On Jul 1, 6:31*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Thanks for the field report. Maybe it does last a while?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Harry K" wrote in message

...

I laid a "temporary line" some 200 ft with a 50' side branch
with
mostly 3/4" PVC (white) on top of the ground to water newly
planted
trees in 1977. *Pulled it about 15 years later. *Had a few
leaks each
spring but fittings are very cheap and patching is nothing
but a
hacksaw and tube of glue. *Currently using pieces of that
same pipe
for another 'temporary' line to bypass a busted frost free
hydrant
(can't replace without digging through a mass of tree
roots). *That
lien is also above ground and only needed one patch this
spring
(usually there are several). * Line has been in place over
10 years.

Harry K

It for sure gets brittle but doesn't seem to bother as long as it
isn't moved. Brittleness shows when it breaks due to frost, fractures
propagate down the line for several feet at times. I would probably
go with black poly if I didn't have the stock of PVC. I think poly
stands freezing a bit better.

Harry K

On Jul 1, 5:37*pm, SMS wrote:
On 7/1/2011 5:23 PM, Bob F wrote:





Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700,
wrote:

On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote:

Any ideas of what I should look for, *or use ? *Any general ideas
of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ?

Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted.

Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to
Home Depot or Lowe's.

For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause
lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by
machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells
tubing in spools of several hundred feet. *You can buy 300' rolls of
1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...rrigation/dp/B....

Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed.

That's poly, not PVC.

I would definitely avoid the poly unless he wants to be replacing it
every couple of years.

If you glue couplers properly there will be no leaks.

It's UV deterioration that he needs to worry about. When PVC is
installed exposed to the sun it needs to be painted.

Flexible PVC would also work, but it's not intended to be under pressure
all the time, and it's for non-potable water. 100' lengths. It's pretty
expensive though. It'd be the easiest to install.

I often see very long runs of pipe in state parks where they are running
water to a campground. It's always iron pipe.

http://flexpvc.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I ran 1" PVC about a 1/4 mile buried in 1976. Still in service today
with no leaks. Same for all my sprinkler lines. Only leak I have had
was one fitting where I made the misstake of using a female PVC/male
Iron fitting. NEVER do that! Always use a malepvc/female iron. Much
fun as it broke in the middle of winter and I had to shut off the the
entire line until spring so I could dig it up.

Harry K

On Jul 1, 9:58*am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

wrote:
On Jun 30, 9:12 am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:22:08 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.

Why not? Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter
matters.

Because friction in the pipe will reduce pressure by a bunch.

A "bunch"... is that universally recognized scientific nomenclature?
Internal turbulence does not occur to any appreciable degree in
typical hard pipe, especially not with smooth plastic irrigation
tubing. *Fire hose is coarsely woven cloth so is rough and does cause
turbulence but still reduction in volume is negligible considering the
very high pressure pumps used for fire fighting... were it presenting
a water volume problem you could bet your bippee that fire fighters
would use something else. *I can't imagine anyone using fire hose to
water their garden. *However gals like fire fighters watering their
gardens because of their big rough hoses with all their volume and
high pressure... and especially how they fold up so neatly for storage
in their drawers. LOL-LOL

Stretch out 500 ft of hose under 60psi and see what you have at the
end when the water is running.

Harry K

On Jun 30, 8:36*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.

it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Didn't know you could even buy w5/8" polyi or pvc. That's mighty
small hole to push water that far. There is a reason why plumbing
tables increase pipe size for distance.

Harry K

On Jul 1, 7:16*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/1/2011 8:28 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've seen 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4. What other sizes have you
found, for garden hose?

it also comes in 1"

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

I hardly think anyone would classify a 1" hose as a 'garden hose'.

Harry K

On 7/1/2011 9:52 PM, Harry K wrote:

I ran 1" PVC about a 1/4 mile buried in 1976. Still in service today
with no leaks. Same for all my sprinkler lines. Only leak I have had
was one fitting where I made the misstake of using a female PVC/male
Iron fitting. NEVER do that! Always use a malepvc/female iron. Much
fun as it broke in the middle of winter and I had to shut off the the
entire line until spring so I could dig it up.

PVC is really the only good option here. It's very cheap, 500' of 1"
would probably cost under $200 with all the couplings and glue,
depending on where it is all purchased. It can be painted for sun
protection if the o.p. doesn't want to bury it.

On Jul 1, 12:58*pm, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

wrote:
On Jun 30, 9:12 am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:22:08 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.

Why not? Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter
matters.

Because friction in the pipe will reduce pressure by a bunch.

A "bunch"... is that universally recognized scientific nomenclature?
Internal turbulence does not occur to any appreciable degree in
typical hard pipe, especially not with smooth plastic irrigation
tubing. *Fire hose is coarsely woven cloth so is rough and does cause
turbulence but still reduction in volume is negligible considering the
very high pressure pumps used for fire fighting... were it presenting
a water volume problem you could bet your bippee that fire fighters
would use something else. *I can't imagine anyone using fire hose to
water their garden. *However gals like fire fighters watering their
gardens because of their big rough hoses with all their volume and
high pressure... and especially how they fold up so neatly for storage
in their drawers. LOL-LOL

I hook up 50 ft of 5/8" garden hose to the sill cock at my house and
measure the water that flows out over 1 minute. I do the same thing
with 500 ft of the same hose. According to what you're claiming when
I measure it over 1 minute, the same amount of water will flow. You
have much experience here on planet Earth?

