I use the 4 step program from Scotts and my lawns are not big enough
to use the whole bag, so I have all 4 bags left over from last summer.
They've been in my shed. Can I use them this spring and summer?

Xref: news7 rec.gardens:215350

Jeffy3 wrote:
I use the 4 step program from Scotts and my lawns are not big enough
to use the whole bag, so I have all 4 bags left over from last summer.
They've been in my shed. Can I use them this spring and summer?

That defeats the whole purpose of the program. The program is designed
to keep you buying Scotts products, and if you're actually going to use
the left-overs instead of buying new, you're defeating the whole purpose
of the program.

I know you probably thought that the purpose of the program was to help
you have a great lawn, but that's just marketing talk. I would suggest
doing a little research on lawn care using websites that have an agenda
other than selling their products.

But if you really want to raise a chemically dependant lawn that will
progressively need more and more chemicals until it's beyond saving, if
you've kept the bags in a dry place, they'll be as effective as they
were last year.

But seriously.... You'll do yourself a big favor if you avoid their
"program". I'm not saying you'll never want to use a product they sell.
I'm just saying that their agenda is to sell you stuff. Your agenda is
probably to have a good looking, healthy lawn, and you'll save yourself
a lot of time and money by not following their program. (And by avoiding
their "program" you'll also dump less pollutants into the streams in
your area, and you won't have to worry about your lawn needing to be
off-limits to kids because of constant chemical applications.)


--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

On 24 Mar 2003 07:37:29 -0800, (Jeffy3) wrote:

I use the 4 step program from Scotts and my lawns are not big enough
to use the whole bag, so I have all 4 bags left over from last summer.
They've been in my shed. Can I use them this spring and summer?

Yes you can use them. Problem with saving fertilizers is that they
can absorb water and cake up. BTW, Sams Choice or K-Gro brands are
just as good as Scotts, but less money. Where you can't go cheap is
grass seed. If you want to give your lawn a real treat, alternate
feedings with an organic fertilizer.

(Jeffy3) wrote in message . com...
I use the 4 step program from Scotts and my lawns are not big enough
to use the whole bag, so I have all 4 bags left over from last summer.
They've been in my shed. Can I use them this spring and summer?

Should be no problem at all, break up any lumps.

Granular fertilizers last just about forever, as long as they stay dry.
Overtime they absorb moisture from the air and clump together. You can just
crush the clumps with your hand and use it.

Having said that, granular fertilizers aren't good for the lawn, the
enviornment, the ground water, and rivers. They don't feed the bacteria and
other creatures that live in the ground, which creates an unhealthy lawn
eventually. The excess fertilizer drains off into the rivers and ponds, and
provides food for the algae, turning rivers and ponds green.

This is what I do. Mow the lawn first, then I core the lawn using a handheld
aerator, next I spread grass seed if needed. I also spread a mixture of bone
meal and blood meal at this time. Then I rake a thin layer of composted
steer manure over the grass. Then water this, and don't mow the lawn for two
weeks to give things time to soak into the ground..

After a few weeks, I water with a hose-end sprayer some fish emulsion. Do
this when you don't expect guests for 2-3 days, because it will have a
rotting fish smell for a day or two. You'll also want to shower right away.

Start now, so the organisms in the ground have time to start breaking down
all the stuff into a form the plants can handle, before the peak growing
season. If you get into the growing season, and you feel things need a
boost, then use a bit of a granular fertilizer. But I suspect you might not.

Sameer


"Jeffy3" wrote in message
om...
I use the 4 step program from Scotts and my lawns are not big enough
to use the whole bag, so I have all 4 bags left over from last summer.
They've been in my shed. Can I use them this spring and summer?

"Jeffy3" wrote in message
om...
I use the 4 step program from Scotts and my lawns are not big enough
to use the whole bag, so I have all 4 bags left over from last summer.
They've been in my shed. Can I use them this spring and summer?

Yes you can use them this spring and summer.

Derryl

"Warren" wrote in message news:HtGfa.202736$F1.10448@sccrnsc04...
Jeffy3 wrote:
I use the 4 step program from Scotts and my lawns are not big enough
to use the whole bag, so I have all 4 bags left over from last summer.
They've been in my shed. Can I use them this spring and summer?

That defeats the whole purpose of the program. The program is designed
to keep you buying Scotts products, and if you're actually going to use
the left-overs instead of buying new, you're defeating the whole purpose
of the program.

I know you probably thought that the purpose of the program was to help
you have a great lawn, but that's just marketing talk. I would suggest
doing a little research on lawn care using websites that have an agenda
other than selling their products.

But if you really want to raise a chemically dependant lawn that will
progressively need more and more chemicals until it's beyond saving, if
you've kept the bags in a dry place, they'll be as effective as they
were last year.

