In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Welcome to the next Afghanistan. Mexico, run by warlords.

It's already run by an oligarchy, like we are, and when it suits our
needs we, the U.S. government facilitates smuggling and disrtibution of
drugs, from the "Golden Triangle" to Afghanistan to Central America.
See:
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Alliance-...on/dp/18883639
32/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241727095&sr=1-1

Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Crack Cocaine Explosion
by Gary Webb

In July 1995, San Jose Mercury-News reporter Gary Webb found the Big
One--the blockbuster story every journalist secretly dreams
about--without even looking for it. A simple phone call concerning an
unexceptional pending drug trial turned into a massive conspiracy
involving the Nicaraguan Contra rebels, L.A. and Bay Area crack cocaine
dealers, and the Central Intelligence Agency. For several years during
the 1980s, Webb discovered, Contra elements shuttled thousands of tons
of cocaine into the United States, with the profits going toward the
funding of Contra rebels attempting a counterrevolution in their
Nicaraguan homeland. Even more chilling, Webb quickly realized, was that
the massive drug-dealing operation had the implicit approval--and
occasional outright support--of the CIA, the very organization entrusted
to prevent illegal drugs from being brought into the United States.
-----
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 07 May 2009 09:20:48 -0500, Jangchub
wrote:

On Thu, 7 May 2009 10:16:44 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 07 May 2009 07:53:14 -0500, wrote:

not to mention the valuable fiber of hemp.

actually, I hate the smell of it burning and it makes me sick as a dog,

Bummer ;-)


but this "war
on drugs" is incredibly stupid ..............


Yes, the war on drugs has always been incredibly stupid. As one of
our local shurff's deputies was telling me one day, they have very few
problems with behavior related to being stoned, unlike the violence
and other shit so often involved with alcohol abuse.

Gotta tell ya though, some drugs need eradicating. our part of the
world is meth central for manufacturing and I've seen the results of
meth use. Ain't pretty.

Charlie


Natural selection will take care of meth users quite nicely.


There is no comparison between pot and meth. None what so ever. Meth
heads are not normal people. They have a serious flaw, be it
character, or resolve, or ordinary ****youishness and
shoveitupyourassishness about themselves. They don't care about
anybody, not even themselves. I say, distribute every drug to any
adult who wants it. Decriminalize it. People are in jail, PRISON for
decades because of a few grams of pot or hash. Utterly ridiculuos.
Prison should be for violent crimes, period.

None of this will mean anything, so it's almost useless to discuss.
Victoria

Perhaps, but the discussion is becoming more public and the opposition
to the war on drugs is growing. The scale of the corruption at
governement and enforcement level is more widely known.

And yes I have a problem with meth, but.....you are correct and I
agree with the libertarian position, even though viscerally it is a
bit tough, given personal connections to the results of meth use.
Thanks for making me confront my, uh....hypocrisy (fumbling for the
right word which is evading me).

Of course, I've my recurring "overuse" of alcohol and I don't advocate
prohibition.

Charlie

As with performance enhancing steroids, some people feel pressured into
using amphetamines, i.e. construction workers, and long haul truck
drivers. Amphetamines extinguish the idiot light in your head that tells
you when you are tired, and hungry. The users end up like a car that has
been driven too far without oil.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

On May 6, 8:20*pm, Kate_G wrote:
"Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told CNSNews.com Thursday that, if it
were up to him, Americans would be completely free to smoke marijuana
and gamble on the Internet -- but they shouldn’t be allowed “total
freedom” in their financial decisions because those risky decisions
might adversely affect others."

Thank God it's not up to YOU Barney.

He flubbed his attempt at balancing the stock market and we have the
worst recession since 1929. Now this teabagging loser wants to
legalize online gambling??? Just saw on the news that there is to be a
rush to legalize Pot. *A real bonanza for new taxes.

*And then Barney can get his sissy boyfriends high before he
sodomizes *them.

"We’ve got anonymity, we’ve got secrecy, we’ve got availability 24-7”
in online gambling, Hills said. “I liken it to somebody with an
alcohol addiction coming home every night and the fridge being full of
beer, wine and vodka"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...PYYldTa0Q&refe....

hahahaha silly liberal. everybody knows the only thing americans have
a right to is guns.

Drug has potential to prevent alcoholics from relapsing
"Washington, July 31 (IANS) An experimental drug blocks euphoric feelings prompted by
drinking and could potentially prevent alcoholics from relapsing, after being tested
on mice. The next step will be to test the drug, CP 154,526, to see if it is safe for
humans. If it clears that hurdle, researchers will start human trials to determine if
the drug can prevent alcoholic relapse."

