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Heirloom Apples
If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones that
taste unbelievably good) you have to check out: http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm gonna need more land. Steve |
#2
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Heirloom Apples
Steve Peek wrote:
If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones that taste unbelievably good) you have to check out: http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm gonna need more land. Steve Steve, I checked out their web site and they offer four rootstocks of various sizes. What was not clear was the possibility of selecting a particular rootstock with a given variety. There must be a way to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. These people appear to be strictly organic, which is fine whenever possible. However, certain pests like Plum Curculio, Apple Maggot, and Coddling Moths probably will require something stronger than Rotenone, say Imidan. Sherwin |
#3
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Heirloom Apples
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message ... Steve Peek wrote: If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones that taste unbelievably good) you have to check out: http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm gonna need more land. Steve Steve, I checked out their web site and they offer four rootstocks of various sizes. What was not clear was the possibility of selecting a particular rootstock with a given variety. There must be a way to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. They do offer the option of selecting rootstocks. These people appear to be strictly organic, which is fine whenever possible. However, certain pests like Plum Curculio, Apple Maggot, and Coddling Moths probably will require something stronger than Rotenone, say Imidan. Sherwin Some of us do make organic gardening work quite well thank you. |
#4
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Heirloom Apples
I
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message ... They do offer the option of selecting rootstocks. These people appear to be strictly organic, which is fine whenever possible. However, certain pests like Plum Curculio, Apple Maggot, and Coddling Moths probably will require something stronger than Rotenone, say Imidan. Sherwin Guess most folks know about Rotenone and Parkinson¹s ? Bill 1: Neurobiol Dis. 2009 May;34(2):279-90. Links A highly reproducible rotenone model of Parkinson's disease. Cannon JR, Tapias V, Na HM, Honick AS, Drolet RE, Greenamyre JT. Pittsburgh Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases, Department of Neurology, University of Pittsburgh, PA 15260, USA. The systemic rotenone model of Parkinson's disease (PD) accurately replicates many aspects of the pathology of human PD and has provided insights into the pathogenesis of PD. The major limitation of the rotenone model has been its variability, both in terms of the percentage of animals that develop a clear-cut nigrostriatal lesion and the extent of that lesion. The goal here was to develop an improved and highly reproducible rotenone model of PD. In these studies, male Lewis rats in three age groups (3, 7 or 12-14 months) were administered rotenone (2.75 or 3.0 mg/kg/day) in a specialized vehicle by daily intraperitoneal injection. All rotenone-treated animals developed bradykinesia, postural instability, and/or rigidity, which were reversed by apomorphine, consistent with a lesion of the nigrostriatal dopamine system. Animals were sacrificed when the PD phenotype became debilitating. Rotenone treatment caused a 45% loss of tyrosine hydroxylase-positive substantia nigra neurons and a commensurate loss of striatal dopamine. Additionally, in rotenone-treated animals, alpha-synuclein and poly-ubiquitin positive aggregates were observed in dopamine neurons of the substantia nigra. In summary, this version of the rotenone model is highly reproducible and may provide an excellent tool to test new neuroprotective strategies. PMID: 19385059 [PubMed - in process] Related articles Subcutaneous rotenone exposure causes highly selective dopaminergic degeneration and alpha-synuclein aggregation. Exp Neurol. 2003 Jan; 179(1):9-16. [Exp Neurol. 2003] Melatonin reduces the neuronal loss, downregulation of dopamine transporter, and upregulation of D2 receptor in rotenone-induced parkinsonian rats. J Pineal Res. 2008 Mar; 44(2):205-13. [J Pineal Res. 2008] Neurodegeneration of mouse nigrostriatal dopaminergic system induced by repeated oral administration of rotenone is prevented by 4-phenylbutyrate, a chemical chaperone. J Neurochem. 2007 Jun; 101(6):1491-1504. [J Neurochem. 2007] Review The rotenone model of parkinsonism--the five years inspection. J Neural Transm Suppl. 2006; (70):269-72. [J Neural Transm Suppl. 2006] Review Controversies on new animal models of Parkinson's disease pro and con: the rotenone model of Parkinson's disease (PD). J Neural Transm Suppl. 2006; (70):273-6. [J Neural Transm Suppl. 2006] » See reviews... | » See all... Patient Drug Information Apomorphine (Apokyn® ) Apomorphine is used to treat ''off'' episodes (times of difficulty moving, walking, and speaking that may happen as medication wears off or at random) in patients with Parkinson's disease (PD; a disorder of the nervous s... Source: AHFS Consumer Medication Information Recent Activity -- Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA Not all who wander are lost. - J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973) |
