"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
Well done.

Since I was simply addressing a blanket and rather ignorant statement
"
It
is never the animal's fault. Never. It is always the fault of the
people who leave animals out to bark incessantly" .......The statement
had
no qualifier for time, duration or circumstance.....one could surmise
a
barking dog for 10 minutes as easily as 10 hours (both can be rather
irritating)....as it is dogs bark...its what they do...and just
because
a
dog barks the owner does not inherently deserve the subsequently
proffered
penalties.

I think assigning "fault" to a dog for barking is at best pointless.
Under
the right circumstances a dog will bark. If your only point is to
place
blame and not come to a resolution, then blaming a dog for baking would
meet
your goal. On the other hand, if you goal is to resolve the noise
problem,
then the only rational conclusion is to find fault with the owner for
not
managing the problem. A barking dog will seldom, if ever, take steps
to
make the neighborhood quite. The dog has other goals. Gun owner will
quickly point out that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Blaming
a gun for making noise or killing people is exactly the same as blaming
a
dog for barking. We could argue into eternity about whether guns kill
people and not change the fact that tens of thousands of people are
killed
by guns each year, just as you could blame a dog for barking and not
make
things even a tiny bit quieter.



Please post the number for the telephone that rings closest to your bed.
We'll wake YOU up at odd hours for a week or two and see if it changes
your
tune. :-)

Why? You would be better off calling the police or your attorney to deal
with noise problems rather than throw fule on the fire by duplicating the
irresponsible behavior of the pet owner.

Try that sometime and let me know how it goes, OK?

Quite a few animal control employees don't know how to read the riot act to
an irresponsible dog owner. So, they issue warnings instead of following the
letter of the law. In many municipalities, the law says that the dog owner
gets three "tickets" or whatever they're called, with steadily increasing
fines, and then the dog is removed permanently. This process can often be
completed within a week, if the animal control person cooperates. Instead,
it can take months, even if the violation is occurring every night.

Good luck.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
Well done.

Since I was simply addressing a blanket and rather ignorant
statement
"
It
is never the animal's fault. Never. It is always the fault of the
people who leave animals out to bark incessantly" .......The
statement
had
no qualifier for time, duration or circumstance.....one could
surmise
a
barking dog for 10 minutes as easily as 10 hours (both can be rather
irritating)....as it is dogs bark...its what they do...and just
because
a
dog barks the owner does not inherently deserve the subsequently
proffered
penalties.

I think assigning "fault" to a dog for barking is at best pointless.
Under
the right circumstances a dog will bark. If your only point is to
place
blame and not come to a resolution, then blaming a dog for baking
would
meet
your goal. On the other hand, if you goal is to resolve the noise
problem,
then the only rational conclusion is to find fault with the owner for
not
managing the problem. A barking dog will seldom, if ever, take steps
to
make the neighborhood quite. The dog has other goals. Gun owner
will
quickly point out that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Blaming
a gun for making noise or killing people is exactly the same as
blaming
a
dog for barking. We could argue into eternity about whether guns
kill
people and not change the fact that tens of thousands of people are
killed
by guns each year, just as you could blame a dog for barking and not
make
things even a tiny bit quieter.



Please post the number for the telephone that rings closest to your
bed.
We'll wake YOU up at odd hours for a week or two and see if it changes
your
tune. :-)

Why? You would be better off calling the police or your attorney to
deal
with noise problems rather than throw fule on the fire by duplicating
the
irresponsible behavior of the pet owner.

Try that sometime and let me know how it goes, OK?

Quite a few animal control employees don't know how to read the riot act
to
an irresponsible dog owner. So, they issue warnings instead of following
the
letter of the law. In many municipalities, the law says that the dog owner
gets three "tickets" or whatever they're called, with steadily increasing
fines, and then the dog is removed permanently. This process can often be
completed within a week, if the animal control person cooperates. Instead,
it can take months, even if the violation is occurring every night.



That's the system we have. What you seem to be advocating is lawlessness
where people simply take things into their own hands. While due process can
be tedious, it is better than anarchy.

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
Well done.

Since I was simply addressing a blanket and rather ignorant
statement
"
It
is never the animal's fault. Never. It is always the fault of the
people who leave animals out to bark incessantly" .......The
statement
had
no qualifier for time, duration or circumstance.....one could
surmise
a
barking dog for 10 minutes as easily as 10 hours (both can be
rather
irritating)....as it is dogs bark...its what they do...and just
because
a
dog barks the owner does not inherently deserve the subsequently
proffered
penalties.