"Potential Drug Target For Treating Cocaine Abuse Found
A substance similar to a drug used in the treatment of Parkinson's disease blocks the
stimulating effects of cocaine and could potentially be used to develop drug therapy
for cocaine abuse, new research shows.

In an article published in the February 23, 2005, issue of The Journal of
Neuroscience, Jonathan Katz and his colleagues at the National Institute on Drug
Abuse (NIDA) report the results of experiments showing that mice treated with a
substance similar to the drug benztropine did not show any of the typical hyperactive
behavior when later injected with cocaine. This effect wore off after a day."

sooner or later something will work with meth addicts. Ingrid

On Thu, 07 May 2009 12:23:12 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
...and there is not a thing anyone could have done about it. Meth
addicts are usually incapable of getting off the drug and if they do
it is a constant battle for many years.

On May 6, 10:16*pm, RobertH wrote:
On May 6, 6:20 pm, Kate_G wrote:

“I liken it to somebody with an
alcohol addiction coming home every night and the fridge being full of
beer, wine and vodka"

So clearly then alcohol should be illegal, because some people can't
handle it. We've seen what damage it does to society. Alcohol should
be illegal. Why or why not.

Idiots.

I was subpoenaed this week as a witness to a hit and
run, district court. Cases before mine included a driving
instructor who had passed out after watching the playoffs
and enjoying a few beers. Officer found him asleep, his
car parked on the sidewalk. Following case had a
well-respected local businessman, apparently normally
a very well-behaved chap, who, while drunk and taken
into custody, resisted, and sank his teeth into several
officers.

I should have taken notes. I could have written
a hit new reality show.

On Sat, 09 May 2009 21:33:31 -0400, Sheila
wrote:

If you get your other knee replaced, will that be an end to the pain?

For me it was the beginning.

Kate_G wrote:
"Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told CNSNews.com Thursday that, if it
were up to him, Americans would be completely free to smoke marijuana
and gamble on the Internet -- but they shouldn’t be allowed “total
freedom” in their financial decisions because those risky decisions
might adversely affect others."

Thank God it's not up to YOU Barney.


He flubbed his attempt at balancing the stock market and we have the
worst recession since 1929. Now this teabagging loser wants to
legalize online gambling??? Just saw on the news that there is to be a
rush to legalize Pot. A real bonanza for new taxes.

And then Barney can get his sissy boyfriends high before he
sodomizes them.

Did you expect different from a lisping fag who likes young boys?

DD

"We’ve got anonymity, we’ve got secrecy, we’ve got availability 24-7”
in online gambling, Hills said. “I liken it to somebody with an
alcohol addiction coming home every night and the fridge being full of
beer, wine and vodka"


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...a0Q&refer=home

Phisherman wrote:
On Sat, 09 May 2009 21:33:31 -0400, Sheila
wrote:

If you get your other knee replaced, will that be an end to the pain?

For me it was the beginning.


I'm sorry to hear that.

--
Sheila
http://swdalton.com

On May 6, 6:20*pm, Kate_G wrote:
"Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told CNSNews.com Thursday that, if it
were up to him, Americans would be completely free to smoke marijuana
and gamble on the Internet -- but they shouldn’t be allowed “total
freedom” in their financial decisions because those risky decisions
might adversely affect others."

Thank God it's not up to YOU Barney.

He flubbed his attempt at balancing the stock market and we have the
worst recession since 1929. Now this teabagging loser wants to
legalize online gambling??? Just saw on the news that there is to be a
rush to legalize Pot. *A real bonanza for new taxes.

*And then Barney can get his sissy boyfriends high before he
sodomizes *them.

"We’ve got anonymity, we’ve got secrecy, we’ve got availability 24-7”
in online gambling, Hills said. “I liken it to somebody with an
alcohol addiction coming home every night and the fridge being full of
beer, wine and vodka"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...PYYldTa0Q&refe....

