All our plum tomatoes are in one garden and the rest in a completely
different area. The rest of our tomatoes appear to be ripening normally
but the plums (Romas and San Marzanos) are very weird. They look
totally ripe on the outside but when you cut them, they still have a lot
of whitish green on the inside. And if you leave the San Marzanos to
further ripen, they start to mottle and get bad spots! The Romas seem
much less affected but are still problematic. I have never seen
anything like this before. Does this anomaly sound familiar to anyone?
We also have Opalkas (in the same plot) but they have not ripened at all
yet. Might this be a nutritional problem? Missouri Z 5b

The only thing I know of that may apply is b'lotchy ripening' which is:

"a fruit disorder that is associated with specific environmental factors and
possibly bacteria. The cause is not clearly understood. Graywall is promoted
by low light intensity (a condition prevalent among dense vines), low temperature
levels, excessive soil moisture, high nitrogen levelss, and low potassium levels."
(Quote from _Identifying Diseases of Vegetables_ by Penn. State University
College of Agriculture.)

And...
I found this page of pictures of mineral deficiencies in tomatoes, just now:
http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/min-def/tomatoes.htm

Phaedrine Stonebridge said:

All our plum tomatoes are in one garden and the rest in a completely
different area. The rest of our tomatoes appear to be ripening normally
but the plums (Romas and San Marzanos) are very weird. They look
totally ripe on the outside but when you cut them, they still have a lot
of whitish green on the inside. And if you leave the San Marzanos to
further ripen, they start to mottle and get bad spots! The Romas seem
much less affected but are still problematic. I have never seen
anything like this before. Does this anomaly sound familiar to anyone?
We also have Opalkas (in the same plot) but they have not ripened at all
yet. Might this be a nutritional problem? Missouri Z 5b

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

Our paste tomatoes grow white insides if they are not watered heavily during
drought and don't have a good limng in the fall with micros added. Our sandy
soil requires that you add everything. Don't know where you are soil-wise,
but Missouri soils should have everything you need. The heavy rains may have
leeched what the soils need to produce.
Gary

"Phaedrine Stonebridge" wrote in message
news

All our plum tomatoes are in one garden and the rest in a completely
different area. The rest of our tomatoes appear to be ripening normally
but the plums (Romas and San Marzanos) are very weird. They look
totally ripe on the outside but when you cut them, they still have a lot
of whitish green on the inside. And if you leave the San Marzanos to
further ripen, they start to mottle and get bad spots! The Romas seem
much less affected but are still problematic. I have never seen
anything like this before. Does this anomaly sound familiar to anyone?
We also have Opalkas (in the same plot) but they have not ripened at all
yet. Might this be a nutritional problem? Missouri Z 5b

Besides diseasesbeing the cause, tomatoes can sometimes turn red without
ripeness when the fruit is on a blighted plant, in the presence of gases (like
the hothouse tomatoes in supermarkets) or in the case of excessive heat.

Are the tomatoes smaller than you'd expect for mature fruit? Do they taste
unripe?
Perfectly ripe Romas can sometimes have a lot of green in the central vein of
the fruit, too.
-=epm=-

In matters of truth and justice,
there is no difference between large and small problems,
for issues concerning the treatment of people are all the same.
- Albert Einstein

In article ,
(Pat Kiewicz) wrote:

The only thing I know of that may apply is b'lotchy ripening' which is:

"a fruit disorder that is associated with specific environmental factors and
possibly bacteria. The cause is not clearly understood. Graywall is
promoted
by low light intensity (a condition prevalent among dense vines), low
temperature
levels, excessive soil moisture, high nitrogen levelss, and low potassium
levels."
(Quote from _Identifying Diseases of Vegetables_ by Penn. State University
College of Agriculture.)