I think assigning "fault" to a dog for barking is at best pointless.
Under
the right circumstances a dog will bark. If your only point is to
place
blame and not come to a resolution, then blaming a dog for baking
would
meet
your goal. On the other hand, if you goal is to resolve the noise
problem,
then the only rational conclusion is to find fault with the owner
for
not
managing the problem. A barking dog will seldom, if ever, take
steps
to
make the neighborhood quite. The dog has other goals. Gun owner
will
quickly point out that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Blaming
a gun for making noise or killing people is exactly the same as
blaming
a
dog for barking. We could argue into eternity about whether guns
kill
people and not change the fact that tens of thousands of people are
killed
by guns each year, just as you could blame a dog for barking and not
make
things even a tiny bit quieter.



Please post the number for the telephone that rings closest to your
bed.
We'll wake YOU up at odd hours for a week or two and see if it changes
your
tune. :-)

Why? You would be better off calling the police or your attorney to
deal
with noise problems rather than throw fule on the fire by duplicating
the
irresponsible behavior of the pet owner.

Try that sometime and let me know how it goes, OK?

Quite a few animal control employees don't know how to read the riot act
to
an irresponsible dog owner. So, they issue warnings instead of following
the
letter of the law. In many municipalities, the law says that the dog
owner
gets three "tickets" or whatever they're called, with steadily increasing
fines, and then the dog is removed permanently. This process can often be
completed within a week, if the animal control person cooperates.
Instead,
it can take months, even if the violation is occurring every night.



That's the system we have. What you seem to be advocating is lawlessness
where people simply take things into their own hands. While due process
can
be tedious, it is better than anarchy.



Disturbing someone's sleep in just one step shy of child molesting. Talk
about anarchy....

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
Well done.

Since I was simply addressing a blanket and rather ignorant
statement
"
It
is never the animal's fault. Never. It is always the fault of
the
people who leave animals out to bark incessantly" .......The
statement
had
no qualifier for time, duration or circumstance.....one could
surmise
a
barking dog for 10 minutes as easily as 10 hours (both can be
rather
irritating)....as it is dogs bark...its what they do...and just
because
a
dog barks the owner does not inherently deserve the subsequently
proffered
penalties.

I think assigning "fault" to a dog for barking is at best
pointless.
Under
the right circumstances a dog will bark. If your only point is to
place
blame and not come to a resolution, then blaming a dog for baking
would
meet
your goal. On the other hand, if you goal is to resolve the noise
problem,
then the only rational conclusion is to find fault with the owner
for
not
managing the problem. A barking dog will seldom, if ever, take
steps
to
make the neighborhood quite. The dog has other goals. Gun owner
will
quickly point out that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Blaming
a gun for making noise or killing people is exactly the same as
blaming
a
dog for barking. We could argue into eternity about whether guns
kill
people and not change the fact that tens of thousands of people
are
killed
by guns each year, just as you could blame a dog for barking and
not
make
things even a tiny bit quieter.



Please post the number for the telephone that rings closest to your
bed.
We'll wake YOU up at odd hours for a week or two and see if it
changes
your
tune. :-)

Why? You would be better off calling the police or your attorney to
deal
with noise problems rather than throw fule on the fire by duplicating
the
irresponsible behavior of the pet owner.

Try that sometime and let me know how it goes, OK?

Quite a few animal control employees don't know how to read the riot
act
to
an irresponsible dog owner. So, they issue warnings instead of
following
the
letter of the law. In many municipalities, the law says that the dog
owner
gets three "tickets" or whatever they're called, with steadily
increasing
fines, and then the dog is removed permanently. This process can often
be
completed within a week, if the animal control person cooperates.
Instead,
it can take months, even if the violation is occurring every night.



That's the system we have. What you seem to be advocating is
lawlessness
where people simply take things into their own hands. While due process
can
be tedious, it is better than anarchy.



Disturbing someone's sleep in just one step shy of child molesting. Talk
about anarchy....

If you say so.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:58:12 GMT, Bourne Identity
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:02:10 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
opined:


"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter"
I agree. It's the peoples' fault. But, we are a backward society, so the
people are not taken to the pound, held for a period of time, and then
killed. Someday, maybe.


