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#31
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yes fran,
exactly anyone on a rural block over about 30 acres is going to need some sort of tractor, there are many things to use one for very seldom i go out onto the property without the tractor like one bloke said to me "the tractor is like your wifes purse is to her you rarely go anywhere without it on the land" and if you don't slash big breaks around you tree plantings the very big risk is that you wil lose the lot to a grass fire should one come, was talking to a bloke in gympie before chrissy they had spring fires around gympie and that is waht happened to him he hadn't yet got his spring slashing doen when a fire came while he was at work took a couple of hundred planted trees. we simply could not afford the loss as there is no cash to rpelace them so the trractor is our insurance policy, did have a carry all but hadta sell it to get some readies for bils only got the slasher attachment now and a trailer. we could opt for the local not very big shop but then there is much they don't have like the fresh meat we want and there is no supplementry medicines no chemist no doctor so for us it is the need for a car to do the 30k to gympis once a week so we notice the cost of fuel our tank sucks up 12 to 15 bucks a round trip, so no friverlous trips for us if we forget something it stays forgotten. we used to visit ted n sheean a bit and shop in maryborough but that is all out now. take care haven't heard anymoer about wes n ros yet. len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send. |
#32
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don't agree all points insurances out in the aussie bush dearer in
cases than the city, rates cheaper but then you get to use a land fill dump 2 times a week (take your own rubbish ways) fire levy the same as the city fuel costs the same food in regional shops slightly higher at times than the city no variety of stores to force competition. our water doesn't come free or cheap we need pumps to pump it and they have built in obsolescence. oh and we pay an annual levy for that local tip. we've got a couple of pommies living across the road they didn't have mush water storage before they have increases it now but at one stage they where buying in water to flush pee away in the tiolet then they put a subersable pump into that to mist irrigate the cottage gardens silly hey. some otehr things to throw into the hat we drive on dirt roads modern cars aren't built to cope with, when a tree falls across our fence from the road reserv (council owned) they don't want to know about so it falls back on the land owner to remove the tree and fix the fence. still come down to you provide everything yourself out here if use septic you pay for the water and the pump to flush it. we built and eco' home so we don't need wood or cooling so we don't cause wood fire pollution. snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send. |
#33
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"len gardener" wrote in message
yeh fran, straw is pretty dear up this way not sure but we stopped buying it 2 years ago think it might have got to 12 bucks. this is mulch hay we buy good lucern hay is worth anywhere from 8.80 to 17 bucks. but mulch hay ingeneral has gone from aroubnd 1.5 to 2 bucks 2 years ago, it never goes down either funny that hey. Well that price you have for straw is most surprising Len. The cheapest form of any mulch round here is straw because it's so bloody useless - no nutrients and it's just a waste product. Anything that would be described as "hay" here is not rubbish as it still has good worm feeding nutrient in it even if spoiled as animal food and thus it is still more expensive than straw even if described as being "mulching hay". |
#34
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"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
from "Fran" contains these words: And Len is quite right about rural living - it is far more expensive in terms of daily costs. I pay about double the cost of groceries if I shop in the village vs getting in the car and going 30 kms (and fuel here has also recently blown out in cost). Agreed so far as transport and shop prices for foods go, but in other ways living in the sticks can be cheaper than urban /city life. Local taxes and all insurances are cheaper, and in a cold climate, there's a big saving in fuel costs from plenty of free wood for heating. Private water and sewage systems (unavailable in suburbs/cities here) are far, far cheaper than the charges for public water/sewage. Well agreed that taxes are cheaper as are most of the insurances if one lives in town, but wood is no longer either free or cheap anywhere within coee of where most of us regular posters in Oz would live. Yes it can be got in some cases but then the cost of taking the vehicle to get it, acquiring and looking after the chain saw, time involved etc all adds up. We gave up getting our own some years ago now as it was cheaper to buy it in bulk and have a big truck bring it once a year - and that is when we have lots of trees and lots of land available to us. And as for water, well that one is a two edged sword in a dry country. As Len mentioned pumps are often a problem and they also aren't free to run. If anything goes wrong with one the difference between the cost of