And...
I found this page of pictures of mineral deficiencies in tomatoes, just now:
http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/min-def/tomatoes.htm

Phaedrine Stonebridge said:

All our plum tomatoes are in one garden and the rest in a completely
different area. The rest of our tomatoes appear to be ripening normally
but the plums (Romas and San Marzanos) are very weird. They look
totally ripe on the outside but when you cut them, they still have a lot
of whitish green on the inside. And if you leave the San Marzanos to
further ripen, they start to mottle and get bad spots! The Romas seem
much less affected but are still problematic. I have never seen
anything like this before. Does this anomaly sound familiar to anyone?
We also have Opalkas (in the same plot) but they have not ripened at all
yet. Might this be a nutritional problem? Missouri Z 5b


Very helpful as I noted in my email. We are checking with the extension
service about a soils test. Thanks again!

In article ,
"V_coerulea" wrote:

"Phaedrine Stonebridge" wrote in message
news

All our plum tomatoes are in one garden and the rest in a completely
different area. The rest of our tomatoes appear to be ripening normally
but the plums (Romas and San Marzanos) are very weird. They look
totally ripe on the outside but when you cut them, they still have a lot
of whitish green on the inside. And if you leave the San Marzanos to
further ripen, they start to mottle and get bad spots! The Romas seem
much less affected but are still problematic. I have never seen
anything like this before. Does this anomaly sound familiar to anyone?
We also have Opalkas (in the same plot) but they have not ripened at all
yet. Might this be a nutritional problem? Missouri Z 5b

Our paste tomatoes grow white insides if they are not watered heavily during
drought and don't have a good limng in the fall with micros added. Our sandy
soil requires that you add everything. Don't know where you are soil-wise,
but Missouri soils should have everything you need. The heavy rains may have
leeched what the soils need to produce.
Gary


Thanks for responding. We will reconsider our watering routines then.
Our soil is on the clay side but not too bad AFAIK. I think a soil test
is definitely in order--- especially since our other plot of non-paste
tomatoes on the other side of the house does so well. The paste tomato
plot has been a lawn for like 15 years and before that allegedly pasture
for cows. The ground was not too difficult to til the first time so the
clay is not too bad. But I have not tested the PH so we will have that
and other tests run. Thaniks!

In article ,
(EvelynMcH) wrote:

Besides diseasesbeing the cause, tomatoes can sometimes turn red without
ripeness when the fruit is on a blighted plant, in the presence of gases (like
the hothouse tomatoes in supermarkets) or in the case of excessive heat.

Amazingly, the plants with the least problem (the Romas) have minor leaf
curl and the others do not. We did have some BER but my DH thought it
was due to a hose leak that had flooded that part of the garden. The
tomatoes trying to ripen now, are not BERd. After an exceptionally cool
spring for this area (Missouri Z 5b), we have had some really blazingly
hot weather in the upper 90s over July. I thought the foliage looked a
bit chlorotic and we were just exploring how to get trace elements to
them when this happened. The previous owners did appear to have used a
lot of chemicals on the lawn; they had a contract with one of those
places. Both sprays and pellets were used according to receipts in the
house book. Given that we are not having this problem in the other
garden (which did not used to be lawn), perhaps that is also part of the
problem?

Are the tomatoes smaller than you'd expect for mature fruit? Do they taste
unripe?

The fruit is quite large--- MUCH larger than I would expect. I have
never grown San Marzanos before so I am unsure of their normal size.
Ours are like 4-5 inches long and 2-3 inches wide. They are huge! My
dad used to grow plum tomatoes and they were a LOT smaller. The Romas
seem to average a regular 3 inches long and 2.5 inches wide. They look
very ripe on the outside but when you cut into them, they are quite
green including the outer circle of the tomato. This is happening on
both the Romas and San Marzanos but to a much greater extent on the
Marzanos. They do not taste ripe at all either. The Opalkas, though
enormous, are still totally green. Letting them sit out to ripen does
not work either. They just mottle and spoil.

Perfectly ripe Romas can sometimes have a lot of green in the central vein of
the fruit, too.

In this particular garden, we are successfully growing beans of all
kinds, corn, raspberries and blackberries, cucumbers, eggplant, peas
(done now), and we wintered over the plot with rye, tilling it in in the
spring. We also tilled in the peas when they were done (an they are
volunteering with the corn lol). Everything else has grown normally.
Are tomatoes the "canaries" of modern gardens?

