I am a Product Designer at the University of Huddersfield, England. I am currently designing a rotating compost tumbler and was wondering if any of you have any advice for me when it comes to designing one. Any experiences, both bad or good will be much appreciated. Thanks!

Ferg123 wrote:
I am a Product Designer at the University of Huddersfield, England. I
am currently designing a rotating compost tumbler and was wondering
if any of you have any advice for me when it comes to designing one.
Any experiences, both bad or good will be much appreciated. Thanks!

You don't say if it will be manual or powered, domestic or commercial.

It will be out in the weather and subject to all sorts of chemistry so
materials will have to be durable. Also you need to have a volume of
material sufficient for the pile to heat up, the weight will be considerable
and tend to settle to one side making it hard to turn, which suggest a
strong frame and barrel, which will add to the weight. Do a lot of testing,
if it takes two strong men or a motor and gear-box to turn then forget it
for domestic use.

Getting it to be durable, large enough and not too expensive to be
affordable to the average gardener is a three-way compromise that will be
very hard to solve if not impossible.

David

Is it cheaper to make your own rather than just buy one?

The compost bin will be manual and for domestic use.
I will be investigating the idea of making it gear driven to aid with the turning as I see this as one of the major issues.
The other issue of having sufficient material in order to it to decompose effectively is one which I feel needs research and testing.
The problem I have highlighted from all other 'compost tumblers' is that when you mix the bin you can have a certain amolunt of it which is ready to use on the garden and some of it can be only a few days old. This would mean the user needs to wait for the entire heap to be ready before they can use it. I am looking into making the bin sectional for this purpose.
Thanks for your input David, good to get gardener's opinions after all you are the target market!
Fearghal

gennylee writes:

Ferg123;951386 Wrote:
I am a Product Designer at the University of Huddersfield, England. I am
currently designing a rotating compost tumbler and was wondering if any
of you have any advice for me when it comes to designing one. Any
experiences, both bad or good will be much appreciated. Thanks!

Is it cheaper to make your own rather than just buy one?

I find it a lot cheaper to make my own.

All I do is put the compost in a pile.
A pile way too large to fit in any bin.

As for some kind of large rotating bin, no thanks.
I'd spend all winter looking out the window seeing
a large plastic monstrosity.

--
Dan Espen

I find it a lot cheaper to make my own.

All I do is put the compost in a pile.
A pile way too large to fit in any bin.

As for some kind of large rotating bin, no thanks.
I'd spend all winter looking out the window seeing
a large plastic monstrosity.

--
Dan Espen[/quote]

As a product designer, my aim is to design a product which overcomes problems with certain tasks.
When I researched composting in the garden, several issues were highlighted:
-Some foods which when composted attract Rodents (Eggshells for example).
-In the heat of summer, compost heaps can give off bad odours.
-the task of mixing compost with a spade or fork can be difficult for some people such as the elderly or the less mobile.
I found the idea of making a rotating bin interesting as it means rodents can not get near the waste, the odours are contained within a sealed container and it reduces the energy needed to turn the compost (if designed properly).

I understand the issue of a plastic monstrosity but if aesthetically suited to the garden I feel it could be a potentially popular product.

Thanks Dan, really appreciate people giving their input

Dan Espen wrote:
gennylee writes:
Ferg123 wrote:
I am a Product Designer at the University of Huddersfield, England. I am
currently designing a rotating compost tumbler and was wondering if any
of you have any advice for me when it comes to designing one. Any
experiences, both bad or good will be much appreciated. Thanks!

Is it cheaper to make your own rather than just buy one?

I find it a lot cheaper to make my own.

All I do is put the compost in a pile.
A pile way too large to fit in any bin.

As for some kind of large rotating bin, no thanks.
I'd spend all winter looking out the window seeing
a large plastic monstrosity.

It's silly to design a new composter, there are already way too many
on the market, most of which are J U N K.

Tumblers don't compost anyway, at best they ferment and stink. Organic
materials MUST be in contact with the earth to compost.
Tumblers are as gimmick, began for those who live on small lots and
have neighbor problems... all composters attract critters, even
tumblers.

My neighbor paid $800 for a gigantic plastic tumbler, compartmentised
and gear driven, not only didn't it compost it began to fall apart
after a few days... even half full organic materials are too heavy,
plastic gears cracked first, then as the temperatures here began to
drop below freezing the entire thing began to break apart.
This POS:
http://www.wagle.com/composters/comp...s-50100-gallon

The next season my neighbor finally bought the composter I originally
recommended, the one I've been using for some 15 years, works very
well and is still good as new. I've recommended this one to several
people, many have two and even three going. I like how when
composting is completed I can just lift it off... I never have to stir
or add any accelereator, not even water, and I don't bother with the
clean out openings, I just lift the entire thing and move it over some
to a new location. With each emptying it produces about 75 gallons of
beautiful sweet smelling compost, fully composted. I don't recommend
using the rodent screen. Over time the prices for these things have
risen dramatically, 15 years ago I paid under $40 for mine, this is
the only composter I've seen with a 25 year warranty, it's built like
a tank:
http://www.wagle.com/composters/comp...ost-bin-85-gal

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:02:48 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

As for some kind of large rotating bin, no thanks.
I'd spend all winter looking out the window seeing
a large plastic monstrosity.

