"Anonny Moose" wrote in message
...

"escape" wrote in message
...
It's unreasonable for people to elect a man who is grossly incompetent
merely
because he says praise god, and uses terms like "The Lord." The man
will
go
down as being one of, if not THE worst president in American history.
People
elected him based on something which scares me. The future is dim, in
my
opinion. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christians.

Everyone thinks of W as a religious man, but I've yet to find any
reference
to him actually talking about his religious beliefs. Can anyone point out
an
instance when he has stated specifics? Thanks.

Karen



I cannot provide examples. However, I can offer a suggestion from an
acquaintance who shall remain unnamed and undescribed, for security
purposes: Perhaps if everyone send W a box of pretzels, one of the snacks
will eventually have the desired effect.

In article ,
"Cereus-validus..." wrote:

Its been said if Jesus was alive today he would be a big fan of both Nova
and Star Trek.

But he would've been totally creeped out by Joan of Arcadia and Touched By
An Angel.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

(paghat) wrote in message ...
As someone who has for many years studied comparative religion, whose
personal library includes everything from the Babylonian Talmud to the
Zohar and Targums and Midrash Rabbah, to the Upanishads to the the Devi
Mahatmya to Kojiki: The Record of Ancient Matters, to the complete works
of the AnteNicene fathers, five translations of the Bible, the Ng Hammadi
texts & every conceivable scrap of Pseudepigrapha, to the Koran and the
complete works of Rumi, ad infitum, & having read this entire library more
than one time through, I can say that my interest in religion goes as deep
or deeper than yours. Good chance I even know more about your faith than
do you, unless you too have Tertullian and Clement of Alexandria within
arm's reach.

I'm afraid that this claim to authority must be disallowed by any
reasonable person. You are not an authority on a religion of which
you are not a member.

As someone rather seriously interested in patristics
(http://www.tertullian.org/fathers), I was nevertheless unable to
follow your comment about Tertullian and Clement. Nor would either
have agreed with you here.

And I know this: At the mystic end of all religions there is
common ground, there is poetic philosophy, & there is wisdom devoid of
divisive hatred. You've only gotten as far as the divisive, damaging,
hate-justifying part of what it means to be relgious. I may not see in you
the capacity to ever become spiritual, but who knows, maybe you'll have
more than one life to work it through, & you'll become a credit to your
faith to everyone's great amaze.

You did not find this low-grade syncretism in any of the fathers,
however. Nor can this position be rationally justified, as far as I
can tell.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

In article , "Anonny Moose"
wrote:

"escape" wrote in message
...
It's unreasonable for people to elect a man who is grossly incompetent
merely
because he says praise god, and uses terms like "The Lord." The man will
go
down as being one of, if not THE worst president in American history.
People
elected him based on something which scares me. The future is dim, in my
opinion. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christians.

Everyone thinks of W as a religious man, but I've yet to find any reference
to him actually talking about his religious beliefs. Can anyone point out an
instance when he has stated specifics? Thanks.

Karen

For an understanding of how Bush applies religion to goverment policy, I
recommend Jim Wallis's article on Bush's Theology of Empi
http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0309&ar ticle=030910
This is a Christian take on why Christians should respect the separation
of church & state, & the harm Bush does by destroying this separation.

He is his own religion. Real quote:

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he
instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did." [said to Palestinian
Authority Prime Minister Abu Mazen]

Less loony if only he could've maintained a separation of church & state:

"Reverend Graham planted a mustard seed in my soul, a seed that grew over
the next year. He led me to the path, and I began walking. It was the
beginning of a change in my life.I had always been a "religious" person,
had regularly attended church, even taught Sunday School and served as an
altar boy. But that weekend my faith took on a new meaning. It was the
beginning of a new walk where I would commit my heart to Jesus Christ."
[from Bush's book A Charge To Keep, describing his born-again conversion
in 1985 which stopped him from being a full-time drunkard &, by all
evidence, part-time coke-head]

