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#136
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And some people say there's no God...
Jangchub skrev: On 30 Aug 2006 03:48:22 -0700, "thomas p." wrote: Mind is not a thing; it is not energy. It is a process in the brain. When the brain ceases to exist, there is no mind. You have no evidence of this, so how can you be so certain? I have no evidence that my furniture does not discuss politics as soon as I fall asleep. In other words, there is no evidence or objective reason to think anything else. It is sad that you cannot handle criticism of your beliefs, that you have to respond with silly accusations. My original statement that reincarnation has no objective support for it and that, therefore, it is an irrational belief stands. That's the difference between you and me. I USED to criticize people for their beliefs, You still do. The first post of yours that I responded to was a criticism of other people's beliefs. and now I've learned everyone has their beliefs or not and at the very least the phrase one of my teachers uses is: "Hands off, mouth shut." It's even sadder you feel so compelled to criticize. Sorry, if you present your opinions/beliefs on a public forum, there is nothing sad, wrong or offensive about others criticizing them. If you cannot stand such criticism, you should not post your beliefs here. It really is very simple. I am not always good at this, but it is an aspiration. What the scientific community is seeing now is the extent Tibetan Buddhists know about the functions of the mind. It has nothing to do with a brain. It's a consciousness which comes from a previous moment of itself, back and back and back. Then you should have no problem with introducing us all to a mind, or to scientific data that would support the above assertion. You don't have to believe it, nobody is pushing it down your throat, but to criticize something you are not familiar with is like me trying to make believe I am an expert on quantum physics and mechanics. You made a claim. So far you have been unable to back it up with anything of substance. Instead you have posted a continuous stream of insults, and now you are making assertions about what unnamed scientists believe. |
#137
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And some people say there's no God...
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:09:34 GMT, Jangchub wrote:
- Refer: : "Hands off, mouth shut." It's even sadder you feel so compelled to criticize. : But it is positively criminal to NOT criticise someone who fervently believes in an unprovable fantasy, and bursts into an atheist group and lies about having proof, boldly criticising others for making rational comments, and so on. Face it, Jangchub. Loonies who blather on about reincarnation and other patent rubbish are prime targets for not only criticism, but outright derision. As for your prostitution and distortion of what Science has to say about your delusions, (and I do claim to be an expert in Quantum Mechanics by the way), I think that you should be prosecuted for crimes against truth and reality. Just come up with just an iota of proof that your juvenile wishings have any basis in fact, and we can talk. Until then, you are just blowing jasmine-scented hot-air up rational thinking peoples' backsides. |
#138
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And some people say there's no God...
In article , Jangchub
wrote: On 28 Aug 2006 20:56:07 -0700, "Mike" wrote: The pseudo-scientific community draws all kinds of idiotic conclusions of this type. If you are a big fan of this kind of New Age fluff you should check out the crackbrain theory of the ``morphogenic field" and other such absurdities. The world is full of idiots who dabble in quantum mechanics and other au courant fields of physics and draw preposterous philosophical and even spiritual conclusions from what they think they understand about physics. BE WARNED: Charlatans abound in these areas. I understand what you think, but I am growing tired of terms like, idiotic, and crackbrain. Here is the link for Mind Science Conference. Hardly a group of new age idiots. http://www.investigatingthemind.org/ I was raised in a mixed race Buddhist household & meditation was part of our daily activities & I do believe meditation is a healthful practice & never surprised when that benefit is measurable. Everything that might be said in favor of meditation, however, might also be said of regular ol' Christian prayer. It's a religious practice, & the mind science crew are about incorporating faith practices in a wholistic health program that comingles Faith & Medicine. Insofar as this means a legitimately sick person is NOT encouraged to rely on faith healing alone it seems to me it can do no harm & might do some good. But listening to Mozart or reading Keats might also do some good -- there is no implication, to me, that a disregard for Faith necessarily weakens the ability to heal. Being ****ed off, bitter, angry, depressed, & lonely might hamper healing, but being faithless is not inherently a demerit to health. ANYwhere that faith attempts to prove itself to be scientific has an element of crackpotism to it. Whether it's Buddhists seeking "interfaces between neuroscience and the meditative disciplines" as the idiotic jargon of the Mind Science crew would have it, or Southern Baptists with some lame-ass "scentific" studies about how prayer induces improvements in healing, either may be proof that religious practice under rare ideal conditions enriches & improves life & health, but so would be composing a sonnet to Reason or getting better excercise. The REAL "interface" between science & these religious practitioners