#5
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Heirloom Apples
In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote: Steve Peek wrote: If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones that taste unbelievably good) you have to check out: http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm gonna need more land. Steve Steve, I checked out their web site and they offer four rootstocks of various sizes. What was not clear was the possibility of selecting a particular rootstock with a given variety. There must be a way to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. These people appear to be strictly organic, which is fine whenever possible. However, certain pests like Plum Curculio, Apple Maggot, and Coddling Moths probably will require something stronger than Rotenone, say Imidan. Sherwin Shelly and Sherwin-doo, back together again. I thought life was too sweet. Never figured out IPM? Still spraying poisons around to pollute the environment? Imidan 70-W Active Ingredient: Phosmet (70.0%) Chemical Class: Organophosphorous Pesticide ( nerve gas. It may not be toxic to you but their may be pregnancies or small children in your area.)) ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION Summary of Effects Phosmet This pesticide is toxic to fish and wildlife. For terrestrial uses, do not apply directly to water, to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Do not contaminate water by cleaning of equipment or disposal of wastes. Drift and runoff from treated areas may be hazardous to aquatic organisms in adjacent aquatic sites. This product is toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment. Do not apply this product while bees are actively visiting the treatment area. http://www.gowanco.com/ProductInfo~p...an%2070-W.aspx Anyone with apples, may want to look at: Pests of the Garden and Small Farm: A Grower's Guide to Using Less Pesticide, Second edition by Mary Louise Flint http://www.amazon.com/Pests-Garden-S...0520218108/ref =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241540176&sr=1-1 although it is primarily for orchards in California, or browse the IPM books at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?...pbooks&field-k eywords=Integrated+Pest+Management+for+Apples&x=12 &y=20 and then see if they aren't available from the library. For coddling moth see http://www.gardensalive.com/article....&sid=143411&gc lid=COe1qI_WpZoCFShRagod9RpU9g&bhcd2=1241543555 For Apple Maggot see http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/tree006/tree006.htm Sure, insecticides may be more thorough in eradicating the pest but it poisons the environment, kills off pollinators, kills off fish which may surpress mosquitos, and is a threat to human embryos, and small children. IPM may not eradicate garden and orchard pests, it will make them more manageable, preserve the environment, and give you and your's food free from unnatural chemicals, about which we are still trying to figure out the consequences of our living with them. If you find that insecticides are the only way you have of growing a given crop, you may want to re-think, if that crop is that important to you and the planet. Good going doo. Sorry to see you back. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
#6
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Heirloom Apples
Billy wrote:
In article , sherwin dubren wrote: Steve Peek wrote: If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones that taste unbelievably good) you have to check out: http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm gonna need more land. Steve Steve, I checked out their web site and they offer four rootstocks of various sizes. What was not clear was the possibility of selecting a particular rootstock with a given variety. There must be a way to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. These people appear to be strictly organic, which is fine whenever possible. However, certain pests like Plum Curculio, Apple Maggot, and Coddling Moths probably will require something stronger than Rotenone, say Imidan. Sherwin Shelly and Sherwin-doo, back together again. I thought life was too sweet. Never figured out IPM? Still spraying poisons around to pollute the environment? Well Billygoat, You are obviously not competent to use these chemicals and should stay away from them for your own health's sake. Hope you enjoy all those apples with the worms inside. Sherwin |