Did I get this right?....The damn dog barks but it is the owners fault and
not the fault of the actual dog doing the barking?.....and with a hopeful
spirit you someday hope that people with whom you presumably simply don't
approve of will get killed simply on your whim? So may we presume that you
value trees and dogs more than you actually value humans? I guess people
pick their own values, too bad you picked yours.....Rod


Actually, I think killing the dog is the way to go, because of the misery it
may cause the owner and its family. But, try and get people to agree with
THAT idea. Not easy. As far as "people I don't approve of", the word "you"
(meaning me) doesn't fit. ***NOBODY*** approves of humans of allow their
dogs to bark endlessly. Yes, that's an absolute statement, and is inarguably
true, all the time, everywhere. Period.

Now, if you have some spare time, conduct a survey. I already know the
results, but you'll want to find out for yourself. Ask 100 people "If, for
one day, you could pick one unbelievably obnoxious neighbor, take a rifle
and shoot that person dead, and know that there would be no legal
consequences, would you do it?" I promise you that the results would shock
you. If you asked the question face to face, at least half would respond
"yes". If you conducted it anonymously, on paper, I think more like 80%
would say "yes".


For the record, my answer would be, unquestionably NO. I am gleefully among the
20%.


Well at least 80% of the people that know me wish
I'd take a dirt nap.

HTH

Krause loves Smithers
_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:24:26 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote:


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
Well done.

Since I was simply addressing a blanket and rather ignorant
statement
"
It
is never the animal's fault. Never. It is always the fault of
the
people who leave animals out to bark incessantly" .......The
statement
had
no qualifier for time, duration or circumstance.....one could
surmise
a
barking dog for 10 minutes as easily as 10 hours (both can be
rather
irritating)....as it is dogs bark...its what they do...and just
because
a
dog barks the owner does not inherently deserve the subsequently
proffered
penalties.

I think assigning "fault" to a dog for barking is at best
pointless.
Under
the right circumstances a dog will bark. If your only point is to
place
blame and not come to a resolution, then blaming a dog for baking
would
meet
your goal. On the other hand, if you goal is to resolve the noise
problem,
then the only rational conclusion is to find fault with the owner
for
not
managing the problem. A barking dog will seldom, if ever, take
steps
to
make the neighborhood quite. The dog has other goals. Gun owner
will
quickly point out that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Blaming
a gun for making noise or killing people is exactly the same as
blaming
a
dog for barking. We could argue into eternity about whether guns
kill
people and not change the fact that tens of thousands of people
are
killed
by guns each year, just as you could blame a dog for barking and
not
make
things even a tiny bit quieter.



Please post the number for the telephone that rings closest to your
bed.
We'll wake YOU up at odd hours for a week or two and see if it
changes
your
tune. :-)

Why? You would be better off calling the police or your attorney to
deal
with noise problems rather than throw fule on the fire by duplicating
the
irresponsible behavior of the pet owner.

Try that sometime and let me know how it goes, OK?

Quite a few animal control employees don't know how to read the riot
act
to
an irresponsible dog owner. So, they issue warnings instead of
following
the
letter of the law. In many municipalities, the law says that the dog
owner
gets three "tickets" or whatever they're called, with steadily
increasing
fines, and then the dog is removed permanently. This process can often
be
completed within a week, if the animal control person cooperates.
Instead,
it can take months, even if the violation is occurring every night.



That's the system we have. What you seem to be advocating is
lawlessness
where people simply take things into their own hands. While due process
can
be tedious, it is better than anarchy.



Disturbing someone's sleep in just one step shy of child molesting. Talk
about anarchy....

If you say so.

Michael Jackson is my hero! I told you he was
INNOCENT!!!!!

_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Bourne Identity" wrote in message
news
Maybe you aren't that well read, or don't have comprehension of four
syllable
words, but what does the term "incessantly" mean? Is that a word you'd
use to
describe a ten minute barking session? OR, would the word "incessantly"
imply
constantly, continual, ongoing, perpetually, never ending, non-stop? One
word,
thesaurus.

Feel better...is there some rule where you first must disparage the person?
Afraid that what you have to say can't stand on its own muster? You might be
right......

Nonetheless in this thread Doug has already disagreed with your
understanding of "incessantly" in his intended context. So one may readily
assume your dictionary skills were inappropriately used here....Rod

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

Well at least 80% of the people that know me wish
I'd take a dirt nap.

