On 10/06/2014 1:12 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

It is simply impossible to get enough calories without grains, tubers
and bananas, all high carb foods. Despite all its drawbacks we simply
cannot give up farming and become hunter-gatherers,

Hunter-gatherers would have gorged on any form of food that was abundant
if they could get their hands on it regardless of whether it was a carb
or a protein so I find it odd that anyone would try to turn back the
food clock.

we cannot turn the
clock back 10,000 years and specifically we cannot give up farming
grain. How do you think the green revolution saved hundreds of millions
from starvation?

Please don't rabbit on about T2 diabetes, a disease of the people of
rich countries who over eat and under excercise, focus on this one
question.

How do you feed the world for the next 50 years without heavy reliance
on farming and consuming high carb crops?

In case you missed it I repeat: please don't rabbit on about T2
diabetes, a disease of the people of rich countries who over eat and
under excercise, focus on this one question.

Yes. I find it amazing how little exercise seems to be done these days
in comparison to how much intake of chow there is in our modern
societies. The paleo walking regime would be a good thing to resurrect.
Or even a Victorian walking regime.

There is an innitiative of the Qld health dept that has gone round the
country as a Healthy Heart program. It's called something like
"10,000steps" and the goal is to walk 10,000 steps each day. I put on a
pedometer and did over 10,000 steps on a normal day of doing housework,
gardening and animal care. I did 2 lots of baking in addition to the
meals, did a bit of gardening, did 2 loads of washing and hung them out
on the line and then brought the clothes in when they were dry and put
them away. I did a bit of vacuuming and visited the chooks twice to let
them out, feed and water them, collect the eggs and then lock them up
for the night. Just an average day for me but I wonder what a lazy
sloth step count would be.

Todd wrote:
On 06/09/2014 08:12 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Speaking of hurting you, those same enterprising humans also
increased the carbohydrate levels of potatoes to unnatural
levels not found it nature. You are much more likely to get
T2 Diabetes from them (1 out 6 chance) than to get nightshade
poisoning.

This is where your religion gets so weird and impractical.

Roughly 2/3 of food calories world wide is carbohydrates and we can't
give everybody enough to eat as it is. If we went back to "natural'
levels of carbohydrate intake (yet to be defined) what is the chance
that most of the world would starve very quickly? I accept that
there are too many humans but don't you think this method of
population reduction is rather harsh?

It is simply impossible to get enough calories without grains, tubers
and bananas, all high carb foods. Despite all its drawbacks we
simply cannot give up farming and become hunter-gatherers, we cannot
turn the clock back 10,000 years and specifically we cannot give up
farming grain. How do you think the green revolution saved hundreds
of millions from starvation?

Please don't rabbit on about T2 diabetes, a disease of the people of
rich countries who over eat and under excercise, focus on this one
question.

How do you feed the world for the next 50 years without heavy
reliance on farming and consuming high carb crops?

In case you missed it I repeat: please don't rabbit on about T2
diabetes, a disease of the people of rich countries who over eat and
under excercise, focus on this one question.

David

David!

Where in the world are you getting this bull shit.
T2 Diabetes is all over the world, rich or poor.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=philippines+diabetes

http://www.charantia.com/about-diabetes/
The Philippines ranks 10th among countries with
the highest diabetes incidence worldwide*. An estimated
6 Million Filipinos know they have diabetes. Another
6 Million Filipinos have diabetes but do not know
they have it. Health experts believe many more have
impaired glucose tolerance (IGT) and are prone to diabetes.

And, that was only one of the hits.

And if you want other countries, try:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=diabetes+in+the+third+world

http://www.cehjournal.org/article/di...world-problem/

THIS IS A WORLD WIDE EPIDEMIC!

The only difference between rich and poor is the test equipment.
I will let you guess how they test it in poor countries. (Hint:
your kidneys spill glucose at ~160 mg/Dl. World's second worst
job.)

The problem is that carbs are addictive and cheap. The idea
that Diabetes is caused by "over eat and under exercise"
is absolute rubbish. They probably move 20 times as much
as I do in a day over in the Philippines and eat a hell of
a lot less. BUT SURPRISE! THEY EAT RICE!

I eat lots of plants. All low carb plants. ALL HAVE BEEN
FARMED. ALL HAVE BEEN HYBRIDIZED. The idea is to match
what our ancestors ate, not to become them. (Okay, growing
it yourself or catching it yourself is fun. Good exercise too.)

Farmers need to hybridize the fat up and the carbs down.
This will be what finally solves the World Wide Diabetes
EPIDEMIC. But, they will have to get past a lot of
special interests to do it. "over eat and under exercise"
is just the special interests looking guilty say, "Gee Wiz,
how did that happen?"