James wrote:
Thanks David, and the others. First, I don't know what a "nym" is,
but sorry....

You started of as James Nipper now you are just James


My faucets at the cabin are based on the cabin water system, which is
a well, with a pressure tank in the basement. I get good pressure (60
psi), and the poly pipe will not go uphill.

As for drilling a new well, come on guys, I am talking about watering
a few plants and bushes, I just dont' want to constantly drag hoses
around. That is all that this is about. I do appreciate all the
help, and I think that the polypipe is my best bet, although David's
last comments may make me consider smaller, perhaps 3/4 inch. BTW, I
don't need much pressure at the end, just enough to do some
light watering.
James

I was suggesting that 1" could be too small not too big. 3/4" will flatten
and kink more than 1" and has about half the capacity. It's the area of the
pipe cross section that is important so the capacity varies as the square of
the diameter. Go see that irrigation specialist.

D

I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about
500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the
current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? (The main
line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). Whatever I use,
I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could
get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something.

Investigate underground piping, and associated valves. There is one that
opens a valve in the ground below freezing level, and when the water is
turned off, drains the water in the stand pipe to keep it from freezing. No
need to totally drain the lines if you put them in deep enough. Not sure of
their name, but I have seen lots of them in freezing country. They are red,
and have a crooked handle top.

Steve

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:52:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Jul 1, 5:37*pm, SMS wrote:
On 7/1/2011 5:23 PM, Bob F wrote:





Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700,
wrote:

On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote:

Any ideas of what I should look for, *or use ? *Any general ideas
of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ?

Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted.

Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to
Home Depot or Lowe's.

For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause
lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by
machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells
tubing in spools of several hundred feet. *You can buy 300' rolls of
1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...rrigation/dp/B...

Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed.

That's poly, not PVC.

I would definitely avoid the poly unless he wants to be replacing it
every couple of years.

If you glue couplers properly there will be no leaks.

It's UV deterioration that he needs to worry about. When PVC is
installed exposed to the sun it needs to be painted.

Flexible PVC would also work, but it's not intended to be under pressure
all the time, and it's for non-potable water. 100' lengths. It's pretty
expensive though. It'd be the easiest to install.

I often see very long runs of pipe in state parks where they are running
water to a campground. It's always iron pipe.

http://flexpvc.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I ran 1" PVC about a 1/4 mile buried in 1976. Still in service today
with no leaks. Same for all my sprinkler lines. Only leak I have had
was one fitting where I made the misstake of using a female PVC/male
Iron fitting. NEVER do that! Always use a malepvc/female iron. Much
fun as it broke in the middle of winter and I had to shut off the the
entire line until spring so I could dig it up.

Where do you live that you're irrigating in winter... and if you live
in a warm clime where one irrigates all year WTF mention winter, and
if it's warm enough to irrigate WTF would you need to wait until
spring to dig... are you fibbing? From reading your posts you're just
making it ALL up... "iron" irrigation fittings your ass.

On Jul 2, 3:30*am, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
James wrote:
Thanks David, and the others. *First, I don't know what a *"nym" is,
but sorry....

You started of as James Nipper now you are just James



My faucets at the cabin are based on the cabin water system, which is
a well, with a pressure tank in the basement. *I get good pressure (60
psi), and the poly pipe will not go uphill.

As for drilling a new well, come on guys, I am talking about watering
a few plants and bushes, I just dont' want to constantly drag hoses
around. That is all that this is about. * I do appreciate all the
help, and I think that the polypipe is my best bet, although David's
last comments may make me consider smaller, perhaps *3/4 *inch. * BTW, I
don't need much pressure at the end, just enough to do some
light watering.
James

I was suggesting that 1" could be too small not too big. *3/4" will flatten
and kink more than 1" and has about half the capacity. *It's the area of the
pipe cross section that is important so the capacity varies as the square of
the diameter. *Go see that irrigation specialist.

D

Agree that 1" is the minimum for the length of run he's
working on. No reason to use anything smaller, the 1"
is cheap and readily available.

On Jul 2, 7:14*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about
500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the
current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? (The main
line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). Whatever I use,
I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could
get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something..

Investigate underground piping, and associated valves. *There is one that
opens a valve in the ground below freezing level, and when the water is
turned off, drains the water in the stand pipe to keep it from freezing. *No
need to totally drain the lines if you put them in deep enough. *Not sure of
their name, but I have seen lots of them in freezing country. *They are red,
and have a crooked handle top.

Steve

That would be one hell of a project, running pipe below the frost line
through mostly wooded areas. Around here, even if it's just open
space, poly pipe is just pulled to bury it, almost never buried 3 ft
deep, for obvious reasons. You just blow it out with a compressor
at the end of the season. That's what is done with almost all the
lawn irrigation systems. With some small percentage the pitch
allows for self-draining.