#7
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Heirloom Apples
Billygoat,
By the way, you are probably putting out more pollutants from your automobiles than our occasional spraying. I suggest you lock them in your garage before you kill us all. Sherwin |
#8
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Heirloom Apples
In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote: Billygoat, By the way, you are probably putting out more pollutants from your automobiles than our occasional spraying. I suggest you lock them in your garage before you kill us all. Sherwin Doo head, all I'm asking is that when you recommend a chemical that you list the downside of that chemical. The is no probably in extremely toxic to birds and fish. But you are the doo man, and you doo, that doo-doo, that you doo so well. Aw, you went and made me Gruff again. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
#9
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Heirloom Apples
Billy wrote:
In article , sherwin dubren wrote: Billygoat, By the way, you are probably putting out more pollutants from your automobiles than our occasional spraying. I suggest you lock them in your garage before you kill us all. Sherwin Doo head, all I'm asking is that when you recommend a chemical that you list the downside of that chemical. The is no probably in extremely toxic to birds and fish. But you are the doo man, and you doo, that doo-doo, that you doo so well. Aw, you went and made me Gruff again. I suggest you see a neurologist to treat your 'do do' problem. Also, what do you want me to say? Sure, drinking these chemicals is not recommended. Wearing protective breathing and clothing is. Also, if you dump your excess chemicals in a water run off, or some lake it would do damage. Proper handling and disposal is the order of the day. If you are addressing your concerns to the backyard orchardist who probably has about a dozen or so trees, I see no great effect on the environment. Are you aware that many of these chemicals break down and are burn't off in the sun? Imidan is one of them. Sevin, on the other hand, lingers on for some time, so I don't use it. One jet plane taking off probably spews more polution to the environment than dozens, if not hundreds of hobby orchardists. If you want to go after the commercial orchards, most of them take proper precautions. Since their use of chemicals is on a much larger scale, their effect could be significant, if the chemicals are not handled and disposed of properly. You have to get the public and backyard orchardists to give up clean unattacked fruit. I know certain varieties can be grown organically, but they usually are not the best tasting ones. Sherwin |
#10
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Heirloom Apples
In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote: Billy wrote: In article , sherwin dubren wrote: Billygoat, By the way, you are probably putting out more pollutants from your automobiles than our occasional spraying. I suggest you lock them in your garage before you kill us all. Sherwin Doo head, all I'm asking is that when you recommend a chemical that you list the downside of that chemical. The is no probably in extremely toxic to birds and fish. But you are the doo man, and you doo, that doo-doo, that you doo so well. Aw, you went and made me Gruff again. I suggest you see a neurologist to treat your 'do do' problem. Also, what do you want me to say? Sure, drinking these chemicals is not recommended. Wearing protective breathing and clothing is. Also, if you dump your excess chemicals in a water run off, or some lake it would do damage. Proper handling and disposal is the order of the day. If you are addressing your concerns to the backyard orchardist who probably has about a dozen or so trees, I see no great effect on the environment. Are you aware that many of these chemicals break down and are burn't off in the sun? Imidan is one of them. Sevin, on the other hand, lingers on for some time, so I don't use it. One jet plane taking off probably spews more polution to the environment than dozens, if not hundreds of hobby orchardists. If you want to go after the commercial orchards, most of them take proper precautions. Since their use of chemicals is on a much larger scale, their effect could be significant, if the chemicals are not handled and disposed of properly. You have to get the public and backyard orchardists to give up clean unattacked fruit. I know certain varieties can be grown organically, but they usually are not the best tasting ones. Sherwin So, since the water is polluted, your going to **** in it too? Try learning a little more about IPM, or do you wipe down your counter tops with Lysol too? -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
#11
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Heirloom Apples
In article ,