With one out of six of us going to be injured by this
(perhaps one out of three in the near future), yes,
I will warn others. It is the decent thing to do.
I will also let others that have already been injured
know how they can live a normal life, Diabetes and drug
free. Also the decent thing to do.

For people who are not already injured, a half a potato
here and there won't hurt anyone. Just watch yourself.
Eat a variety of food in balance. And, eschew foods that
are full of chemicals and have four times the amount of
carbs found in nature.

THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER PLANTS TO EAT! Yummy ones too,
especially after your satiation switch normalizes and
you get your sense of taste back. I am looking forward
to a ton of them this harvest! If I get good at this,
maybe I will freeze or bottle some.

DRUG AND ALLOPATH FREE SINCE SEPTEMBER 2013!

-T


Sorry folks I couldn't resist the temptation. I know it's puerile, like
tapping on the cage in the reptile house. Todd didn't disappoint, struck out
like an Eastern Brown in an ants nest. I'll try not to do it again. He
might hurt his nose on the glass.

David

"David Hare-Scott" writes:
Sorry folks I couldn't resist the temptation. I know it's puerile,
like tapping on the cage in the reptile house. Todd didn't disappoint,
struck out like an Eastern Brown in an ants nest. I'll try not to do
it again. He might hurt his nose on the glass.

Yep.

What's easier to accept:

I got poisoned by the food industry, or,
I ate too much and I got sick.

--
Dan Espen

In article
(Dan.Espen) writes:
"David Hare-Scott" writes:
Sorry folks I couldn't resist the temptation. I know it's puerile,
like tapping on the cage in the reptile house. Todd didn't disappoint,
struck out like an Eastern Brown in an ants nest. I'll try not to do
it again. He might hurt his nose on the glass.

Yep.

What's easier to accept:

I got poisoned by the food industry, or,
I ate too much and I got sick.

The conspiracy/victim thing is what gets to me. There is no denying
that there is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about
diet. There always has been, and probably always will be. But
taking things to the point where potato farmers are out to poison
us all is just silly.

Thinking about diabetes and convenience foods tends to take my mind
to all the 20th century futurists (and fiction authors) who predicted
by now we'd drop food and live on sugar pills packed with vitamins.

--
Drew Lawson What would Brian Boitano do?

On 06/10/2014 06:36 AM, Dan.Espen wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" writes:
Sorry folks I couldn't resist the temptation. I know it's puerile,
like tapping on the cage in the reptile house. Todd didn't disappoint,
struck out like an Eastern Brown in an ants nest. I'll try not to do
it again. He might hurt his nose on the glass.

Yep.

What's easier to accept:

I got poisoned by the food industry, or,
I ate too much and I got sick.


Hi Dan,

Or I eat what I want and to hell with the consequences.

And by the way, I chose what I ate. I believed the
"healthy carbs" bull shit. I should have known
better, but I liked what I was eating. Carbs
are addictive.

And, guess what. I still eat too much and I am
getting better. Wonder why that is? Do you
suppose it is "what" I eat? No, couldn't be.
Not a chance. I had to have hurt myself because
I sit on my fat ass and eat too much! (2+2=3)

Eating too much and drug and allopath free
since September 2013.

-T

No sign of any body parts falling off. Hmmm.
Wonder why? Has nothing whatsoever to do with
what I eat. Nope. Not a chance.

On 06/10/2014 05:31 AM, Fran Farmer wrote:
Hunter-gatherers would have gorged on any form of food that was abundant
if they could get their hands on it regardless of whether it was a carb
or a protein so I find it odd that anyone would try to turn back the
food clock.

Hi Fran,

"Hunter-gatherers" ate whatever they could get their hands
on. And when it was available, they always ate too much.
They also had a lot more variety than we do today. A "well
balanced diet" and didn't even realize it. And no T2 Diabetes.

The difference from today was that they had not artificially
hybridized plants for unnatural amounts of carbohydrates.
They couldn't get their hands on what is injuring us today.
Our bodies are not designed for it. And there is no "natural
selection" as we die from excess carbohydrate poisoning
after we reproduce.

As far as turning back the clock, T2 Diabetes is a world side
epidemic. We need to use the same smarts that got us
these artificial high carb plants to hybridize the
fat up and the carbs down. That will end the problem.

In the mean time, there are just a hand full of plants
to avoid and you won't risk injuring yourself. One-out
of-six!

And I still eat too much. I am really enjoying being
able to taste my food again. And I am turning out to
be a pretty good cook (lots of room to improve though).

