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#16
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
David: OK, I suspected the quote might be inexact. The problem
is that there is a big difference between recommending a tree or plant for indoor growing and a need to be grown indoors. When we think about it, as common sense will tell us, there is no such thing as a truly "indoor" plant. Growing plants indoors is man's invention. All plants have originated and grown outdoors. The problem is that we want to grow plants which are not indigenous to our area. That includes tropical plants, such as your Fukian Tea tree. Survival in unnatural climates, such as tropicals in temperate areas or any plant indoors, requires more than basic horticultural skills as a rule. Some people cannot grow things outdoors, because they have no access to any outdoor area at all or else the outdoor area they do have is not secure enough to grow. Those people will just have to commit to learn the advanced horticultural skills needed to make the best of their situation. Fortunately, that isn't all that hard to do. I'm not going to try to discuss all the horticultural variables involved in indoor growing. So, the bottom line is that your Fukian Tea will do better outdoors when it is sufficiently warm in your growing area. If you are in the northern hemisphere below the Arctic Circle, you can grow it outdoors now, and it will be better for your tree, because it will have better light, humidity and air circulation than you can provide indoors. Further, the idea that your Fukian Tea should not be exposed to drafts is exactly backwards. It needs good air circulation to reduce risk of fungus and other pest problems. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: David Soukal Hello, we were consulting several sources on the internet. Also the book Simon & Schuster's Guide to Bonsain, recommends the tree for indoors. They don't explicitely mention the draft, only temperature changes. Do you think, we should keep the tree outside? David (Alan Walker) wrote in message news:000c01c47270$2894a3b0$6101a8c0@Alan... David: To which book are you referring? Who is the author? Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#18
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the
fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except for the Internet, of course) is local Wal-Mart David (Billy M. Rhodes) wrote in message ... In a message dated 7/25/2004 1:28:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes: A fluorescent light right overhead for a LONG day is about right, according to the indoor growers on the list But, the light bulb needs to be new and at six inches or less from the plant. Billy on the Florida Space Coast BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope, PA, and Ben Oki of California. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#19
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
ps. I have another question, if I may. I'd like to buy a bonsai for my
wife as a birthday present. As I mentioned, there's no bonsai nursery in the neighborhood (New York upstate). Do you have any experience with on-line shopping? I was told, in the garden shopmy wife bought the Fukien tree, that on-line shopping won't hurt the plant. But you don't have much control over the plant selection of course. I would appreciete any suggestion as to what shops are good and what aren't. For example, I've read somewhere that BonsaiBoys.com isn't the right place. But what is? Thank you! (Jim Lewis) wrote in message news:004e01c47268$0dd5d7e0$bb102cc7@pavilion... Hello, we haven't repotted the tree yet. But we do keep it indoors. This is our first bonsai and the book we bought said that it should be kept inside, since it is, supposedly, sensitive to draft. Also, we don't have garden, since we live in an appartment... We could buy some extra light and / or open the windows more. At least give it as MUCH light as you can. A fluorescent light right overhead for a LONG day is about right, according to the indoor growers on the list. Beyond that, I don't know diddly about growing inside the house. Another thing I forgot to mention is that we removed about a half inch of the soil from the top and replaced it with another one. The reason why we did that was that the soil was full of rotting leaves and flowers... Only later, we found out that the soil we purchased doesn't probably have the right composition. It was about 70% of fired clay and only about 25% of pine soil. That sounds almost EXACTLY the right mix for bonsai. What kind of soil was underneath? Bonsai soil wants to be large particles and relatively small amount of organic material. This is a good time to repot most tropicals (but let a fukien tea expert advise you on whether it is right for one of these, please. I'm NOT the one whose advice you want to take for trpicals.). I noticed that this layer probably prevents the rest of the soil from breathing so it's possible the we kept that plant overwatered for a several hours.. Could that be the reason? Nah. It would take more than "several hours" of wet feet to cause a problem. Some trees just complain when fiddled with. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests are like genealogists: We know our roots! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#20
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:56:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes: Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except for the Internet, of course) is local Walmart Buy a common four foot shop light, the one I have came with two chains to allow it to be hung. I made a simple stand with crossed 1 x 2's at each end connected by another 1 x 2. The chains were hung from where the 1 x 2's crossed. I guess you could use PVC instead. At one time I read to use one cool white bulb and one warm white bulb, but I would just buy two good bulbs and replace them every six weeks or so. Although the bulbs continue to look OK to use they quickly lose some of the light spectrum. Billy on the Florida Space Coast BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope, PA, and Ben Oki of California. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#21