On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:16:27 -0700, SMS
wrote:

On 7/1/2011 9:52 PM, Harry K wrote:

I ran 1" PVC about a 1/4 mile buried in 1976. Still in service today
with no leaks. Same for all my sprinkler lines. Only leak I have had
was one fitting where I made the misstake of using a female PVC/male
Iron fitting. NEVER do that! Always use a malepvc/female iron. Much
fun as it broke in the middle of winter and I had to shut off the the
entire line until spring so I could dig it up.

PVC is really the only good option here. It's very cheap, 500' of 1"
would probably cost under $200 with all the couplings and glue,
depending on where it is all purchased. It can be painted for sun
protection if the o.p. doesn't want to bury it.

Being so "cheap"inexpensive (as you say) I can't imagine anyone
painting plastic tubing rather than occasionally replacing a
portion... and it's not like it's going to deteriorate from UV within
a short time... if not abused by kinking and driving vehicles over PVC
it will last well over 10 years outdoors (no one paints their PVC drip
systems either).

And no one would use glue for an irrigation system, every
professionally installed system I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of
them and installed several myself, holds it all together with
stainless steel crimp clamps, not screw type hose clamps, they use a
stainless steel ring and crimping tool (fast, inexpensive, and neat -
screw type hose clamps are expensive, difficult to work in dirt, and
present a hazard due to the loose end). Gluing makes it difficult to
make changes/repairs.
http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/St...amps-s/189.htm

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:55:00 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Jul 1, 9:58*am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

wrote:
On Jun 30, 9:12 am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:22:08 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.

Why not? Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter
matters.

Because friction in the pipe will reduce pressure by a bunch.

A "bunch"... is that universally recognized scientific nomenclature?
Internal turbulence does not occur to any appreciable degree in
typical hard pipe, especially not with smooth plastic irrigation
tubing. *Fire hose is coarsely woven cloth so is rough and does cause
turbulence but still reduction in volume is negligible considering the
very high pressure pumps used for fire fighting... were it presenting
a water volume problem you could bet your bippee that fire fighters
would use something else. *I can't imagine anyone using fire hose to
water their garden. *However gals like fire fighters watering their
gardens because of their big rough hoses with all their volume and
high pressure... and especially how they fold up so neatly for storage
in their drawers. LOL-LOL

Stretch out 500 ft of hose under 60psi and see what you have at the
end when the water is running.

I've done that occasionally... just as much volume exits 100' 200',
300' 400' as 500' or more, so long as the hose is not kinked/flattened
or otherwise constricted or run up hill whatever volume enters
exits... I'm positive you've never actually done what you suggest,
except tinkling with your tiny 2" fuse. What people don't realize is
that their hose bib valve is what dictates volume.. if your hose bib
is supplied by 1/2" copper using 5/8" hose won't supply any more
volume than a 1/2" hose, except for the first couple seconds untill
the little more volume in the larger hose is expelled, kinda like the
first burst or pressure from a pressurized hose laying out in the hot
sun... a very brief surge. And most folks do have 1/2" domestic water
plumbing in their homes to each outlet... then the only benefits of
using 5/8' garden hose is that its larger diameter and wall thickness
is much less prone to kinking/collapsing and has a longer life than
1/2" hose. It's silly to buy 3/4" garden hose for the typical
residence, it offers no benefit, it won't produce more volume and will
be heavy/clumsy, and will quickly fill your hose reel, not to mention
being more costly for nothing... 3/4" hose probably can't be coiled
into a small enough diameter to fit the typical home owner's hose reel
anyway... 3/4' hose is meant for commercial applications. One can
increase pressure at the discharge by limiting exit diameter, by
adjusting a nozzle, but that reduces volume... volume can't be
increased past what is supplied from the source. There is only so
much volume available from the typical residential water supply,
that's why sprinker systems are installed with several zones...
without separate zones if all the heads were run at once they'd
dribble n' drip like your widdle impotent peepee. It's plain
silliness installing a grid of piping over a six acre property and
then supply it from a residential well, one would still need to walk
about opening one valve at a time and stand there like a putz watering
for however long before moving on to the next area. MUCH easier
hauling water to the various plants... leave a bucket with a hole in
it by each plant, and just refill from your hauled buckets as needed,
less than 30 seconds per plant. Many large commercial nurserys use
this system, wastes far, FAR less water... many sink a few 3' lenghts
of 4" perforated poly pipe into the ground around each newly planted
sapling, then periodically pass by hauling a water tank with watering
wand in hand, don't even need to get down from the tractor to fill the
irrigators.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:56:51 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Jun 30, 8:36*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose?

A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water.

it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Didn't know you could even buy w5/8" polyi or pvc. That's mighty
small hole to push water that far. There is a reason why plumbing
tables increase pipe size for distance.

Nope, plumbing tables increase pipe diameter by how many taps branch
off... there is no benefit to increasing diameter for just point to
point. You obviously don't own your own home.