In a message dated 7/7/2004 2:25:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, April1201 writes:

I'd like to know the benefits of cutting the leaves in the summer. A couple
books I have recommend either taking the leaves off all together in late July
or cutting them in half or cutting two thirds of each leaf off. It's suppose
to encourage smaller leaves to develope, thus reducing your leaf size each
year. I've done that every year but last year and am deciding if I'll do it
this year.

Friend:

Leaf cutting can be used for several purposes:

1. To reduce leaf size, if necessary
2. To slow growth in leaf pruned branches and to encourage growth in others.
3. To produce new leaves and improve appearance

As a general rule, only leaf prune healthy, vigorous specimens.

Also, do not confuse leaf cutting with bud removals, such as that which is done with Japanese Maples to improve ramifications.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
hometown.aol.com/iasnob--The Home of Yamamori, Guardian Spirit of the Mountain

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I'd like to know the benefits of cutting the leaves in the
summer.

There are two:

1. Reducing leaf size (a goal only on a ready-to-show bonsai
since leaf size doesn't matter a whit to a tree in training, and
2. More importantly, as a means of improving the ramification
(twigginess) of the branches. This is why you would leaf prune a
tree in training.

A couple
books I have recommend either taking the leaves off all
together in late July
or cutting them in half or cutting two thirds of each leaf off.

Others' findings may differ, but I have never found any benefit
in partially snipping leaves.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

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Jim: My understanding of the benefit of only cutting part of the
leaf was simply to prevent damage to the axillary buds under the
petioles.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lewis

I'd like to know the benefits of cutting the leaves in the
summer.

There are two:

1. Reducing leaf size (a goal only on a ready-to-show bonsai
since leaf size doesn't matter a whit to a tree in training, and
2. More importantly, as a means of improving the ramification
(twigginess) of the branches. This is why you would leaf prune a
tree in training.

A couple books I have recommend either taking the leaves off all
together in late July or cutting them in half or cutting two
thirds of each leaf off.

Others' findings may differ, but I have never found any benefit
in partially snipping leaves.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL

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Alan:

I think it is important to remove almost all of the leaf petiole when
leaf cutting deciduous species. The base of the petiole is sometimes
left to avoid damaging the new bud which will develop in the leaf axil.
If the entire leaf is carelessly removed the small bud may be damaged,
so it is best to leave just a "little" of the leaf petiole.

Now, I have discovered that if one "cuts the leaf blade in half" to
avoid stressing the tree, or being lazy and not removing the entire
leaf blade will not be effective in the purpose of defoliation. What
happens is that the leaf will continue to grow, rather than shed and
encourage a new flush of growth.

Also, another purpose of defoliation is to intensify autumn coloring
and to enjoy the brilliant new spring growth color in summer. Right now
I have a bright red Japanese maple in full spring coloring which is a
sharp contrast to my many other green Japanese maples.

Good luck!

Bill

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Sure. That's why you don't PULL the leaves off and why you
always leave at least a stub of the petiole (leaf stem) on. But
the descriptions on partial leaf cutting that I recall were aimed
at doing less than full stripping (and at those broad-leafed
trees that [supposedly] didn't take to having all of their leaves
removed.)

Anyway, I've tried it on trees with very short petioles which
allegedly one shouldn't strip and have seen no benefit; neither
did the leaves fall off as new ones were produced -- because new
ones were NOT produced. I was stuck with a half-leaved tree for
the remainder of the growing season. I left from 1/2 to 1/3 of
the leaf on the branches; maybe I needed to just leave a tiny bit
of the leaf, but ever since I've just defoliated all deciduous,
broad-leafed trees, leaving a bit of petiole -- which ALL
broad-leaf leaves have.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

=========================
Jim: My understanding of the benefit of only cutting part of the
leaf was simply to prevent damage to the axillary buds under the
petioles.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lewis

I'd like to know the benefits of cutting the leaves in the
summer.

There are two:

1. Reducing leaf size (a goal only on a ready-to-show bonsai
since leaf size doesn't matter a whit to a tree in training, and
2. More importantly, as a means of improving the ramification
(twigginess) of the branches. This is why you would leaf prune a
tree in training.

A couple books I have recommend either taking the leaves off all
together in late July or cutting them in half or cutting two
thirds of each leaf off.

Others' findings may differ, but I have never found any benefit
in partially snipping leaves.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL

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***************
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http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

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In a message dated 7/8/2004 8:59:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

That's why you don't PULL the leaves off and why you
always leave at least a stub of the petiole (leaf stem) on.

Jim

I know you don't do tropicals, but the Ficus nerifilia is plucked, or just
pulled off. Works great, especially if you also clip the bud at the end of each
branch.
Of course, you do end up with a lot of goo on your hands.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

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In a message dated 7/8/2004 8:59:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

That's why you don't PULL the leaves off and why you
always leave at least a stub of the petiole (leaf stem) on.

Jim

I know you don't do tropicals, but the Ficus nerifilia is
plucked, or just
pulled off. Works great, especially if you also clip the bud at
the end of each
branch.
Of course, you do end up with a lot of goo on your hands.


Hmmm . . .

Since -- after BSF -- I DO do tropicals and since they both
happen to be F. nerifolia -- is this another procedure chalked up
to TRADITION or does it actually do better than leaving a bit of
leaf stalk on?

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Botanically
and physiologically suspicious

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My tree is not in a bonsai pot yet and it won't be until the year after next.
I still want to do a few things to it before I proclaim it "done" enough for a
pot. It will then be 14 years old. -Gosh I'm getting old...

