:50 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
martin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:42:56 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:
The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

While I agree that the information provided is so one-sided as to be
close to propaganda, there has been little doubt for at least three
decades that giving up cigarettes is almost always a good bet on the
health front. I believe that this is also true for cigars, but have
no idea whether it is so for pipes.

It is. Pipe smokers are at higher risk of mouth cancers.

and clay pipe smokers even more so.

Yes, that is so, and the latter has been known for a VERY long time.

There is very little posted here, that hasn't been known for a very
long time.
--
Martin

In article ,
martin wrote:

There is very little posted here, that hasn't been known for a very
long time.

That is true :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
martin wrote:

There is very little posted here, that hasn't been known for a very
long time.

That is true :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:29:21 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


Another point, cannabis doesn't have to be smoked to be ingested, nor
chewed
like with tobacco.

Into which oorifice do you insert it then?

I like oor-ifice :-)

I knew you would pick that one up.
I mentioned it especially for you.
Kan jy my verstaan as ek Afrikaans praat?

Franz

Franz

--
Martin

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 19:41:56 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:29:21 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


Another point, cannabis doesn't have to be smoked to be ingested, nor
chewed
like with tobacco.

Into which oorifice do you insert it then?

I like oor-ifice :-)


a bit of an Afrikaans Freudian slip :-)

I knew you would pick that one up.
I mentioned it especially for you.

ja! ja! :-)

Kan jy my verstaan as ek Afrikaans praat?

jazeker

Dutch with old fashioned spelling.
I bet Jenny can understand you too.

--
Martin