Of course, A Charge to Keep was ghost-written by campaign speech-writers,
& it is a trumped up biography posing as autobiography strictly for The
Selling of the President. Billy Graham had very little to do with his
deepening interest in religion. But by the mid-1980s Laura was sick of
seeing him constantly drunk, as he was borish, loud, & extremely vulgar, &
when Laura had the twins, she didn't think they should be permitted to
grow up around such a hard-core alcoholic. He had also been involved in a
series of shady business deals that had been very profitable for a while
but finally collapsed. He hung out with oil tycoons from the Skull & Bones
Society (honest to shit!) & in 1984 there was a "bust" period for these
rich ****ers. One of these rich ****ers was Don Evans. It was Evans, not
Billy Graham, who in his own life-crisis dragged his best friend George W.
to non-denominational bible studies in 1984/1985. Evans began to put up
barriers to keep Bush's drinking buddies at bay, surrounded Bush with
fellow Jesus freaks, & peer-pressured him into giving up smoking &
drinking (Bush may already have given up cocaine in the late 1970s; he
went AWOL while in the Guard & got his early discharge to avoid the new
policy of drug-testing). Due to Evans influence, & under threats from
Laura, George stopped drinking in summer of 1986, & by 1987 he was his
father's liason to the religious far-right drumming up support for his
dad. In 1999 he called to the Texas governor's mansion an assembly of
leading conservative preachers, & told them Jesus had called to him, like
Paul on the road to Damascus, to become president of the United States.

When Bush slipped & admitted early on that his war against the mid-east
was a "Crusade" he was being totally honest. His faith-based foreign
policy is in fact a Christian crusade against Islam. When you realize
that, all the irrationality of this war, & the baseless fabrications from
the White House to justify it, fall into place.

So I don't think anyone can doubt he's a christian, though certainly not
an very honest one. He has claimed that he studies a different bible
passage every morning before he brings Laura her cup of coffee. A charming
claim very calculated. But when an interviewer attempting to break the ice
in a nice way asked him what passage he had read that morning, Bush became
angry & gave a guarded interview, because he hadn't read any passages,
knows very little about what's in the bible because he does not read
ANYthing, let alone a bible passage every morning. What he gets every
morning is a summation of leading stories from national newspapers SPOKEN
to him. His mornings do often include the Presidental Prayer Breakfast
during which he subjects privileged reporters & dignitaries to his own
lame-ass sermons which are written for him by his speech-writers & would
make nice Hallmark Cards about peace & love, good & evil. One of his
morning sermons to his captive breakfasters was on the evils of slavery;
he's so up-to-date. The evil of telling lies in order to start wars that
kill thousands he has apparently never had a sermon about.

Unlike, say, Ronald Reagan who only pretended to have religion, Bush
always had it. He was dragged to Episcopalian churches as a kid, & after
his marriage he converted to Laura's Methodist faith & attended Methodist
meetings with her even while still a persistant drunk. He even taught
Sunday School before heading out to another drunken binge.

He makes regular phone calls to conservative preachers before making
political decisions. WHen he comes up with crazy plans like turning social
welfare over to churches in his church-delivered welfare policy, that came
from no secular source, that was from jabbering on the phone with
preachers who are making whatever policies his oil-buddies haven't already
made.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

In article ,
(Roger Pearse) wrote:

(paghat) wrote in message
...
As someone who has for many years studied comparative religion, whose
personal library includes everything from the Babylonian Talmud to the
Zohar and Targums and Midrash Rabbah, to the Upanishads to the the Devi
Mahatmya to Kojiki: The Record of Ancient Matters, to the complete works
of the AnteNicene fathers, five translations of the Bible, the Ng Hammadi
texts & every conceivable scrap of Pseudepigrapha, to the Koran and the
complete works of Rumi, ad infitum, & having read this entire library more
than one time through, I can say that my interest in religion goes as deep
or deeper than yours. Good chance I even know more about your faith than
do you, unless you too have Tertullian and Clement of Alexandria within
arm's reach.

I'm afraid that this claim to authority must be disallowed by any
reasonable person. You are not an authority on a religion of which
you are not a member.

A devottee of a single Christian sect remains so by being blind to &
rejecting the full range of belief. I do not claim to be an authority,
though, just have a deeper interest than dunderheads who blame their
prejudices & sillier observations on their religion, when they obviously
learned only enough about faith to justify hating whatever they already
hated.