Rick wrote: Oh- I use Lysol too. -Rick Why ? We live in a world of microbes killing a few million won't matter. Much better to coexist and enjoy real cheese then to think sterility is the way to live. Consider asthma and the problem that occur when the immune system is not challenged. Bill who appreciates Billy's rants. Truth is not always pleasant. ............ 1: Allergy. 2009 May;64(5):678-701. Links Scientific rationale for the Finnish Allergy Programme 2008-2018: emphasis on prevention and endorsing tolerance. von Hertzen LC, Savolainen J, Hannuksela M, Klaukka T, Lauerma A, Makela MJ, Pekkanen J, Pietinalho A, Vaarala O, Valovirta E, Vartiainen E, Haahtela T. Skin and Allergy Hospital, Helsinki University Central Hospital, Helsinki, Finland. In similarity to many other western countries, the burden of allergic diseases in Finland is high. Studies worldwide have shown that an environment rich in microbes in early life reduces the subsequent risk of developing allergic diseases. Along with urbanization, such exposure has dramatically reduced, both in terms of diversity and quantity. Continuous stimulation of the immune system by environmental saprophytes via the skin, respiratory tract and gut appears to be necessary for activation of the regulatory network including regulatory T-cells and dendritic cells. Substantial evidence now shows that the balance between allergy and tolerance is dependent on regulatory T-cells. Tolerance induced by allergen-specific regulatory T-cells appears to be the normal immunological response to allergens in non atopic healthy individuals. Healthy subjects have an intact functional allergen-specific regulatory T-cell response, which in allergic subjects is impaired. Evidence on this exists with respect to atopic dermatitis, contact dermatitis, allergic rhinitis and asthma. Restoration of impaired allergen-specific regulatory T-cell response and tolerance induction has furthermore been demonstrated during allergen-specific subcutaneous and sublingual immunotherapy and is crucial for good therapeutic outcome. However, tolerance can also be strengthened unspecifically by simple means, e.g. by consuming farm milk and spending time in nature. Results so far obtained from animal models indicate that it is possible to restore tolerance by administering the allergen in certain circumstances both locally and systemically. It has become increasingly clear that continuous exposure to microbial antigens as well as allergens in foodstuffs and the environment is decisive, and excessive antigen avoidance can be harmful and weaken or even prevent the development of regulatory mechanisms. Success in the Finnish Asthma Programme was an encouraging example of how it is possible to reduce both the costs and morbidity of asthma. The time, in the wake of the Asthma Programme, is now opportune for a national allergy programme, particularly as in the past few years, fundamentally more essential data on tolerance and its mechanisms have been published. In this review, the scientific rationale for the Finnish Allergy Programme 2008-2018 is outlined. The focus is on tolerance and how to endorse tolerance at the population level. PMID: 19383025 [PubMed - in process] -- Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA Not all who wander are lost. - J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973) |
#12
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Heirloom Apples
In article ,
You seem to want a response, so your wish is granted. Rick wrote: Evangelical christians serve only to convince me there is no god. Likewise, your viewpoint is not balanced, or based on sound science, but rather on the faith that you have discovered the "one true way". You know how I play this, if you make an assertion, you back it up with a citation: citation please. In your world all non-believers are to be publicly chastised and put down by you and the other members of your little mutual masturbation society that has recently infested these groups. Invective and ad hominem, do you have something to say? Many long time members have left, and you are one of the reasons. Your messages usually lack informative content, and serve to drive people away from organic approaches. I consider you at best a pest and at worst a thinly disguised troll on these groups. And your judgement is worth, what? How do you evaluate my lack of information, by the citations that I make, and are so glaringly absent in your little rant? I only saw this because Sherwin has given helpful advice in the past, and I tend to read his posts. I saw he was tangling with you again. I'd hate to have a gomer like you drive a valuable poster like him off the group, especially one that lacks helpful constructive content in his posts. Coloribus gustibus non disputatum It will probably surprise you to learn that I am a fan of organic food production. I make part of what I consider a pretty good living producing organic crops. I also produce hydroponic tomatoes, which are not organic. Yes we have tested and continue