Situate it on the OTHER side of your barn or garden windbreaks.
Problem solved! g

I have a couple of large piles (which include yet-to-be shredded tree
branches), plus a 50 gallon drum tumbler (that isn't a mass produced
type). The tumbler works quite effectively.

To the OP - while I've got plenty of upper body strength and have no
troubles turning my compost bin when full, perhaps a footpedal
mechanism (think treadle sewing machine) would be good - it may be
easier for some people to tromp their weight down on a pedal plate, so
long as it's situated such that they can get to it

If the composter is able to be emptied at something above ground
level, it'd be possible to dump the contents into a wheelbarrow to
move it to where it might be used - so perhaps plan for the height of
the chute (and access to same) to accomodate some standard sizes of
wheelbarrows. Alternately, consider something which you can dump
easily (and without making a mess) into a 5 gallon bucket (just how
full would be up to the discretion of the gardener)..

Sean Straw writes:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:02:48 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

As for some kind of large rotating bin, no thanks.
I'd spend all winter looking out the window seeing
a large plastic monstrosity.

Situate it on the OTHER side of your barn or garden windbreaks.
Problem solved! g

Barn?

Here in the NJ suburbs I'd guess most people can see every inch
of their yard from the house. Of course if you're already staring
at a shed then you have a place behind it to put more man made clutter.

I think Brooklyn has a good point about the compost being in contact
with the ground. My pile is loaded with worms. I don't see how that
could happen with a tumbler above the ground. The worms won't get in
in the first place and when they do, no matter how deep they burrow,
it's going to still be cold.

The bins Brooklyn recommends are a step in the right direction,
but I question the need to actually enclose the compost. The
web site mentions keeping kids out. Where's the fun in that?

Anyway, I'd need about a dozen of them.

--
Dan Espen

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:54:57 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

Sean Straw writes:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:02:48 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

As for some kind of large rotating bin, no thanks.
I'd spend all winter looking out the window seeing
a large plastic monstrosity.

Situate it on the OTHER side of your barn or garden windbreaks.
Problem solved! g

Barn?

Here in the NJ suburbs I'd guess most people can see every inch
of their yard from the house. Of course if you're already staring
at a shed then you have a place behind it to put more man made clutter.

I think Brooklyn has a good point about the compost being in contact
with the ground. My pile is loaded with worms. I don't see how that
could happen with a tumbler above the ground. The worms won't get in
in the first place and when they do, no matter how deep they burrow,
it's going to still be cold.

If worms are added they won't live long if they can't return to the
earth at will... and it's the microscopic organisms that do the
composting... what worms do is supply microrganisms in their castings.

The bins Brooklyn recommends are a step in the right direction,
but I question the need to actually enclose the compost.

Being of a dark color and enclosed keeps temperature inside the
compost pile higher longer into night and cold seasons, actually
doubles the rate of composting.

Anyway, I'd need about a dozen of them.

Most folks who compost larger volumes maintain a pre-compost pile
where organic material is chopped up finely, dried, and decayed so it
will take up far less volume in the composter. Composting is nothing
more than accelerated topsoil production. It takes a hundred years to
produce one inch of top soil on a forest floor. When composting is
managed correctly one of those composters can accomodate a huge volume
of organic material.

On Feb 20, 8:40*am, Ferg123
wrote:
I am a Product Designer at the University of Huddersfield, England. I am
currently designing a rotating compost tumbler and was wondering if any
of you have any advice for me when it comes to designing one. Any
experiences, both bad or good will be much appreciated. Thanks!

--
Ferg123

Google for Kambha and dig around in the many articles such as here
http://www.ecowalkthetalk.com/blog/2...ontainer-pots/
.. Maybe consider making them out of mushroom materials such as he
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0727121933.htm or some
other type resin or hypertufa like material.

There are enough tumblers which are way overpriced for any added
benefits

On Feb 21, 12:22*pm, Gunner wrote:
On Feb 20, 8:40*am, Ferg123
wrote:

I am a Product Designer at the University of Huddersfield, England. I am
currently designing a rotating compost tumbler and was wondering if any
of you have any advice for me when it comes to designing one. Any
experiences, both bad or good will be much appreciated. Thanks!

--
Ferg123

*Google for Kambha and dig around in the many articles such as herehttp://www.ecowalkthetalk.com/blog/2010/07/21/part-1-how-to-compost-a...
. *Maybe consider making them out of mushroom materials such as hehttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...27121933.htmor some
other type resin or hypertufa like material.

There are enough tumblers which are way overpriced for any added
benefits

Let me add for those that like to read ahead, look at the part 2 he
http://www.ecowalkthetalk.com/blog/2...he-daily-dump/

Ferg123 writes:

As a product designer, my aim is to design a product which overcomes
problems with certain tasks.
When I researched composting in the garden, several issues were
highlighted:
-Some foods which when composted attract Rodents (Eggshells for
example).

