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#1
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Lawn on top of blackout
Hello,
Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to lay a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very long time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come back. I don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts from experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup and want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question (at long last you say); I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff to block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My plan for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black covering cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The idea being while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be able to dig down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a while. Will it work ? Can anyone help ? |
#2
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boing wrote:
Hello, Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to lay a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very long time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come back. I don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts from experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup and want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question (at long last you say); I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff to block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My plan for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black covering cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The idea being while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be able to dig down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a while. Will it work ? Can anyone help ? I really wouldn't bother. I'd say, ask yourself if you really want a 100% grass lawn. Then ask why. What's it for? Putting green? Bowls? Winning a competition? You mention none of these, so I assume you're a normal human being. Just mow it twice a week, and enjoy life. If a particular weed happens to get up your nose now and then, dig the blighter out when you happen to feel like it. The turf-on-landscape-fabric idea might work, but it will never produce a fully self-sustaining lawn, which is obviously what you want and need as you can't get the normal treatments to work. The problem will be, as you say, that it will need watering -- and feeding -- far too often, because the grass roots won't be able to get below the membrane in sufficient numbers. And it probably wouldn't drain well in bad weather. It'll upset the moles a bit, though! Mike. |
#3
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Thanks for the prompt reply Mike, I can understand what you are saying
but I couldn't keep to anything like twice a week for mowing. Thats one of the problems I have, by the time I see the weeds they have spread from the edge of the grass into my boarders. I'm thinking if I get the black stuff down, turf it and get a year without these buggers I can then assess it. I can always peel the turf up and take the black stuff away then re-lay the turf in a few hours. Just don't want the truf to die on me :-) |
#4
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boing wrote:
Thanks for the prompt reply Mike, I can understand what you are saying but I couldn't keep to anything like twice a week for mowing. Thats one of the problems I have, by the time I see the weeds they have spread from the edge of the grass into my boarders. I'm thinking if I get the black stuff down, turf it and get a year without these buggers I can then assess it. I can always peel the turf up and take the black stuff away then re-lay the turf in a few hours. Just don't want the truf to die on me :-) OK, so it's a time problem, not a horticultural one. Maybe pay somebody to come in and cut the grass every week? Mike. |
#5
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boing wrote:
Thanks for the prompt reply Mike, I can understand what you are saying but I couldn't keep to anything like twice a week for mowing. Thats one of the problems I have, by the time I see the weeds they have spread from the edge of the grass into my boarders. I'm thinking if I get the black stuff down, turf it and get a year without these buggers I can then assess it. I can always peel the turf up and take the black stuff away then re-lay the turf in a few hours. Just don't want the truf to die on me :-) It surely will die if you put black weed fabric underneath it. It really isn't that hard to take a bad lawn and make it good again. Use appropriate weed & feed at the right time of year, sow some grass seed in the obvious dead bits and a lawn can be as good as new in 6 weeks. Cutting once a week will do at a pinch to suppress weeds. If you want a decent lawn you have to work at it. You can't lay expensive turf and expect it to stay alive if you are too bone idle to look after it! These instant gratification effect buy & die garden makeover shows have a lot to answer for. Improve your garden - bury a Titchmarsh! Regards, Martin Brown |
#6
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Blimey bad day Martin ? or member of the Assumptions Soc.?
Grass seed ? I've done it and I've paid someone to do it who told me it was the only way to go. Thats was two lawns ago. Bone idle ? I expect you do your gardening in the dark then ?, I don't have to explain my self to you but for long times I am away working. Titchmarsh ? Yes I watched that last week from an hotel room at 3am in the morning. I'm sure the are people on here who are a bit more open minded then you. I don't wish to continue this with you as I'm sure you'll get on to imigration sooner of later. |
#7
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Done that last time, I got the idea from the bloke next door.
He layed is lawn on concrete 2 years ago and it's still looking fine. I think he might have put some topsoil on first but I can do that and set my sprinkler to come when needed. |
#8
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On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:43:12 +0000, boing wrote: Hello, Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to lay a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very long time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come back. I don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts from experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup and want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question (at long last you say); I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff to block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My plan for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black covering cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The idea being while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be able to dig down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a while. Will it work ? Can anyone help ? I hate to be boring, but your logic is not new and I've seen the results of similar logic actually put to the test the results of which have been a yellow lawn the following season, followed by a brown lawn then no lawn at all. Its just not going to work in the long term, true the blackout will kill any weeds underneath, and a good quality turf will probably be grown on a good quality loam which may sustain the lawn for a couple of seasons, but what about weed seeds that settle on top of your new lawn? Not all weeds are of a tap rooting nature and if tap rooting weeds set in your new lawn they will still survive and grow (they maybe easier to pull out of course, if you notice them). Its a misnomer that weed suppressing material (blackout) stops weeds growing. What it does is stop weeds establishing long enough for you to notice them and pull them out (which is easy because they can't root themselves, hence the name "weed suppressing". Weeds still grow in one of my boarders which is covered with blackout which is topped with bark chipping's, but at least they don't establish and are flicked out easily. I realise that your problem is not being able to mow the lawn regularly which, as far as I know is the only effective way of keeping a weed free lawn. I do sincerely wish I could give you a more positive answer, but in all honesty I can't. Regards Jeff. www.astrecks.co.uk If it works..............DON'T fix it No Virus Checker? try this free one from AVG it is very good:- http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_dwnl_free.php For a new experience in e-mail clients try:- http://www.pocomail.com/ Kill SPAM forever! Protect your family with Spamjab from:- http://www.spamjab.com/ |