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:56:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes: So far, we are using my wife's magnifying glass which has light bulb on it and can be bend to almost any position This probably generates too much heat if placed close enough to be effective. I don't remember the exact formula but light intensity falls off by the square of the distance? A light at 2 inches might have an intensity of x, but at 4 inches it isn't 1/2x but 1/4x and so on. Billy on the Florida Space Coast BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope, PA, and Ben Oki of California. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#22
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
David Soukal wrote:
Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except for the Internet, of course) is local Wal-Mart Ordinary 4 foot shoplights work fine. Use cool white tubes, and hang the fixture just a few (6 - 8) inches above the foliage. Leave it on for 16 - 18 hours per day. A timer makes this easier. Avoid incandescent (light bulb) fixtures - they are too hot. As Alan has already said, your tree will be better off outside as long as it is warm enough. I don't grow Fukien Tea, but I bring my tropicals indoors if the night time temperature is expected to drop below 50° F. Jay Zone 6, Michigan ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#23
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
If you live in upstate NY, then I recommend that you try to visit
Bill Valavanis' International Bonsai Arboretum in Rochester suburb, West Henrietta. You can get directions and other information at his web site: http://www.internationalbonsai.com/index.html Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: David Soukal ps. I have another question, if I may. I'd like to buy a bonsai for my wife as a birthday present. As I mentioned, there's no bonsai nursery in the neighborhood (New York upstate). Do you have any experience with on-line shopping? I was told, in the garden shopmy wife bought the Fukien tree, that on-line shopping won't hurt the plant. But you don't have much control over the plant selection of course. I would appreciete any suggestion as to what shops are good and what aren't. For example, I've read somewhere that BonsaiBoys.com isn't the right place. But what is? Thank you! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#24
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
David: OK, I suspected the quote might be inexact. The problem
is that there is a big difference between recommending a tree or plant for indoor growing and a need to be grown indoors. When we think about it, as common sense will tell us, there is no such thing as a truly "indoor" plant. Growing plants indoors is man's invention. All plants have originated and grown outdoors. The problem is that we want to grow plants which are not indigenous to our area. That includes tropical plants, such as your Fukian Tea tree. Survival in unnatural climates, such as tropicals in temperate areas or any plant indoors, requires more than basic horticultural skills as a rule. Some people cannot grow things outdoors, because they have no access to any outdoor area at all or else the outdoor area they do have is not secure enough to grow. Those people will just have to commit to learn the advanced horticultural skills needed to make the best of their situation. Fortunately, that isn't all that hard to do. I'm not going to try to discuss all the horticultural variables involved in indoor growing. So, the bottom line is that your Fukian Tea will do better outdoors when it is sufficiently warm in your growing area. If you are in the northern hemisphere below the Arctic Circle, you can grow it outdoors now, and it will be better for your tree, because it will have better light, humidity and air circulation than you can provide indoors. Further, the idea that your Fukian Tea should not be exposed to drafts is exactly backwards. It needs good air circulation to reduce risk of fungus and other pest problems. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: David Soukal Hello, we were consulting several sources on the internet. Also the book Simon & Schuster's Guide to Bonsain, recommends the tree for indoors. They don't explicitely mention the draft, only temperature changes. Do you think, we should keep the tree outside? David (Alan Walker) wrote in message news:000c01c47270$2894a3b0$6101a8c0@Alan... David: To which book are you referring? Who is the author? Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#25
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:56:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes: Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except for the Internet, of course) is local Walmart Buy a common four foot shop light, the one I have came with two chains to allow it to be hung. I made a simple stand with crossed 1 x 2's at each end connected by another 1 x 2. The chains were hung from where the 1 x 2's crossed. I guess you could use PVC instead. At one time I read to use one cool white bulb and one warm white bulb, but I would just buy two good bulbs and replace them every six weeks or so. Although the bulbs continue to look OK to use they quickly lose some of the light spectrum. Billy on the Florida Space Coast BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope, PA, and Ben Oki of California. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#26