I am like a kid in a candy store when I get into the
produce section of grocery store. Meat section too.
I ignore the row after row after row of "healthy carbs".

-T

On 06/10/2014 06:20 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote:


Sorry folks I couldn't resist the temptation. I know it's puerile,
like tapping on the cage in the reptile house. Todd didn't disappoint,
struck out like an Eastern Brown in an ants nest. I'll try not to do it
again. He might hurt his nose on the glass.

David


No, you just lost the argument and decided to insult me.

On 06/10/2014 10:30 AM, Todd wrote:
We need to use the same smarts that got us
these artificial high carb plants to hybridize the
fat up and the carbs down.

Hi Fran,

You just reminded me to add avocados to
this weeks shopping list. Great source
of plant fat. (Also proves it can be done.)

You never said what kind of cow you raise?
(Zero carb!)

Out here most all of the ranches are Cow-Calf.

For those unfamiliar, Cow-Calf is where
the ranchers raise the calves to a certain age,
then sell then to others to raise the rest of
the way. Sort of like the tomato plants we
buy at the nursery. When the ranchers round
up all the calves for sale, the mamas cry
all night. Kind of heart breaking.

One guy raises cows with the bent horns that
the rodeo cowboys like to wrestle to the
ground -- too hard to do with straight horns.

-T

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 5:31:32 AM UTC-7, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 10/06/2014 1:12 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:



It is simply impossible to get enough calories without grains, tubers

and bananas, all high carb foods. Despite all its drawbacks we simply

cannot give up farming and become hunter-gatherers,



Hunter-gatherers would have gorged on any form of food that was abundant

if they could get their hands on it regardless of whether it was a carb

or a protein so I find it odd that anyone would try to turn back the

food clock.



we cannot turn the

clock back 10,000 years and specifically we cannot give up farming

grain. How do you think the green revolution saved hundreds of millions

from starvation?



Please don't rabbit on about T2 diabetes, a disease of the people of

rich countries who over eat and under excercise, focus on this one

question.



How do you feed the world for the next 50 years without heavy reliance

on farming and consuming high carb crops?



In case you missed it I repeat: please don't rabbit on about T2

diabetes, a disease of the people of rich countries who over eat and

under excercise, focus on this one question.



Yes. I find it amazing how little exercise seems to be done these days

in comparison to how much intake of chow there is in our modern

societies. The paleo walking regime would be a good thing to resurrect.

Or even a Victorian walking regime.



There is an innitiative of the Qld health dept that has gone round the

country as a Healthy Heart program. It's called something like

"10,000steps" and the goal is to walk 10,000 steps each day. I put on a

pedometer and did over 10,000 steps on a normal day of doing housework,

gardening and animal care. I did 2 lots of baking in addition to the

meals, did a bit of gardening, did 2 loads of washing and hung them out

on the line and then brought the clothes in when they were dry and put

them away. I did a bit of vacuuming and visited the chooks twice to let

them out, feed and water them, collect the eggs and then lock them up

for the night. Just an average day for me but I wonder what a lazy

sloth step count would be.

We have that 10,000 steps thingie up here too.

I put in the same or more as you in house, garden, shoppin, etc. but it never occurred to me that these steps would count toward the 10K. I thought it had to be stride ahead..

Agree 1000% on need to walk more.

It IS true that the greater LA area IS dreadfully spread out, such that it would take a good part of the day to take bus(es) to distant part of county.. With better public transport, the suffering could have been mitigated decades ago. But the government is owned by the oil & gas & automobile barons who have spent gazillions over time at the est Little Whorehouse in Washington (AKA U.S. Congress) to make sure their products continue to be consumed, faut de mieux.

Now the traffic is so bad -- supposed to be worst in country ??? that people just give up driving during rush hour which used to begin about 4:30-5:00.. Then 3:30-4:00 - then ... so now it is perpetual rush hour. I've read that people spent a WEEK of their lives stuck in traffic!!!

Personally, as a card-carrying science freak, I used to enjoy events at JPL and Caltech. Not any more..check out the 405 Freeway at rush hour! Apocalyptic.

Back to walking: So, it's a great concept, but realistically...

At least we have a lovely promenade overlooking the Pacific -- well used by people and dogs (on leash).

HB

On 06/10/2014 11:54 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:
Back to walking: So, it's a great concept, but realistically...

At least we have a lovely promenade overlooking the Pacific -- well used by people and dogs (on leash).

HB


Hi Higgs,

I personally hate exercise. Rode a stationary bike once and
though I'd died and gone to hell.

But, if you put a fishing rod in my hands and tell me
there are trout over that mountain, I will hike, run,
crawl over rocks ...