HTH


And I'm sure for reasonably just causeg....however most of us do not have
you for a neighbor so push comes to shove we'd not wish to kill someone else
on such trivial grounds....Rod

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

Well at least 80% of the people that know me wish
I'd take a dirt nap.

HTH


And I'm sure for reasonably just causeg....however most of us do not
have you for a neighbor so push comes to shove we'd not wish to kill
someone else on such trivial grounds....Rod


Inspect the header on the message you just responded to. You've been trolled
by an impostor, young man.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Bourne Identity" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:02:10 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

opined:


"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter"
I agree. It's the peoples' fault. But, we are a backward
society, so the
people are not taken to the pound, held for a period of
time, and then killed. Someday, maybe.


Did I get this right?....The damn dog barks but it is the
owners fault and
not the fault of the actual dog doing the barking?.....and
with a hopeful
spirit you someday hope that people with whom you presumably
simply don't
approve of will get killed simply on your whim? So may we
presume that you
value trees and dogs more than you actually value humans? I
guess people pick their own values, too bad you picked
yours.....Rod

Actually, I think killing the dog is the way to go, because of
the misery it
may cause the owner and its family. But, try and get people to
agree with THAT idea. Not easy. As far as "people I don't
approve of", the word "you" (meaning me) doesn't fit.
***NOBODY*** approves of humans of allow their dogs to bark
endlessly. Yes, that's an absolute statement, and is inarguably
true, all the time, everywhere. Period.

Now, if you have some spare time, conduct a survey. I already
know the results, but you'll want to find out for yourself. Ask
100 people "If, for one day, you could pick one unbelievably
obnoxious neighbor, take a rifle and shoot that person dead,
and know that there would be no legal consequences, would you
do it?" I promise you that the results would shock you. If you
asked the question face to face, at least half would respond
"yes". If you conducted it anonymously, on paper, I think more
like 80% would say "yes".

For the record, my answer would be, unquestionably NO. I am
gleefully among the
20%.

How about a potato in the dog owner's exhaust pipe?

I didn't know dog owners had exhaust pipes. Do you mean stick it up
their ass?

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
Sunset Zone 5

"Travis" wrote in message
news:hq4ue.3454$1q2.2132@trnddc01...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Bourne Identity" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:02:10 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

opined:


"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter"
I agree. It's the peoples' fault. But, we are a backward
society, so the
people are not taken to the pound, held for a period of
time, and then killed. Someday, maybe.


Did I get this right?....The damn dog barks but it is the
owners fault and
not the fault of the actual dog doing the barking?.....and
with a hopeful
spirit you someday hope that people with whom you presumably
simply don't
approve of will get killed simply on your whim? So may we
presume that you
value trees and dogs more than you actually value humans? I
guess people pick their own values, too bad you picked
yours.....Rod

Actually, I think killing the dog is the way to go, because of
the misery it
may cause the owner and its family. But, try and get people to
agree with THAT idea. Not easy. As far as "people I don't
approve of", the word "you" (meaning me) doesn't fit.
***NOBODY*** approves of humans of allow their dogs to bark
endlessly. Yes, that's an absolute statement, and is inarguably
true, all the time, everywhere. Period.

Now, if you have some spare time, conduct a survey. I already
know the results, but you'll want to find out for yourself. Ask
100 people "If, for one day, you could pick one unbelievably
obnoxious neighbor, take a rifle and shoot that person dead,
and know that there would be no legal consequences, would you
do it?" I promise you that the results would shock you. If you
asked the question face to face, at least half would respond
"yes". If you conducted it anonymously, on paper, I think more
like 80% would say "yes".

For the record, my answer would be, unquestionably NO. I am
gleefully among the
20%.

How about a potato in the dog owner's exhaust pipe?

I didn't know dog owners had exhaust pipes. Do you mean stick it up their
ass?

I suppose if you had a 2nd potato available, after taking care of the
car.... :-)

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in
:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in
message ...
Well done.

Since I was simply addressing a blanket and rather ignorant
statement " It is never the animal's fault. Never. It is
always the fault of the people who leave animals out to
bark incessantly" .......The statement had no qualifier for
time, duration or circumstance.....one could surmise a
barking dog for 10 minutes as easily as 10 hours (both can
be rather irritating)....as it is dogs bark...its what they
do...and just because a dog barks the owner does not
inherently deserve the subsequently proffered penalties.
Now granted expecting any sort of reasoned discourse here
may have been a bit optimistic.....nonetheless I thought it
worthy to at least call attention to such sloppy thinking
or even flawed values...besides I was bored.

well, that explains why you're barking...
properly trained & sociallized dogs *don't* "just bark". a
properly trained & sociallized dog may give a warning bark if
a strange person enters the yard. it does not yap endlessly
for 10 minutes or 10 hours.
any owner who allows thier dog to do so should not be allowed
to keep an animal until they learn how to properly train &
sociallize said animal. that's pretty simple & generally
doesn't require a great deal of work or even intelligence on
the part of the owner.