After reading all the advice, I've decided to cut now instead of waiting till
the end of the month and leave the stem of each leaf on.

Last year was the only time I didn't cut the leaves off since the the tree
gained some maturity and I feel the leaves are a bit bigger this year, although
they are still small. I brought a full size leaf home from work yesterday to
compare and I was very pleased at the size difference.

In a message dated 7/8/2004 10:19:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

Since -- after BSF -- I DO do tropicals and since they both
happen to be F. nerifolia -- is this another procedure chalked up
to TRADITION or does it actually do better than leaving a bit of
leaf stalk on?

Well, it works. And usually there is some leaf stub when you pluck.
Think of it as a chicken that has white goo on the feathers.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Michael,

Would you please write in more detail about Japanese Maple bud removals. When it should be done? Is there a special technique?

Thank you,
Olga
Toronto, Canada

Michael Persiano wrote:
In a message dated 7/7/2004 2:25:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, April1201 writes:

I'd like to know the benefits of cutting the leaves in the summer. A couple
books I have recommend either taking the leaves off all together in late July
or cutting them in half or cutting two thirds of each leaf off. It's suppose
to encourage smaller leaves to develope, thus reducing your leaf size each
year. I've done that every year but last year and am deciding if I'll do it
this year.

Friend:

Leaf cutting can be used for several purposes:

1. To reduce leaf size, if necessary
2. To slow growth in leaf pruned branches and to encourage growth in others.
3. To produce new leaves and improve appearance

As a general rule, only leaf prune healthy, vigorous specimens.

Also, do not confuse leaf cutting with bud removals, such as that which is done with Japanese Maples to improve ramifications.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
hometown.aol.com/iasnob--The Home of Yamamori, Guardian Spirit of the Mountain

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

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I know that technically all broad-leafed trees have a petiole, but I had a
hard time finding it on my Zelkova. After carefully snipping a couple of
hundred leaves, I gave up and stripped the rest of the tree. This was last
year, and I don't see damage this year. However, I also did not notice
additional ramification or a significant reduction in leaf size last year or
this. Is there a secret to leaf pruning a Zeldova which has an almost
imperceptible petiole?
Wayne Greenleaf - New Orleans Z9

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Jim Lewis
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:59 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Leaf cutting

Sure. That's why you don't PULL the leaves off and why you
always leave at least a stub of the petiole (leaf stem) on.

[SNIP]

maybe I needed to just leave a tiny bit
of the leaf, but ever since I've just defoliated all deciduous,
broad-leafed trees, leaving a bit of petiole -- which ALL
broad-leaf leaves have.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
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I know that technically all broad-leafed trees have a petiole,
but I had a
hard time finding it on my Zelkova. After carefully snipping a
couple of
hundred leaves, I gave up and stripped the rest of the tree.
This was last
year, and I don't see damage this year. However, I also did not
notice
additional ramification or a significant reduction in leaf size
last year or
this. Is there a secret to leaf pruning a Zeldova which has an
almost
imperceptible petiole?
==========

Care. Patience. Perseverance. Something good to listen to on
the stereo.*

I stripped a hornbeam today and they are almost sans petiole,
too. It took about 4 hours.

*For me it was "Cosi Fan Tutte."

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Other resons for leaf cutting:

Aesthetic: Prefer bare branch to burned up leaves due to TX heat.

Bud promotion: Additional light and air to stimulate future budding on
branches.

Balance of vigour: To promote vigor and growth in desired areas, allow other
areas to "rest". Reduce leaf sizes to do the same, similar to needle plucking
with pines...

Dormancy: Overall rest/decrease transpiration burden during hottest part of
summer in anticipation of fall growth spurt.

I've observed the same budding, or lack thereof, with partial leaf cutting.
Perhaps one reason is that there is less risk of a branch up and dying with
greater leaf matter and just maybe it'll pop somewhere other than the tip!

On developed trees I carefully snip, leaving the petiole. Trees in development
often get the two-finger strip treatment.

Jim Stone
TX

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From Jim S:

Other resons for leaf cutting:

snip

Balance of vigour: To promote vigor and growth in desired
areas, allow other
areas to "rest". Reduce leaf sizes to do the same, similar to
needle plucking
with pines...

I have _never_ noticed any benefit from this, though I've tried
it several times. Rather than pushing energy into areas that
seemed to need it, the tree puts it energy into makeing new
leaves when I stripped. So maybe I should strip the WEAK areas.
g


Dormancy: Overall rest/decrease transpiration burden during
hottest part of
summer in anticipation of fall growth spurt.

Very good point for those of us where summers are truly hot --
not like those folks "up nawth" who complain of the heat at upper
80s.


I've observed the same budding, or lack thereof, with partial
leaf cutting.
Perhaps one reason is that there is less risk of a branch up
and dying with
greater leaf matter and just maybe it'll pop somewhere other
than the tip!

No. My trees ignore partial leaf cutting. Life goes on as
usual.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I'd like to know the benefits of cutting the leaves in the
summer.

There are two:

1. Reducing leaf size (a goal only on a ready-to-show bonsai
since leaf size doesn't matter a whit to a tree in training, and
2. More importantly, as a means of improving the ramification
(twigginess) of the branches. This is why you would leaf prune a
tree in training.

A couple
books I have recommend either taking the leaves off all
together in late July
or cutting them in half or cutting two thirds of each leaf off.

Others' findings may differ, but I have never found any benefit
in partially snipping leaves.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++