Troll-o-meter...2

As someone who has worked with emotionally disturbed people and then gone on to
become a scientists I am convinced there is enough scientific evidence to suggest
that 80% or more of our "character" is genetically determined, hardwired in at birth
and that it can only be slightly modified by "training". The latest evidence is for
autism:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0302090222.htm
anger, well at least it is a start:
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/...angergene.html
"While several research groups have found evidence indicating that the polymorphic
transcriptional control region of the serotonin transporter gene may contribute to
anger-related behavioral characteristics, the story is much more complex than the
feature story from Good Morning America leads us to believe. For instance, this
particular polymorphism has not only been implicated as a gene likely to predict
those more prone to anger, but other researchers have found countless other
correlations between one's 5-HTTLPR genotype and the tendency to be depressed,
develop schizophrenia, anorexia nervosa, and become suicidal among others."
alcoholism and addiction:
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine...olism-13639-1/


It wasnt very long ago that "bad mothers" were blamed for everything from SIDS to
autism to schizophrenia. We are gradually beginning to unravel the complexities of
the brain and how different genetics affects personality and mental health. Some day
we will be able to test for propensity to addiction, even sociopathy at birth and
have treatments so children and adults do not have to self medicate. Someday we will
be able to identify at risk and change the genes before birth. Nobody should have to
suffer mental pain any more than suffer physically from pain.

INgrid

On Sat, 09 May 2009 19:24:20 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
Yeah, it's called getting sober. If we have to take drugs to prevent
drug abuse we may as well just kill ourselves. My father drank right
through antibuse, the miracle drug for alcoholics in the seventies. I
know people who take these things and because the underlying issue is
never addressed with psychotherapy or self-examination through
rigorous honesty; well, they're doomed.

Addiction is a fault in character development for whatever reason.
It's not a disease.

I am not talking about antidepressants now. Depression IS a disease.
It is a mental disease having nothing to do with character
development

One last thing: This new Parkinson's drug causes intersting side
effects like compulsive gambling and sex "addiction."

In article ,
wrote:

As someone who has worked with emotionally disturbed people and then gone on
to
become a scientists I am convinced there is enough scientific evidence to
suggest
that 80% or more of our "character" is genetically determined, hardwired in
at birth
and that it can only be slightly modified by "training". The latest evidence
is for
autism:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0302090222.htm
anger, well at least it is a start:
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/...angergene.html
"While several research groups have found evidence indicating that the
polymorphic
transcriptional control region of the serotonin transporter gene may
contribute to
anger-related behavioral characteristics, the story is much more complex than
the
feature story from Good Morning America leads us to believe. For instance,
this
particular polymorphism has not only been implicated as a gene likely to
predict
those more prone to anger, but other researchers have found countless other
correlations between one's 5-HTTLPR genotype and the tendency to be
depressed,
develop schizophrenia, anorexia nervosa, and become suicidal among others."
alcoholism and addiction:
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine...olism-13639-1/

Looks like someone is looking for funding, probably from insurance
companies who want to be able to disqualify individuals who may cost
them money.

"Their team developed, validated, and applied a new genetic platform
that allowed them to generate the equivalent of more than 29 million
individual genotypes and to analyze 104,268 genetic variations from
unrelated alcohol-dependent and control individuals."

Yeah, right, and these will still need to be tested and verified.

Because there are genetic diseases caused by deficiencies in the DNA --
mRNA -- protein -- enzyme/hormone system, the theory is plausible nut
its' position on determinism still hasn't won the nature vs. nurture
controversy. As you said, it is a tendency, and may only be true for
groups and not indiviuals. To be touted as a reason for "schizophrenia,
anorexia nervosa, and become suicidal among others" is premature.
For the time being, it is speculation.
alcoholism and addiction


It wasnt very long ago that "bad mothers" were blamed for everything from
SIDS to
autism to schizophrenia. We are gradually beginning to unravel the
complexities of
the brain and how different genetics affects personality and mental health.
Some day
we will be able to test for propensity to addiction, even sociopathy at birth
and
have treatments so children and adults do not have to self medicate. Someday
we will
be able to identify at risk and change the genes before birth. Nobody should
have to
suffer mental pain any more than suffer physically from pain.

INgrid

On Sat, 09 May 2009 19:24:20 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
Yeah, it's called getting sober. If we have to take drugs to prevent
drug abuse we may as well just kill ourselves. My father drank right
through antibuse, the miracle drug for alcoholics in the seventies. I
know people who take these things and because the underlying issue is
never addressed with psychotherapy or self-examination through
rigorous honesty; well, they're doomed.

Addiction is a fault in character development for whatever reason.
It's not a disease.

I am not talking about antidepressants now. Depression IS a disease.
It is a mental disease having nothing to do with character
development

One last thing: This new Parkinson's drug causes intersting side
effects like compulsive gambling and sex "addiction."
When it come to sex, I must admit that, I to, am a-dickted.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

Someday
we will
be able to identify at risk and change the genes before birth. Nobody
should
have to
suffer mental pain any more than suffer physically from pain.