Phaedrine Stonebridge wrote:

In article ,
(EvelynMcH) wrote:


Besides diseasesbeing the cause, tomatoes can sometimes turn red without
ripeness ... in the case of excessive heat.


After an exceptionally cool
spring for this area (Missouri Z 5b), we have had some really blazingly
hot weather in the upper 90s over July. I thought the foliage looked a
bit chlorotic and we were just exploring how to get trace elements to
them when this happened. The previous owners did appear to have used a
lot of chemicals on the lawn; they had a contract with one of those
places. ...

...


The fruit is quite large--- MUCH larger than I would expect.
....

They do not taste ripe at all either.


Pardon the snipage.I wanted to quote without being excessive. I'm in the
same zone as you and having the exact same issues with tomatoes this
summer (bland, white spots inside), under similar conditions (heat, lawn
chemicals).

I'm thinking the heat has more to do with it than anything. All the
grass and smaller plants on our property are starting to look a bit
overdone from the sun, but it's not nearly as bad yet as it was a couple
years back when our 30-year-old maples started to *wilt*.

I'm hoping the weather breaks before I lose the plants completely, I'd
like to have tomatoes this fall.


Dawn

In article ,
Dawn wrote:

Phaedrine Stonebridge wrote:

In article ,
(EvelynMcH) wrote:


Besides diseasesbeing the cause, tomatoes can sometimes turn red without
ripeness ... in the case of excessive heat.


After an exceptionally cool
spring for this area (Missouri Z 5b), we have had some really blazingly
hot weather in the upper 90s over July. I thought the foliage looked a
bit chlorotic and we were just exploring how to get trace elements to
them when this happened. The previous owners did appear to have used a
lot of chemicals on the lawn; they had a contract with one of those
places. ...

...


The fruit is quite large--- MUCH larger than I would expect.
...

They do not taste ripe at all either.


Pardon the snipage.I wanted to quote without being excessive. I'm in the
same zone as you and having the exact same issues with tomatoes this
summer (bland, white spots inside), under similar conditions (heat, lawn
chemicals).

Wow..... I am sorry to hear you are having similar problems. The
difference is that we have two plots of tomatoes maybe a couple hundred
yards apart. One is doing great and the other is not.

I'm thinking the heat has more to do with it than anything. All the
grass and smaller plants on our property are starting to look a bit
overdone from the sun, but it's not nearly as bad yet as it was a couple
years back when our 30-year-old maples started to *wilt*.


Gosh I hope your luck imporves soon!

Phaedrine Stonebridge wrote in message ...

Our paste tomatoes grow white insides if they are not watered heavily during
drought and don't have a good limng in the fall with micros added. Our sandy
soil requires that you add everything. Don't know where you are soil-wise,
but Missouri soils should have everything you need. The heavy rains may have
leeched what the soils need to produce.
Gary


Thanks for responding. We will reconsider our watering routines then.
Our soil is on the clay side but not too bad AFAIK. I think a soil test
is definitely in order--- especially since our other plot of non-paste
tomatoes on the other side of the house does so well. The paste tomato
plot has been a lawn for like 15 years and before that allegedly pasture
for cows. The ground was not too difficult to til the first time so the
clay is not too bad. But I have not tested the PH so we will have that
and other tests run. Thaniks!

Sandy and clay are two different beasts. As Pat said, excessive
moisture may have more to do with your problem - also tomatoes are
fairly tolerant of pH.
See if the problems goes away as your soil dries up (like, the August
tomatoes are going to be better). If they don't improve, I'd try some
combination of foliar feeding for this year, and micro-rich organics
for next year (some wood ash, and kitchen scraps).

Phaedrine Stonebridge said:
snip

I thought the foliage looked a
bit chlorotic and we were just exploring how to get trace elements to
them when this happened. The previous owners did appear to have used a
lot of chemicals on the lawn; they had a contract with one of those
places. Both sprays and pellets were used according to receipts in the
house book. Given that we are not having this problem in the other
garden (which did not used to be lawn), perhaps that is also part of the
problem?