#9
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On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:56:20 +0000, Janet Baraclough wrote: The message . com from "boing" contains these words: Will it work ? Not a hope. Weeds will grow, and self seed, in the depth of turf that's above the membrane. Janet Now why couldn't I just say that?, simple and concise :-) Jeff C "why use one word when two hundred will do?" |
#10
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In article . com, boing
writes Can anyone help ? As others have said, the quality of your lawn depends upon the attention you give to it. The idea of a 100 percent fine grass lawn is an illusion put about mostly by vendors of lawn care products, and is seldom achieved even by professional gardeners. If you keep the grass to a regular height, you will finish up with mostly grass plus a sprinkling of lawn tolerant wild flowers. Twice weekly mowing is only necessary in the peak growing times of spring and autumn, at other times once a week or less is enough. Our lawn contains some daisies, buttercups, clover, moss, self-heal and dead nettle, but not enough to prevent its use for family recreation and leisure. -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
#11
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"boing" wrote in message ups.com... Hello, Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to lay a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very long time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come back. I don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts from experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup and want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question (at long last you say); I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff to block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My plan for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black covering cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The idea being while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be able to dig down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a while. Will it work ? Can anyone help ? ================= Since you clearly haven't got the time to maintain a conventional lawn you might consider 'astro turf' instead of a real grass lawn. It's not ideal but it could provide a solution to your problem. It seems to work well provided that its limitations are understood. Cic. |
#12
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"Cicero" wrote in message . uk... "boing" wrote in message ups.com... Hello, Looking for some advice, for a few years now I have been trying to lay a decent lawn with little success. The area has been for a very long time home to all sorts of angry looking weeds and although I have cleared them and used all sorts of toxic stuff, they still come back. I don't need advice on how to get rid of them I've had all sorts from experts up and down the country in 3 years. Now I am just fedup and want to try something I've invented myself so here's the question (at long last you say); I'm not a gardner but I have used that black cloth covering stuff to block out weeds around my boarders and that seems to work well. My plan for the lawn is to dig it up (again) and lay some of the black covering cloth down. Then I plan to put the turf right on top. The idea being while the weeds can't get up the grass roots should be able to dig down. I'm sure I'm have to water it very well for a while. Will it work ? Can anyone help ? in a word no it wont you need at least a 4 inch root zone to allow the grass roots to survive not sure what experts you asked but a twice yearly application of a selective weedkiller followed by a spring weed and feed will get rid of 95% of weed. |
#13
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I don't know why so many people think I'm looking for a 100% perfect
lawn and perhaps I've got those other 5% weeds that just don't give up. I have ivy, nettles and a thick something or other that spreads along the ground covering everything it comes accross. I'll tell you how bad this is, I've dug the area up twice and used the strongest weed killer I could get my hands on, with proper application. I had to leave the area 6 months the box said. After two applications within a month the weeds where back up. Personally I think they are really growing this Australia and I just keep killing off the end of the roots this end. It's not so much the grass but the other plants that these effect. Once they get in the boarders it takes hours to pull them out because the get in everything. I've taken on the commenta and thanks ofr taking the time but I've really not heard anything to put me off trying this. No one has said they have seen it fail and I don't mind normal everyday weeds in the lawn. |
#14
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boing wrote:
I don't know why so many people think I'm looking for a 100% perfect lawn and perhaps I've got those other 5% weeds that just don't give up. I have ivy, nettles and a thick something or other that spreads along the ground covering everything it comes accross. [ ....] I've taken on the commenta and thanks ofr taking the time but I've really not heard anything to put me off trying this. No one has said they have seen it fail and I don't mind normal everyday weeds in the lawn. OK, so you haven't got time for the upkeep of a lawn: no problem. You don't want to pay somebody else to come in and cut once or twice a week: fair enough. Believe me (and others have said the same already), this means that, whatever you do to start a new lawn, it will rapidly end up looking exactly the same as the one you've got. You've _got_ to cut it regularly, or it _will_ go wild. (Weedkillers kill weeds; they don't kill weed seeds.) So are you positive that you actually _need_ a lawn? How big an area are we considering? You can have a lovely paved area with a pond in it, and assorted shrubs flowering all through the year, a few containers nicely placed. You can have Japanese stone garden. You could have a miniature woodland to stroll through in your rare moments of leisure. You could have an orchard. There are plenty of things you can do instead of a lawn, and they can all be much more attractive than the best boring lawn in the kingdom -- which you won't get anyhow. Why not say roughly where you are? One of us might be able to come and have a look at the problem if we're passing. I'm in Cheltenham. (Hint.) Mike. |
#15
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In article .com,
boing writes I don't know why so many people think I'm looking for a 100% perfect lawn and perhaps I've got those other 5% weeds that just don't give up. I have ivy, nettles and a thick something or other that spreads along the ground covering everything it comes accross. I'll tell you how bad this is, I've dug the area up twice and used the strongest weed killer I could get my hands on, with proper application. I had to leave the area 6 months the box said. After two applications within a month the weeds where back up. Personally I think they are really growing this Australia and I just keep killing off the end of the roots this end. It's not so much the grass but the other plants that these effect. Once they get in the boarders it takes hours to pull them out because the get in everything. I've taken on the commenta and thanks ofr taking the time but I've really not heard anything to put me off trying this. No one has said they have seen it fail and I don't mind normal everyday weeds in the lawn. Neither ivy nor stinging nettles will survive regular mowing, any more than two or three cuts in one season will see them off. Weed-killers will kill off most weed tops, but they leave all but the smaller weed root systems alive to re-grow. If you are prepared to accept a small amount of non-grass plants in you lawn, that can be achieved by a mostly weekly mowing with a little extra at peak growing times. Keep your lawn to a consistent height and it will do the rest of the work for you. -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
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