But seriously.... You'll do yourself a big favor if you avoid their
"program". I'm not saying you'll never want to use a product they sell.
I'm just saying that their agenda is to sell you stuff. Your agenda is
probably to have a good looking, healthy lawn, and you'll save yourself
a lot of time and money by not following their program. (And by avoiding
their "program" you'll also dump less pollutants into the streams in
your area, and you won't have to worry about your lawn needing to be
off-limits to kids because of constant chemical applications.)


--
Warren H.


Warren, all your points are well-taken but I am an average Schmoe who
has little or no time to fuss over my lawn but I don't want to be
totally negligent either so I follow the 4-step program. Thanks for
your help though.

On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:35:51 GMT, "Warren"
wrote:
That defeats the whole purpose of the program. The program is designed
to keep you buying Scotts products, and if you're actually going to use
the left-overs instead of buying new, you're defeating the whole purpose
of the program...... (snip)

Warren, I nominate that for best posting of the month!

vince norris

Come On In! wrote:

Warren, all your points are well-taken but I am an average Schmoe who
has little or no time to fuss over my lawn but I don't want to be
totally negligent either so I follow the 4-step program. Thanks for
your help though.

All the more reason *not* to dump chemicals on your lawn. As the years
go on, your lawn will become less and less healthy, and require more and
more work, and will still continue to look worse and worse.

If you're looking for a quick fix, rip out as much of the lawn as you
can, and replace it with appropriate low-maintenance perennials. After
the initial conversion, it's possible to get it down to a weekend of
work in the spring, and another weekend in the fall. Snake some soaker
hoses, connect a timer, and you've cut your work even further.

(Okay, I exaggerate a bit. The first few years while you wait for things
to fill in, you may need to do a little weeding, but weeds growing in
mulch come out a lot easier than those in the lawn. Or you could over
plant in the beginning, and just thin-out some plants as years go by.)

Lawns are a lot of work. And they become more and more work if they
become dependant on some chemical program. If you're really short on
time, don't be tempted by the chemical route. Take a little bit of time
this year to build a healthy lawn that can sustain itself well.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

Warren wrote:

Come On In! wrote:

Warren, all your points are well-taken but I am an average Schmoe who
has little or no time to fuss over my lawn but I don't want to be
totally negligent either so I follow the 4-step program. Thanks for
your help though.

All the more reason *not* to dump chemicals on your lawn. As the years
go on, your lawn will become less and less healthy, and require more and
more work, and will still continue to look worse and worse.

If you're looking for a quick fix, rip out as much of the lawn as you
can, and replace it with appropriate low-maintenance perennials. After
the initial conversion, it's possible to get it down to a weekend of
work in the spring, and another weekend in the fall. Snake some soaker
hoses, connect a timer, and you've cut your work even further.

(Okay, I exaggerate a bit. The first few years while you wait for things
to fill in, you may need to do a little weeding, but weeds growing in
mulch come out a lot easier than those in the lawn. Or you could over
plant in the beginning, and just thin-out some plants as years go by.)

Lawns are a lot of work. And they become more and more work if they
become dependant on some chemical program. If you're really short on
time, don't be tempted by the chemical route. Take a little bit of time
this year to build a healthy lawn that can sustain itself well.


I have to second Warren's comments. There is no need to adopt any
manufacturer's "4 step program" - lawns simply don't need all that fussing
to look good and once you start it, you can't stop. Lawns do indeed become
chemically dependent.

There is a very simple and considerably less expensive and time-consuming
process you should follow:

1) Fertilize your lawn only twice a year (in mid-spring and early fall) with
an organic lawn fertilizer. Even once a year will suffice if you opt for the
fall application. Over fertilizing reduces the populations of essential soil
microroganisms that provide natural access to the nutrients lawns need. It
promotes lush but weak growth which is vulnerable to diseases and and unable
to withstand heat and drought

2) Spot weed as needed. Do not apply weed 'n feed mixtures - they are
expensive and ineffective and treat areas where no weeds exist. They
contribute heavily to groundwater pollution and are harmful to kids and
animals. If annual weeds are a problem, use corn gluten meal as a
pre-emergent. It is also a pretty decent fertilizer, too.

3). Mow high and often. You should not be removing any more than 1/3 of the
total lawn length and ideally lawns should not be shorter than two inches.
For even better results, use a mulching mower to recycle the grass clippings
and further reduce the need for fertilizing.

4) Water deeply and infrequently. Those 10-15 minute daily cycles of the
irrigation system are a waste of time and a valuable and irreplaceable
resource. Much better to water once a week for 45 minutes - the water will
percolate deep enough to encourage deep root growth and the lawn will
eventually need less water and be more drought tolerant.

I have not fertilized my lawn since I purchased a mulching mower about 10
years ago. It is not pristine - there are a few weeds here and there, but
they are easily removed by hand - and a pristine lawn is unnatural anyway.
It is a fallacy promoted by fertilizer manufacturers. My lawn is thick and
healthy and requires absolutely no chemical intervention. It doesn't even
have much moss, which in the PNW is remarkable. I don't water in summer
other than what overfall it may get from my other plantings - I allow it to
go dormant (as is the nature of cool season grasses - your area may be
different) and it revives wonderfully as soon as the fall rains appear.