You've been listening very closely to Mr President, I
can tell

Politics? I'm sure there is a connection here however
obscure....Does the Presidents dog bark incessantly?

no, the president barks excessively
lee

--
war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell
2001-George W.Bush

Rock on!

Suzy O
"Bourne Identity" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:00:56 +0100, Janet Baraclough
opined:

The message
from "Doug Kanter" contains these words:

Remember, Janet, that this is a country where some people interpret our
constitution to mean that you can do anything you damned well please, as
long as it's within the law. So, try telling someone with a fat SUV that
it's silly to own one if they don't actually need a truck-type vehicle
for
towing or other similar purpose that's appropriate to such a vehicle.
Probably half the time, the response will be "Oh....it's OK...I can
afford
the gasoline". They'll completely miss the point that it's obscene to
waste
resources. The other typical response, if you mention air quality, is
that
"those environmentalists have yet to prove blah blah blah....".

Hah, I'm not falling for that old trick to get rid of me. I know at
least half of the fat SUV persons will reply "I have the right to bear
arms, lady, and I guess from your cute liddle accent you don't, which
makes you a loser in this here international discussion. BANG"

The trees have an uphill battle on their hands.

Do American trees have the right to bear arms too? Or just nuts and
fruits?

Janet

I have a huge Expedition SUV. It's been paid for since the day I bought
it. I
will drive it till it can't drive any more. I don't feel silly driving
it, but
the next vehicle I buy will definitely be a hybrid and I will be more
considerate of my decisions in the future.

I do use my SUV to haul and move things about, but I believe I can always
rent a
truck for that. Or, my neighbor's and I share my power washer and I have
several open ended loan offers for trucks, hedge trimmers, etc. We barter
and
that way we all have everything we all need. So I can borrow a truck when
I
need one when I eventually get rid of this one.

V

Doug,
Wish you were my neighbor!

Suzy O
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bourne Identity" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 20:52:30 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

opined:


I agree. It's the peoples' fault. But, we are a backward society, so the
people are not taken to the pound, held for a period of time, and then
killed. Someday, maybe.

Oop. I'm fervently opposed to the death penalty for any living being. Oh
well,
we almost agreed! I do feel we living in a very uncivilized society in
the
United States. The level of sophistication is low. The hinterland folk
have
toofusses, the northers have "not on my property," and the souf have guns
under
their jackets. It's a rough society. I liken it to barbaric times with
technology...what with the country only being a few hundred years old and
all.
Yeehaaaaaaaaaaa.

Well....I think all it takes if for a person to be bothered by someone
else's noise, and maybe they themselves become more considerate. I'm
apparently a light sleeper, so I assume everyone else is, too. I recently
began playing bass guitar again, after a 15 year hiatus. I wrote down my
phone number on some pieces of paper, visited each neighbor, and told them
"I really have no idea how far the sound carries when I practice. Please
call me if it bothers you". No calls yet.

I guess I'm a socialist. I care about the good of the many. What an
asshole
I am.

Rod & Betty Jo,

You think it's the dog's fault & not the owner for allowing the barking? If
I misunderstood you, just ignore the rest of this.

If not, would you hold bratty little kids responsible or expect their
parents to civilize them? There comes a time when we humans are all
responsible for our actions, but I really don't think pets are able to reach
that stage -- it's all about training & back on the owner's shoulders, IMHO.

Suzy O

"Rod & Betty Jo" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter"
I agree. It's the peoples' fault. But, we are a backward society, so the
people are not taken to the pound, held for a period of time, and then
killed. Someday, maybe.


Did I get this right?....The damn dog barks but it is the owners fault and
not the fault of the actual dog doing the barking?.....and with a hopeful
spirit you someday hope that people with whom you presumably simply don't
approve of will get killed simply on your whim? So may we presume that you
value trees and dogs more than you actually value humans? I guess people
pick their own values, too bad you picked yours.....Rod