a year's water rates in town and fixing/replacing the pump are gone in one trip to the rural supplier/repairer, and if one has to buy a tank load of water well that is certainly more than the cost on one years town rates (and in the recent drought I heard of people paying up to $5,000 in one year for water outside of town!!!! -about 5-10 times the cost of any town water rate pa.). And I don't know that I'd agree about the cost of sewerage either unless you are talking about ammortising (sp?) the cost over a lot of years (which in Len's case he hasn't yet been able to do). Yes, it could perhaps be cheaper (except for the ongoing mortgage cost which includes interest) if one bought a place with it already installed but certainly not if one had to install it oneself as it casts a packet to get the tank and the water supply to connect to it and then have it all plumbed in - I reckone one would'nt get much change out of about $10,000 from a start up. That would be a lot of years of village rates/taxes. The thing that does give me the pip though when I go to the bigger or big smoke is how cheap things are. Like all stationery items, all shoes and clothes and vegetables! Why bloody vegetables for heavens sake! They grow in the sticks! I think I should just take myself off to the big smoke more often and do a shop till I drop exercise once a year and give the local shops the flick. If the buggers don't support me by trying to keep their prices lower then I dunno why I think I should keep supporting them all the time. |
#35
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"len gardener" wrote in message
some otehr things to throw into the hat we drive on dirt roads modern cars aren't built to cope with, when a tree falls across our fence from the road reserv (council owned) they don't want to know about so it falls back on the land owner to remove the tree and fix the fence. Len don't dall for that one! The council IS liable if a tree falls from their land onto your land or fence. We got 2 new gates and Council did the work to repair and replace the fence and gates/gate posts when a tree growing on council land fell down diagonally on top of the two old ratty gates. The old gates ended up in a V shape and so were useless to keep stock in any more. When Himself rang Council to see if they would do anything they didn't even blink and eye but said that they'd be onto it straight away. We expected to get a letter to tell us what they'd do but when we next went out to the other farm they'd already done the repairs. |
#36
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Geodyne wrote:
The Macquarie Island quake wasn't much smaller than the Aceh one though Pete - 8.5, as compared to 8.9. The type of motion at Macquarie is very different to that of the plate boundary in Indonesia, fortunately. To expand on that for everyone's understanding, the Aceh earthquake was a result of a release where two plates are colliding, with one going below the other. Incredible forces until something gives. When it gave way, a large section of ocean floor lifted, causing the tsunami. We know the result. The Macquarie Island quake was a result of two plates moving apart, and in that case there was no uplift to cause a tsunami. Not that that earthquake wouldn't have caused massive damage if it was close to population centres. If the one in the Balleny Islands in Antarctica ever went off though - those of us in SE Oz should all brace. Brace or head for the hills??? Can you fill us in on the situation at Balleny Islands? Another point (not to scare but just for a heads up), is that the Indian Ocean tsunami was by no means a big one, as far as tsunamis go. Japan has copped some nasty ones over time, the Krakatoa one was bigger and the one in Alaska (northern pacific) in early 60's was quite a bit bigger. The bummer about larger tsunamis is that twice the size is more like an order of magnitude more powerful / destructive. Bryan |
#37
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yeh fran,
at first the straw started at around 6 bucks which i thought was a bit rich then went to around 8 and then 12 that stopped us, nothing in straw as you say only good for bedding for the chooks. we used to get spoilt lucern hay for around 2.50 out ipswich way but in brissy they wanted 6 bucks. once spoilt no good for fodder for animals. when spoilt they call it mulch hay, even sugar cane tops in smaller bails than the mulch hay got up to around 3 bucks i won't buy it at that full of chemical residues anyway . but at present we make all our own hay so no need to bring any from off site. len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send. |
#38
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that's waht i reckon fran,
but this is what the shires employed tree cutter said, reckon i could cause a bit of a stink somehow. hasn't happened yet. snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send. |
#39
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exactly fran,