Discussed recently here.
Don't put meat in the compost. I'm less convinced about
eggshells.

-In the heat of summer, compost heaps can give off bad odours.

Not true. (Unless you're putting meat in the compost.)

-the task of mixing compost with a spade or fork can be difficult for some
people such as the elderly or the less mobile.

Absolutely. I'm 66 and staying young turning a really massive pile
by hand. Actually, I dig and sift it through a screen. Once a year.
Anything not broken down yet goes back in the pile.

I found the idea of making a rotating bin interesting as it means rodents
can not get near the waste, the odours are contained within a sealed
container and it reduces the energy needed to turn the compost (if
designed properly).

There are no odors (IMO) but I don't think a bin will keep the odors
in. I wouldn't expect a bin to be airtight.

I understand the issue of a plastic monstrosity but if aesthetically
suited to the garden I feel it could be a potentially popular product.

I think color might help, but not green. At least in my case, in the
summer the compost is fully hidden by the trees. It's in the winter
that I see it. I've put a few holly seedlings in the yard with the
idea of hiding the pile even in the winter. I'd want any bin to be
black or brown.

Thanks Dan, really appreciate people giving their input

Even negative input, I hope.

--
Dan Espen

On Feb 21, 2:43*pm, Dan Espen wrote:
Ferg123 writes:
As a product designer, my aim is to design a product which overcomes
problems with certain tasks.
When I researched composting in the garden, several issues were
highlighted:
-Some foods which *when composted attract Rodents (Eggshells for
example).

Discussed recently here.
Don't put meat in the compost. * I'm less convinced about
eggshells.

-In the heat of summer, compost heaps can give off bad odours.

Not true. *(Unless you're putting meat in the compost.)

-the task of mixing compost with a spade or fork can be difficult for some
people such as the elderly or the less mobile.

Absolutely. *I'm 66 and staying young turning a really massive pile
by hand. *Actually, I dig and sift it through a screen. *Once a year.
Anything not broken down yet goes back in the pile.

I found the idea of making a rotating bin interesting as it means rodents
can not get near the waste, the odours are contained within a sealed
container and it reduces the energy needed to turn the compost (if
designed properly).

There are no odors (IMO) but I don't think a bin will keep the odors
in. *I wouldn't expect a bin to be airtight.

I understand the issue of a plastic monstrosity but if aesthetically
suited to the garden I feel it could be a potentially popular product.

I think color might help, but not green. *At least in my case, in the
summer the compost is fully hidden by the trees. *It's in the winter
that I see it. *I've put a few holly seedlings in the yard with the
idea of hiding the pile even in the winter. *I'd want any bin to be
black or brown.

Thanks Dan, really appreciate people giving their input

Even negative input, I hope.

--
Dan Espen

***This is a general reply, not just to Dan, about why I just quit
composting. Excuse detailed post.

Last year or so, some neighbors and I bought a bin sold for $40
(discounted) by the City - this is So. Calif Coastal. It consisted
of four square plastic components that fit into each other vertically
(and could be taken apart individually). The idea was to fill it up,
water properly, etc. and when deemed appropriate, reverse the whole
thing by removing the top component, placing it elsewhere,
pitchforking its content into the top one which is now the bottom one,
et. seq. You would then arrive at the content of the former bottom
square, which would in theory be ready-to-use compost. (There must be
an easier way to describe this?)

I did it once or twice, but found it a pain; not great results. Also,
my gardener kept putting in too much stuff, causing the composter to
bulge at the seams.

Now the City has announced that food waste may be added to the yard
waste bins. Result should be will be that their next quarterly free
distribution of
(lovely, fine-textured compost) will be even richer because of the
food waste.

So I have dismantled the bin and saved the little that looks something
like compost. I'll clean it out, put on Craigs List, see who bites.

Looking back over this and the previous composter, I probably should
have just made a pile at the back of the garden and turned
periodically w/pitchfork.

Anybody else think their municipality would set up such a program?

HB

Higgs Boson writes:

Now the City has announced that food waste may be added to the yard
waste bins. Result should be will be that their next quarterly free
distribution of
(lovely, fine-textured compost) will be even richer because of the
food waste.

So I have dismantled the bin and saved the little that looks something
like compost. I'll clean it out, put on Craigs List, see who bites.

Looking back over this and the previous composter, I probably should
have just made a pile at the back of the garden and turned
periodically w/pitchfork.

Anybody else think their municipality would set up such a program?

Ours collects branches twice a year but only collects yard waste
that has been placed in large paper bags that you must purchase.

How I'm supposed to fill about 40 of these large bags per year
is a mystery. I'd need some kind of mulcher and a lot of time.

Most of my neighbors use yard services.

I just create a big pile and late in August run it through a
framed screen. It ends up on the lawn or in a flower bed.
(Where I found the leaves in the first place.)

--
Dan Espen