in the Buddhist "mind sciences" is $$$$. They raise money from religious folks & give it to medical institutes in exchange for perks, favors, office space, memberships, chairs, & the right to select which pseudo-sciences the funds can be used for. The Mind & Life people are religious folks foremost. My own life & imagination & creativity was shaped in great part by Buddhism & I have love for some of the practices & for the mythology & the folklore & the history. That buddhism encompasses even atheism as an acceptable belief system is a rather charming feature of the faith; an air-tight system of belief SHOULD be able to coopt everything, even science & unbelief; the ease with which Christian fundamentalists are spooked by science suggests to me it's not a well worked out system, as circular logic can sustain just about any idea, whether poetic or moronic. But at the very heart of the matter, it's religion, & I am not offended that some would equate even a pretty religion with crackpotism. If Einstein was alive, he'd have finished the Theory of Everything. He was right on the cusp and possibly had the equation, but he died before he wrote it down somewhere. This is one of the myths of the saint Einstein, not the mathematician, who did his great work early on and never achieved anything so substantial the rest of his life. "If Einstein had lived a little longer he would have unlocked all secrets of the universe" is paralleled by "If Eddison had lived a little longer he would have perfected his psychic-telephone for calling up the dead." Both assertions are theosophic. I think string theory is a parallel system to the beliefs in Buddhism. Many mystical systems could be interpretted as string theory & classical Kabbalah comes closest, Tantric buddhism a close second, or the aeonic theories of gnosticism. This is not evidence that religion has a scientific basis but only that there's something in humanity driving us to ponder origination. Whether one adapts the vocabulary of the mystic or the vocabulary of the mathematician, the goal is to put a "handle" on the nature & origin of the universe & all the phenemona within that universe. Human understanding will always have similarities whether the conclusion of meditative process or of scientific theory. To "believe" that is evidence of a singular Absolute is a bit like believing a stick and a stickbug are the same thing. A part of me likes to believe a stick & a stickbug are the same thing, & that in my mediations I become a miniature reflection of the entire cosmos & the little thing that is me or us becomes as significant as the big thing in which we all reside smaller than dust. But my admiration for these thought processes is the admiration I have for poetry rather than science. Then again, I don't know your working knowledge of the philosophy of Buddhism. That would help. It's odd to me when someone poopoos something they may not have fully examined. That's a bit like the argument "you can't condemn pornography if you don't collect it" or "you can be sure murder is a bad thing unless you kill people." One doesn't have to be steeped in buddhism to regard the influence of faith on scientific research as crackpotism. And what surprises ME is your alarm in the category of "crackpotism" because the Little Wheel tradition in which I was raised would not take offense to it. All things are true & untrue, & are beside the point. It's all illusion. Recognizing this as crackpotism is as good a road to Liberation as any. -paghat the ratgirl -- visit my temperate gardening website: http://www.paghat.com.html visit my film reviews webiste: http://www.weirdwildrealm.com |
#139
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And some people say there's no God...
In article . com, "thomas
p." wrote: Jangchub skrev: On 30 Aug 2006 03:48:22 -0700, "thomas p." wrote: Mind is not a thing; it is not energy. It is a process in the brain. When the brain ceases to exist, there is no mind. You have no evidence of this, so how can you be so certain? I have no evidence that my furniture does not discuss politics as soon as I fall asleep. In other words, there is no evidence or objective reason to think anything else. When I was a wee child I worried that all the stuff in my room came alive when I fell asleep, & if any object felt mistreated or ignored, it might want to avenge itself upon me. For this reason I started reading books instead of playing with toys, as I could not otherwise disguise my favorites. Some of us do learn to reason a bit more clearly as we mature. Others never outgrow belief in the supernatural. Perhaps if I'd convinced myself my posessions wanted to protect me, instead of worried they might want to punish me, I would've clung to the belief longer, or to some similar belief in the Invisible Friend. If that's the case, "maturing" into rationalism is inspired by a desire to overcome irrational fears, & failure to "mature" into rationalism is a desire to cling to irrational feelings of well being. And the impetus to rational or a tendency toward belief in the impossible have similarly nutty beginnings. -paghat the ratgirl You don't have to believe it, nobody is pushing it down your throat, but to criticize something you are not familiar with is like me trying to make believe I am an expert on quantum physics and mechanics. You made a claim. So far you have been unable to back it up with anything of substance. Instead you have posted a continuous stream of insults, and now you are making assertions about what unnamed scientists believe. -- visit my temperate gardening website: http://www.paghat.com.html visit my film reviews webiste: http://www.weirdwildrealm.com |
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