-paggers

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

Real quote:

Wrong again:

This is Abu Mazen's account in Arabic of what Bush said in English, written
down by a note-taker in Arabic, then back into English.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:06:17 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
opined:


Two weeks back, PBS aired a Nova show which showed how scientists are
piecing together the beginnings of quadrupeds, starting with certain types
of fish, and tracking the increments by which a fish finally left the water
and walked on land. Assuming several million Christians watched this show,
how do you suppose they felt about it? Did they consider it to be in the
same category as Star Trek?


I saw the show and it was wonderful. I was thinking about your question as I
was watching it, funny enough. I have no idea what a Christian would think
about it. I don't know how they can deny evolution, theory or not. My
problem is not with Christians believing in creation, but when it comes to the
man running the US, it matters to me.





Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:34:43 -0800, "Anonny Moose"
opined:


"escape" wrote in message
.. .
It's unreasonable for people to elect a man who is grossly incompetent
merely
because he says praise god, and uses terms like "The Lord." The man will
go
down as being one of, if not THE worst president in American history.
People
elected him based on something which scares me. The future is dim, in my
opinion. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christians.

Everyone thinks of W as a religious man, but I've yet to find any reference
to him actually talking about his religious beliefs. Can anyone point out an
instance when he has stated specifics? Thanks.

Karen


A brief search:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Sep15.html

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-3-2003_pg7_56

http://cleveland.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/13213.php





Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:52:36 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
opined:



On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:24:31 -0500, opined:

Christians do not believe in evolution, as they are guided by the
bible, who is
written by God and interpreted by man.

God did not write the Bible, men did. Then other men interpreted what
men had written.


Janet.

Hmm, really? I guess you never read the new testament.





Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

On 17 Nov 2004 18:36:29 GMT, (IntarsiaCo) opined:

Real quote:

Wrong again:

This is Abu Mazen's account in Arabic of what Bush said in English, written
down by a note-taker in Arabic, then back into English.

Regardless, I heard the man say God spoke to him and told him he was supposed to
be president. He said this when he was the governor of my state of TX.





Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

A.Einstein

On 11/17/04 12:08 PM, in article
, "paghat"
wrote:

In article ,
"Cereus-validus..." wrote:

Its been said if Jesus was alive today he would be a big fan of both Nova
and Star Trek.

But he would've been totally creeped out by Joan of Arcadia and Touched By
An Angel.


Heck - those creep me out!

Cheryl

escape wrote:

On 17 Nov 2004 18:36:29 GMT, (IntarsiaCo) opined:


Real quote:

Wrong again:

This is Abu Mazen's account in Arabic of what Bush said in English, written
down by a note-taker in Arabic, then back into English.


Regardless, I heard the man say God spoke to him and told him he was supposed to
be president. He said this when he was the governor of my state of TX.


Probably a good thing he gave up the coke when he did or he might have
heard even more stuff.

On 11/17/04 2:11 PM, in article ,
"escape" wrote:

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:52:36 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
opined:



On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:24:31 -0500, opined:

Christians do not believe in evolution, as they are guided by the
bible, who is
written by God and interpreted by man.

God did not write the Bible, men did. Then other men interpreted what
men had written.


Janet.

Hmm, really? I guess you never read the new testament.



There are the stories according to the disciples, not the direct word of God
or the Christ. And are multiply translated and rare are the translations
that go back to Hebrew, Latin or Greek writings. Most are rewording of the
poorly done translations.

Cheryl

In article , get-
says...
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:06:17 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
opined:

Two weeks back, PBS aired a Nova show which showed how scientists are
piecing together the beginnings of quadrupeds, starting with certain types
of fish, and tracking the increments by which a fish finally left the water
and walked on land.

I saw the show and it was wonderful. I was thinking about your question as I
was watching it, funny enough. I have no idea what a Christian would think
about it. I don't know how they can deny evolution, theory or not

Silly me. I thought that DNA evidence would finally put the evolution
debate to rest. I must write on the blackboard 100 times:

Evidence doesn't matter.
Evidence doesn't matter.
Evidence doesn't matter.