buying a chain saw (not cheap) to collect and cut eucalypt timber with si not for the feint hearted then the saw chain needs continual sharpening unless you set up an expensive bench saw. around here through winter you had to wait up to 3 weeks for water to come they where run ragged, lots come out here and over look storage capacity for water then they put in ground water polluting septic systems that use their valuable water. they just can't help pushing that button (what a mind set hey), we have a composting loo and grey water goes to plants nothing wasted here and the material from the loo well what can i say bloody great in the gardens. yes you don't get much change from 10grand for most septics and some are dearer actually i don't think they get any change. for that 3k for a composting loo and 7k buys a lot of tanks well 4 X 5,400 gallon ones that is. anothe thing as well a fire pump is needed with a trailer and tank we can't offord one, then an emergency generator is needed if you get caught in a long blackout ice isn't readily available near by you have to save your food and you need to draw water, plus if there's a fire what do you do if you have an electric fire pump, the list goes on. and lots of this advice can't be gleened before you move to rural. so you find it very rapidly that it can be very very expensive exercise, we hope to set up an online business to help people in looking for good land and to educate them about what moving to rural realy means, it simply doesn't mean somewhere to run a couple of nags for the kids and more room for the kids to make whoopee in. and no bush spirit anymore well least ways not in qld all other folk out here are here for their own ends and they pretty much keep to themselves, some even turn phones off or down and won't answer them after about 11pm so pity help the neighbour who need urgent help hey? i sorta remember better days in rural but like the degregated land that is all gone. because of a lack of stores there is also things that you can't get when you want them. take care fran len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/ my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send. |
#40
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"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
Well, for 18 years we used to cut 20 tons of hardwood every year. I read this last night but for some reason it wasn't till this morning that what you actually worte hit home. What the hell were you doing with 20 tons of hardwood each year? We get 4 ton and that is for 6 months of fires? |
#41
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"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
from "Fran" contains these words: "Janet Baraclough" wrote in message Well, for 18 years we used to cut 20 tons of hardwood every year. I read this last night but for some reason it wasn't till this morning that what you actually worte hit home. What the hell were you doing with 20 tons of hardwood each year? For nine months of the year, the wood stove would be running 24 hours a day, and would be lit nearly every evening in the other 3.The first one we had, also heated all our water and ran hot-water radiators in every room. Yes I figured you burned wood for 24 hours a day and for a long time but then we also use that 4 tons for heating water, cookinand running radiators and that is for the full 6 months and we also burn another fire for at least 2 months of the coldest part of the year. We get 4 ton and that is for 6 months of fires? Yes, but you live in a continental climate with different winter and summer conditions from our maritime one. The house was in an exposed spot in a cold, windy part of Scotland with only three frost-free months. Winter lows were usually in the mid-teens (C), coldest we experienced was -24C. In midwinter at this latitude, it's dark 16 hours a day (reduced solar gain), during day the sun is very low on the horizon, and high wind and rain are an almost constant cooling factor. Throughout summer, the evening temperature in Scotland after a cloudy day, is often cool enough to need a fire or heating of some kind. I know you live in a poopy climate but then this area has also been known to get frosts in every month of the year (including snow on Xmas day would you believe!) and it gets cold here too - nothing as low as -24 but it still gets down to about -9 in the nearest city so that is prolly about -14 here. However, even keeping my fires roaring and the thermostat on the highest I'd be hard pressed to burn more than that 4 tons for the 6 months. I was just curious as to what would get through 20 tons /year when I thought we both had a similar domestic heating/cooking/water set up. |
#42
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In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote: Agreed so far as transport and shop prices for foods go, but in other Don't you live in a really tiny country? :-) Here, transport is a HUGE cost for the rural areas. Petrol is dearer because it has to be trucked in (and then you have to use a lot more to get anywhere), food is dearer because it has to be trucked in... then factor in the effect of low levels of competition! I'm guessing that I pay a little under $1/litre here in Sydney, but I only use about 40 litres a week. I certainly noticed the higher food prices when I was on holiday in Perth last year -- there hasn't been a huge effect on Sydney food prices yet, at least not the stuff that I buy. For example, I can buy a side of lamb from a wholesale butcher for $6/kg. Two years ago it was $5.80/kg. OTOH retail butchers charge amazingly -- lamb cutlets have roughly doubled in price in the same period (I've seen them for $32/kg!). If I had no wholesale butcher near me, I *would* have seen the difference in the