to experiment with organic hydroponics, but despite what you may have read, there are some very real problems that can cause devastating crop losses. Not so good when your living is on the line. Real shame that you can't share these problems with us. Are they on a need to know basis? I also raise beef. My own beef is grass fed, but not organic. After it leaves me, it gets fattened in feedlots with all the attending problems of antibiotic overuse etc. I would love people to buy my 2-3 year old cattle at $5-10 a lb on the hoof (some do), but rounding up 1,000s of customers is not going to happen soon. So they get the less tasty 6 month old feedlot beef they can afford. Hey, I thought we were here to talk about ME! Since this could all be made-up, here on the internet, why don't you cut to the chase? Then there is the Roundup ready soybeans and corn I grow. Yes! the dreaded Monsanto greedmeister killers of the earth. And they've found that they don't produce a larger crop than normal soybeans. ----- But the Union of Concerned Scientists disputed the claims of increased production in the "Failure to Yield" report. "Clearly the industry has been trying as long as it has existed to improve yields, but the record is extremely meager," Doug Gurian-Sherman, senior scientist at UCS and author of the report, told the Cleantech Group."Going forward, we need to be careful about putting too many eggs in the basket of genetic engineering." The report looks at the two most popular GM uses: herbicide-resistant corn and soybeans, and pest-resistant corn. The report showed that the use of herbicide-tolerant corn and soybeans have had no effect on actual per-acre yields. http://cleantech.com/news/4364/doubl...netically-modi ----- God, you must feel quite the fool. All the GMO crops have done for you is to let you pay for the right to pour more Roundup on the ground. Hey, way to go guy. When the scientists that invented these GM products go to sleep, perhaps they dream of the millions of lives they have saved. From my perspective, I save on diesel (big time) and many tons of topsoil because of the greatly reduced cultivation requirements. Uh, you ain't so slick, if you hadn't noticed that as your topsoil blows and trickles away, you've been having to use more and more chemferts. But hey, this is UseNet, you could be a bored student in a computer lab somewhere. I know you hate the fact they patented their products, but I am not a communist and no one is forced to buy their products. They do it because they are better and cheaper to grow. Not according to the Union of Concerned Scientists, but you probably know more than they do, not. Oh- I use Lysol too. Oh, I saw that one coming in. -Rick -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
#14
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Heirloom Apples
sherwin dubren wrote:
Steve Peek wrote: If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones that taste unbelievably good) you have to check out: http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm gonna need more land. Steve Steve, I checked out their web site and they offer four rootstocks of various sizes. What was not clear was the possibility of selecting a particular rootstock with a given variety. There must be a way to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. These people appear to be strictly organic, which is fine whenever possible. However, certain pests like Plum Curculio, Apple Maggot, and Coddling Moths probably will require something stronger than Rotenone, say Imidan. Sherwin It is interesting that someone in this group has the power to remove postings they find offensive. The entire discussion on Heirloom Apples quoted above has vanished. It includes a defense my position. Nothing like a little censorship. Sherwin |
#15
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Heirloom Apples
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message ... sherwin dubren wrote: Steve Peek wrote: If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones that taste unbelievably good) you have to check out: http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm gonna need more land. Steve Steve, I checked out their web site and they offer four rootstocks of various sizes. What was not clear was the possibility of selecting a particular rootstock with a given variety. There must be a way to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. These people appear to be strictly organic, which is fine whenever possible. However, certain pests like Plum Curculio, Apple Maggot, and Coddling Moths probably will require something stronger than Rotenone, say Imidan. Sherwin It is interesting that someone in this group has the power to remove postings they find offensive. The entire discussion on Heirloom Apples quoted above has vanished. It includes a defense my position. Nothing like a little censorship. Sherwin I still have the entire discussion. Steve |
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