So as Mark Sisson (Mr. Paleo) puts it, the best exercise
is the "one that you will do".

I find that walking/hiking will bring back down the blood
sugar spikes from stress and down about 10 to 15 points
in general.

And, I also find that you don't have to exercise your ass off
either, just do something.

TROUT FEAR ME!

-T

Todd wrote:
On 06/10/2014 06:20 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote:


Sorry folks I couldn't resist the temptation. I know it's puerile,
like tapping on the cage in the reptile house. Todd didn't
disappoint, struck out like an Eastern Brown in an ants nest. I'll
try not to do it again. He might hurt his nose on the glass.

David


No, you just lost the argument and decided to insult me.

There was no argument.

How do you feed the world for the next 50 years without heavy
reliance on farming and consuming high carb crops?

D

David Hare-Scott wrote:
....
How do you feed the world for the next 50 years without heavy
reliance on farming and consuming high carb crops?

the same way it was done before much of the
current nonsense came along. diversity, smaller
farms and people working together as an actual
community.

i've seen good results here on not much room
at all, no reason it can't work on a larger
scale other than needing more people who would
want to do it. enough people get hungry enough
and perhaps they will want to do it too.


songbird

On 11/06/2014 8:36 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Todd wrote:
On 06/10/2014 06:20 AM, David Hare-Scott wrote:


Sorry folks I couldn't resist the temptation. I know it's puerile,
like tapping on the cage in the reptile house. Todd didn't
disappoint, struck out like an Eastern Brown in an ants nest. I'll
try not to do it again. He might hurt his nose on the glass.

David


No, you just lost the argument and decided to insult me.

There was no argument.

How do you feed the world for the next 50 years without heavy
reliance on farming and consuming high carb crops?

There will be no sensible response. As a beef producer (grass fed only)
and someone who comes from a long line of potato growers and from an
immediate family that owned a free range poultry business, I know that
access to the type of food that Todd keeps wittering on about is both
expensive and scarce even in first world societies.

We first worlders are OK, stuff the rest of the world....................

On 11/06/2014 3:30 AM, Todd wrote:
On 06/10/2014 05:31 AM, Fran Farmer wrote:
Hunter-gatherers would have gorged on any form of food that was abundant
if they could get their hands on it regardless of whether it was a carb
or a protein so I find it odd that anyone would try to turn back the
food clock.

Hi Fran,

"Hunter-gatherers" ate whatever they could get their hands
on. And when it was available, they always ate too much.
They also had a lot more variety than we do today. A "well
balanced diet" and didn't even realize it. And no T2 Diabetes.

Where is your cite to prove that there was no T2 diabetes amongst hunter
gatherers?

The difference from today was that they had not artificially
hybridized plants for unnatural amounts of carbohydrates.
They couldn't get their hands on what is injuring us today.
Our bodies are not designed for it. And there is no "natural
selection" as we die from excess carbohydrate poisoning
after we reproduce.

As far as turning back the clock, T2 Diabetes is a world side
epidemic.

As is obesity and falling rates of physical activity according to the WHO.


We need to use the same smarts that got us
these artificial high carb plants to hybridize the
fat up and the carbs down. That will end the problem.

As will increased physical activity, eating in moderation and loss of
weight.


In the mean time, there are just a hand full of plants
to avoid and you won't risk injuring yourself. One-out
of-six!

And I still eat too much.

Then perhaps you could try to learn self control.

I am really enjoying being
able to taste my food again. And I am turning out to
be a pretty good cook (lots of room to improve though).

I am like a kid in a candy store when I get into the
produce section of grocery store. Meat section too.
I ignore the row after row after row of "healthy carbs".

-T

On 11/06/2014 4:20 AM, Todd wrote:
On 06/10/2014 10:30 AM, Todd wrote:
We need to use the same smarts that got us
these artificial high carb plants to hybridize the
fat up and the carbs down.

Hi Fran,

You just reminded me to add avocados to
this weeks shopping list. Great source
of plant fat. (Also proves it can be done.)

You never said what kind of cow you raise?

Angus and some Angus cross.

(Zero carb!)

Out here most all of the ranches are Cow-Calf.

For those unfamiliar, Cow-Calf is where
the ranchers raise the calves to a certain age,
then sell then to others to raise the rest of
the way. Sort of like the tomato plants we
buy at the nursery. When the ranchers round
up all the calves for sale, the mamas cry
all night. Kind of heart breaking.

One guy raises cows with the bent horns that
the rodeo cowboys like to wrestle to the
ground -- too hard to do with straight horns.

-T