Scares me as who decides the military or some corporation with the
good of mankind on the agenda ? I believe our best attributes can come
from duress . Got pain fix it or try . I consider this as medicated
leprosy. AKA Death.

Bill who wonders if Steven Hawkins would make the cut.

..................

Ah! Sunflower

Ah Sunflower, weary of time,
* Who countest the steps of the sun;
Seeking after that sweet golden clime
* Where the traveller's journey is done;

Where the Youth pined away with desire,
* And the pale virgin shrouded in snow,
Arise from their graves, and aspire
* Where my Sunflower wishes to go!

William Blake

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

In article ,
wrote:

We are gradually beginning to unravel the complexities of
the brain and how different genetics affects personality and mental health.
Some day
we will be able to test for propensity to addiction, even sociopathy at birth
and
have treatments so children and adults do not have to self medicate. Someday
we will
be able to identify at risk and change the genes before birth. Nobody should
have to
suffer mental pain any more than suffer physically from pain.

This sounds a lot like eugenics:
the science of improving a human population by controlled breeding to
increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics.
Developed largely by Francis Galton as a method of improving the human
race, it fell into disfavor only after the perversion of its doctrines
by the Nazis.

What perversion could there be in breeding for a "master race"?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article ,
wrote:

As someone who has worked with emotionally disturbed people and then gone on
to
become a scientists I am convinced there is enough scientific evidence to
suggest
that 80% or more of our "character" is genetically determined, hardwired in
at birth
and that it can only be slightly modified by "training". The latest evidence
is for
autism:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0302090222.htm
anger, well at least it is a start:
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/...angergene.html
"While several research groups have found evidence indicating that the
polymorphic
transcriptional control region of the serotonin transporter gene may
contribute to
anger-related behavioral characteristics, the story is much more complex than
the
feature story from Good Morning America leads us to believe. For instance,
this
particular polymorphism has not only been implicated as a gene likely to
predict
those more prone to anger, but other researchers have found countless other
correlations between one's 5-HTTLPR genotype and the tendency to be
depressed,
develop schizophrenia, anorexia nervosa, and become suicidal among others."
alcoholism and addiction:
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine...olism-13639-1/

Looks like someone is looking for funding, probably from insurance
companies who want to be able to disqualify individuals who may cost
them money.

"Their team developed, validated, and applied a new genetic platform
that allowed them to generate the equivalent of more than 29 million
individual genotypes and to analyze 104,268 genetic variations from
unrelated alcohol-dependent and control individuals."

Yeah, right, and these will still need to be tested and verified.

Because there are genetic diseases caused by deficiencies in the DNA --
mRNA -- protein -- enzyme/hormone system, the theory is plausible but
its' position on determinism still hasn't won the nature vs. nurture
controversy. As you said, it is a tendency, and may only be true for
groups and not indiviuals. To be touted as a reason for "schizophrenia,
anorexia nervosa, and become suicidal among others" is premature.
For the time being, it is speculation.

See post on eugenics in this thread.
alcoholism and addiction


It wasnt very long ago that "bad mothers" were blamed for everything from
SIDS to
autism to schizophrenia. We are gradually beginning to unravel the
complexities of
the brain and how different genetics affects personality and mental health.
Some day
we will be able to test for propensity to addiction, even sociopathy at birth
and
have treatments so children and adults do not have to self medicate. Someday
we will
be able to identify at risk and change the genes before birth. Nobody should
have to
suffer mental pain any more than suffer physically from pain.

INgrid

On Sat, 09 May 2009 19:24:20 -0500, Jangchub wrote:
Yeah, it's called getting sober. If we have to take drugs to prevent
drug abuse we may as well just kill ourselves. My father drank right
through antibuse, the miracle drug for alcoholics in the seventies. I
know people who take these things and because the underlying issue is
never addressed with psychotherapy or self-examination through
rigorous honesty; well, they're doomed.

Addiction is a fault in character development for whatever reason.
It's not a disease.

I am not talking about antidepressants now. Depression IS a disease.
It is a mental disease having nothing to do with character
development

One last thing: This new Parkinson's drug causes intersting side
effects like compulsive gambling and sex "addiction."
When it come to sex, I must admit that, I to, am a-dickted.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

In article ,
Sheila wrote:

Saw the movie "Milk" tonight. Great civil rights movie.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html