If the lawn clippings were carted off and replaced mainly with high nitrogen
lawn fertilizers, it is very possible that you have an area that's been depleted
of some critical micornutrient or even a macronutrient (like potassium).

Lots of people 'strip-mine' their soil by sending off the fallen leaves and
grass clippings, and don't replace much more than the nitrogen. (Trees
recover most of the nutrients from their leaves before they drop, but not
all of them.)

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

In article ,
(Pat Kiewicz) wrote:

Phaedrine Stonebridge said:
snip

I thought the foliage looked a
bit chlorotic and we were just exploring how to get trace elements to
them when this happened. The previous owners did appear to have used a
lot of chemicals on the lawn; they had a contract with one of those
places. Both sprays and pellets were used according to receipts in the
house book. Given that we are not having this problem in the other
garden (which did not used to be lawn), perhaps that is also part of the
problem?

If the lawn clippings were carted off and replaced mainly with high nitrogen
lawn fertilizers, it is very possible that you have an area that's been
depleted
of some critical micornutrient or even a macronutrient (like potassium).

Lots of people 'strip-mine' their soil by sending off the fallen leaves and
grass clippings, and don't replace much more than the nitrogen. (Trees
recover most of the nutrients from their leaves before they drop, but not
all of them.)


The clippings were left on as it was a couple acres of lawn. Lots of
chemicals I think. We are gathering soil samples for the extension
service.

In article ,
(simy1) wrote:

Phaedrine Stonebridge wrote in
message

...

Our paste tomatoes grow white insides if they are not watered
heavily during drought and don't have a good limng in the fall
with micros added. Our sandy soil requires that you add
everything. Don't know where you are soil-wise, but Missouri
soils should have everything you need. The heavy rains may have
leeched what the soils need to produce. Gary


Thanks for responding. We will reconsider our watering routines
then. Our soil is on the clay side but not too bad AFAIK. I think
a soil test is definitely in order--- especially since our other
plot of non-paste tomatoes on the other side of the house does so
well. The paste tomato plot has been a lawn for like 15 years and
before that allegedly pasture for cows. The ground was not too
difficult to til the first time so the clay is not too bad. But I
have not tested the PH so we will have that and other tests run.
Thaniks!

Sandy and clay are two different beasts. As Pat said, excessive
moisture may have more to do with your problem - also tomatoes are
fairly tolerant of pH. See if the problems goes away as your soil
dries up (like, the August tomatoes are going to be better). If they
don't improve, I'd try some combination of foliar feeding for this
year, and micro-rich organics for next year (some wood ash, and
kitchen scraps).


Whew, at least I was partially on target. We did go out and get some
tomato food in foliar spray form. And we just added a second compost
pile. Wood ash won't be a problem either, thank you

Our Park's Whoppers (in the other garden plot) are producing great guns
now, as are the Juliets, Beefmsters and a few others. The Brandywines
(potato leaved) has a lot of tomatoes now.... ENORMOUS... but they are
still all green. The Early Girls are a disappointment. They seem to
like to split and aren't all that pleasant tasting.

Phaedrine Stonebridge said:
The Early Girls are a disappointment. They seem to
like to split and aren't all that pleasant tasting.

One thing about Early Girls as they turn red several days before they are *really*
ripe. So if you pick them when they *look* ready, they will dissapoint.

That having been said, I replaced the 'Early Girls' with '4th of July' in my garden.
I had tried 'Stupice' which are also nice and early and tastely, but they tend to
green shoulders and give up producing later in the summer while '4th of July'
keeps going.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

In article ,
(Pat Kiewicz) wrote:

Phaedrine Stonebridge said:
The Early Girls are a disappointment. They seem to
like to split and aren't all that pleasant tasting.

One thing about Early Girls as they turn red several days before they
are *really* ripe. So if you pick them when they *look* ready, they
will dissapoint.

That having been said, I replaced the 'Early Girls' with '4th of
July' in my garden. I had tried 'Stupice' which are also nice and
early and tastely, but they tend to green shoulders and give up
producing later in the summer while '4th of July' keeps going.


Ah ha..... I will try leaving them on the vine longer then and, failing
that, we'll look into "4th of July" for next year. Thanks!