Other than a weekly mowing in season, my lawn requires NO OTHER WORK. Now
isn't that a better approach?? Less time involved and far less money and no
additional contribution to environmental pollution. Try it - it works!

pam - gardengal

"Pam" wrote in message
...

snip

4) Water deeply and infrequently. Those 10-15 minute daily cycles of the
irrigation system are a waste of time and a valuable and irreplaceable
resource. Much better to water once a week for 45 minutes - the water will
percolate deep enough to encourage deep root growth and the lawn will
eventually need less water and be more drought tolerant.

Holy cow! 45 minute waterings? Do you wade out to the center of the lawn?
You must live some place really hot and dry. Out here in San Jose, CA, I
water the lawn twice a week for 10 minutes.

Sameer

Snooze wrote:

Holy cow! 45 minute waterings? Do you wade out to the center of the
lawn?
You must live some place really hot and dry. Out here in San Jose, CA,
I
water the lawn twice a week for 10 minutes.

Unless you have incredibly sandy soil, a 10 minute watering is not going
to get the water down deep enough. Short watering cycles encourage
shallow routes, and that's worse than not watering, and allowing the
turf to go dormant.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:51:59 GMT, Pam wrote:

I have not fertilized my lawn since I purchased a mulching mower about 10
years ago........ I don't water in summer other than what overfall it may get from my other plantings - I allow it to
go dormant (as is the nature of cool season grasses - your area may be
different) and it revives wonderfully as soon as the fall rains appear.

Other than a weekly mowing in season, my lawn requires NO OTHER WORK.
pam - gardengal

In case people find that hard to believe, I have not fertilized or
watered my lawn for at least 20 years.

I use a mulching mower and cut the grass 3 inches high.

I live in central PA, and all you gardeners probably know about the
droughts we've had. My lawn stayed green. I think it's because the
grass was forced to send roots down deep, where they can find a bit of
moisture even in the driest times.

Over the years, I've probably saved a thousand bucks and a hell of a
lot of work.

vince norris

Living out in the bush like we do, we can't water the lawn. We're on a
water pump system (electric, not hand!) and sandpoints so that kind of water
just isn't there. My lawn only shows damage from this in the most extreme
season and not normally until almost the end of the summer. It comes back
just beautifully the following spring anyway, so I don't worry about it
anymore. The water is more important for my veggies!
--
Tammie
Zone 2b-3a Far Northern Ontario
http://community.webshots.com/user/_tammie57

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:51:59 GMT, Pam wrote:

I have not fertilized my lawn since I purchased a mulching mower about 10
years ago........ I don't water in summer other than what overfall it may
get from my other plantings - I allow it to
go dormant (as is the nature of cool season grasses - your area may be
different) and it revives wonderfully as soon as the fall rains appear.

Other than a weekly mowing in season, my lawn requires NO OTHER WORK.
pam - gardengal

In case people find that hard to believe, I have not fertilized or
watered my lawn for at least 20 years.

I use a mulching mower and cut the grass 3 inches high.

I live in central PA, and all you gardeners probably know about the
droughts we've had. My lawn stayed green. I think it's because the
grass was forced to send roots down deep, where they can find a bit of
moisture even in the driest times.

Over the years, I've probably saved a thousand bucks and a hell of a
lot of work.

vince norris

Snooze wrote:

"Pam" wrote in message
...

snip

4) Water deeply and infrequently. Those 10-15 minute daily cycles of the
irrigation system are a waste of time and a valuable and irreplaceable
resource. Much better to water once a week for 45 minutes - the water will
percolate deep enough to encourage deep root growth and the lawn will
eventually need less water and be more drought tolerant.

Holy cow! 45 minute waterings? Do you wade out to the center of the lawn?
You must live some place really hot and dry. Out here in San Jose, CA, I
water the lawn twice a week for 10 minutes.


A lot depends on the type of lawn and soil conditions you have, but generally,
most lawn grasses require an inch of water per week. I seriously doubt you are
applying a inch of water with 2, 10 minute irrigations. A weekly inch of water
(applied all together, not dabbled out in periodic squirts) will penetrate down
6-8 inches in most soils, deeper in some. This results in a deep root system for
the lawn which is far more beneficial and able to withstand various stresses
than the very shallow root system frequent, short waterings encourage. Most of
what you are applying is evaporating anyway long before it reaches the root
system.

Do a google search under "lawn watering" - pretty nearly every single hit will
reiterate exactly what has been stated. BTW, a 45 minute watering will not
result in any lakes or puddles in any lawn that needs water or that is grown on
any soil other than hardpan - and you probably won't have much of a lawn in that
case, anyway.

pam - gardengal