meat budget. ways living in the sticks can be cheaper than urban /city life. Local taxes and all insurances are cheaper, Not sure about this -- it's difficult to judge such things across different countries. House insurance might not be cheaper in rural Aust. due to the increased flood and fire risk in the country. and in a cold climate, there's a big saving in fuel costs from plenty of free wood for heating. Um, yes, but Len isn't in a cooler climate! His heating needs would be quite modest compared to yours. Private water and sewage systems (unavailable in suburbs/cities here) are far, far cheaper than the charges for public water/sewage. Again, this is a local thing. Water rates (which include sewerage) in Australia are ridiculously low for city-dwellers and do not reflect the (un)availability of the resource. Don't get me started on that one! -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet |
#43
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"Chookie" wrote in
Janet Baraclough wrote: Agreed so far as transport and shop prices for foods go, but in other Don't you live in a really tiny country? :-) Hmmmm. It never, ever, feels smaller to me. It's may be tiny geographically but boy is it packed with the most super interesting stuff - acre for acre, I'd holiday in Britain over Oz any day of the week. Here, transport is a HUGE cost for the rural areas. Petrol is dearer because it has to be trucked in (and then you have to use a lot more to get anywhere), food is dearer because it has to be trucked in... then factor in the effect of low levels of competition! I'm guessing that I pay a little under $1/litre here in Sydney, but I only use about 40 litres a week. The highest price for petrol that I know about is about $1.50 somewhere in teh bowels of NE South Oz, but I suspect that even that is cheaper than the average price in the UK. Their prices are ludicrously high, so thankfully the 4 hour trip from one side of the country to the other is so short. :-)) I certainly noticed the higher food prices when I was on holiday in Perth last year -- there hasn't been a huge effect on Sydney food prices yet, at least not the stuff that I buy. For example, I can buy a side of lamb from a wholesale butcher for $6/kg. Two years ago it was $5.80/kg. OTOH retail butchers charge amazingly -- lamb cutlets have roughly doubled in price in the same period (I've seen them for $32/kg!). If I had no wholesale butcher near me, I *would* have seen the difference in the meat budget. ways living in the sticks can be cheaper than urban /city life. Local taxes and all insurances are cheaper, Not sure about this -- it's difficult to judge such things across different countries. House insurance might not be cheaper in rural Aust. due to the increased flood and fire risk in the country. |
#44
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In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote: The message from Chookie contains these words: In article , Janet Baraclough wrote: Agreed so far as transport and shop prices for foods go, but in other Don't you live in a really tiny country? :-) Yes, but its too crowded and cool to produce anywhere near enough food to support its population. The vast majority of our food is imported and has travelled thousands of miles from warmer climates. Once it arrives, it still has to be distributed. All fuel here is very heavily taxed. The further a UK location is from a distribution/manufacturing centre, the more it costs to deliver food, petrol and goods. I hadn't thought about the cost of importation; that probably evens things up a bit. Glad there are permies who are doing their bit for the self-sufficiency of your food supply! But I still think our idea of "remote" is probably a bit more remote than your idea -- unless "remote" to you is the Falklands! What I mean is: assuming our cars have similar fuel efficiency, a remote Aussie will still use much more petrol because they have further to travel. snip I'm guessing that I pay a little under $1/litre here in Sydney, That's about 38 UK pence per litre. The city price in the UK, is 80 UK pence per litre, (over 2 AUS dollars per litre). The rural price where I live, is 95 UK pence per litre. Careful; you'd have to look at it as a percentage of the average wage, or some other equalising factor. Our average wage is about AUD38K, according to our Bureau of Statistics; would UKP 10K be near your average wage? When in Aus a couple of years ago, we were amazed by how low all food costs were compared to the UK. I have heard Aussies complaining about the high cost of food in the UK. (Is that why all teh extras on shows like The Bill look sickly?) Where did you look at prices, btw? There is still a big cost difference between the food prices I can get locally and the prices in (say) Oodnadatta. Land prices in Sydney are, of course, ridiculous, and this is where we might be looking at the swings and roundabouts. I remember a Frenchman told me a few years ago that for the cost of the average house here, you could buy a chateau in France! Presumably you would have to take servicing the mortgage over eating. -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) "In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is nothing worth being eager or vigorous about." Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893. |
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