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:56:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes: So far, we are using my wife's magnifying glass which has light bulb on it and can be bend to almost any position This probably generates too much heat if placed close enough to be effective. I don't remember the exact formula but light intensity falls off by the square of the distance? A light at 2 inches might have an intensity of x, but at 4 inches it isn't 1/2x but 1/4x and so on. Billy on the Florida Space Coast BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope, PA, and Ben Oki of California. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#27
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
In a message dated 7/25/2004 9:26:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes: I have another question, if I may. I'd like to buy a bonsai for my wife as a birthday present. Our suggestion, buy her a book on Bonsai instead, you can usually find a fair selection of books at Barne's and Noble, etc. Our buy a pot and maybe soil online, and then buy a plant at the local nursery or Wal Mart. I have nice dwarf Bougainvillea called Pink Pixie that I bought for $8 at Lowes. Then put the three together using the book. Billy on the Florida Space Coast BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope, PA, and Ben Oki of California. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#28
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
Regarding the soil. We bought it in nearby garden shop as
bonsai soil. The truth is it does not look like the rest of the soil in the pot. It does resemble (on touch, look) the layer that was there before, that is the clay pieces... As I wrote elsewhere in this thread, we draw our information on the book "Simon & Schuster's Guide to Bonsai". Their ideal mixture for *repotting* is 60% humus-rich soil, 10% peat and 30% of coarse sand. Since we removed about an inch of the top layer, we thought we'd replace it by the mixture above but its composition is quite different. I'm getting a bit confused here... Oh, aaargh! ONE of the problem with bonsai books is that they're written everywhere and translated into everything, and that does lead to confusion. S&SGtB was written in Italy and later translated into English -- possibly by someone who has never grown (or maybe even seen) a bonsai. Heaven only knows what the original text said, but the translator gave you 70% humus -- which isn't a very good idea, since humus is rotting leaves, worm casing, etc. -- ORGANIC -- stuff, which rots and gets mushier and mushier. The peat also is organic and comes in MANY forms (most of them not suited for bonsai soil in any great amount) and "coarse" sand varies according to one's definition of "coarse" (of course). I have the book, but haven't paid attention to the soil bit since I got it well after I'd killed my share of trees for this or that stupid reason. So. Your tree should be planted in the soil you bought as "bonsai soil," assuming it is at least 50 percent baked clay and 30 percent pine bark and 20 percent coarse sand (or, 70-30 clay-sand or clay-bark) with NO mushy humus. I don't remember where you live, but there are bonsai clubs in surprising locations. Goto www.absbonsai.org or to www.bonsai-bci.com and find their pages that list clubs in N. America. There's probably one near you. Failing that, send Carl Rosner an e-mail (he answered one of your earlier questions and have him walk you though the art of transplanting a Fukien tea into good bonsai soil. Or, seeing as how that garden shop handles something called bonsai soil maybe that's an indication somewhere there knows something about bonsai????????????? Go also to www.internebonsaiclub.org, click on the "knowledge base" and read some of the articles there -- especially the one about soils. As far as news readers go, I don't do newsgroups too often (I read these messages via the linked e-mail list) but do a google search for free and newsgroups and see what pops up. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#29
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
David Soukal wrote:
Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except for the Internet, of course) is local Wal-Mart Ordinary 4 foot shoplights work fine. Use cool white tubes, and hang the fixture just a few (6 - 8) inches above the foliage. Leave it on for 16 - 18 hours per day. A timer makes this easier. Avoid incandescent (light bulb) fixtures - they are too hot. As Alan has already said, your tree will be better off outside as long as it is warm enough. I don't grow Fukien Tea, but I bring my tropicals indoors if the night time temperature is expected to drop below 50° F. Jay Zone 6, Michigan ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#30
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[IBC] sudden increase of leaf loss of our fukien tree
If you live in upstate NY, then I recommend that you try to visit
Bill Valavanis' International Bonsai Arboretum in Rochester suburb, West Henrietta. You can get directions and other information at his web site: http://www.internationalbonsai.com/index.html Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: David Soukal ps. I have another question, if I may. I'd like to buy a bonsai for my wife as a birthday present. As I mentioned, there's no bonsai nursery in the neighborhood (New York upstate). Do you have any experience with on-line shopping? I was told, in the garden shopmy wife bought the Fukien tree, that on-line shopping won't hurt the plant. But you don't have much control over the plant selection of course. I would appreciete any suggestion as to what shops are good and what aren't. For example, I've read somewhere that BonsaiBoys.com isn't the right place. But what is? Thank you! ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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