We are NOT diy'ers at all. And generally are clueless on how to fix things.
So I throwing out a problem and
what we think may be wrong to see if you all think we are on the right
track.
We have a sump pump (ya I know expensive to run) that powers our waterfall.
It is only a year old with about 2 1/2 months 24/7 running time last summer
and about the same this summer. It is off during the winter.The waterfall
pump shut down and has in fact only a trickle of water coming down. At
first I thought the pump had just shut off maybe a circut was tripped or
something. I thought the trickle was just the top tier of the waterfall
draining down. Anyway, I checked the circuit breakers and moved the ones to
the waterfall back and forth essentially turned the pump off/on. The
waterfall than had a little more water coming down but no where near the
volume that is normal. Not even half the volume. I look at the pressurized
filter and it was not readying the usual 5 psi that it does when normal flow
is there. We are thinking something is obstructing the water between the
pump and filter would that be a good guess. Since the pump is fairly new and
and industrial pump we don't think the pump is the problem. What do you
think? Anything else we should look at?
Sorry if this seems like dumb questions, like I said we are clueless on
fixing things.

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:30:27 CST, "Goldlexus"
wrote:

We are NOT diy'ers at all. And generally are clueless on how to fix things.
So I throwing out a problem and
what we think may be wrong to see if you all think we are on the right
track.
We have a sump pump (ya I know expensive to run) that powers our waterfall.
It is only a year old with about 2 1/2 months 24/7 running time last summer
and about the same this summer. It is off during the winter.The waterfall
pump shut down and has in fact only a trickle of water coming down. At
first I thought the pump had just shut off maybe a circut was tripped or
something. I thought the trickle was just the top tier of the waterfall
draining down. Anyway, I checked the circuit breakers and moved the ones to
the waterfall back and forth essentially turned the pump off/on. The
waterfall than had a little more water coming down but no where near the
volume that is normal. Not even half the volume. I look at the pressurized
filter and it was not readying the usual 5 psi that it does when normal flow
is there. We are thinking something is obstructing the water between the
pump and filter would that be a good guess. Since the pump is fairly new and
and industrial pump we don't think the pump is the problem. What do you
think? Anything else we should look at?
Sorry if this seems like dumb questions, like I said we are clueless on
fixing things.

Is the pump protected in the pond, or just bare? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

It is kinda protected. It has a lot of rocks around it, the suction hole is
on the bottom of the pump not the kind that sticks out the side, it has a
gutter gauard around it to keep fish from getting sucked up. So far we have
moved a lot of rocks around it, we were unable to get fully under the pump
but thought maybe it was cleared enough. We plugged in the pump and it has
more water volume than before but not where it should be. The pressurized
filter usually reads just under 5 psi, when we plugged it back in just now
it read just a little over 3 psi. Prior to clearing somethings around it it
read barely 2 psi. So we are on the right track I think just didn't get it
all maybe. I don't know In the meantime the pipe that comes to the top
of the filter has a sprung a pin whole leak so we need to fix that. So we
have the pump off until we can get in there a clear more rocks and repair
the pin whole leak. BTW while we had the filter apart we sprayed water thru'
the pipe back into the pump to hopefully push out what ever may be there.
Our pump is a sump pump and is suppose to handle solids up to 2".
"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:30:27 CST, "Goldlexus"
wrote:

We are NOT diy'ers at all. And generally are clueless on how to fix
things.
So I throwing out a problem and
what we think may be wrong to see if you all think we are on the right
track.
We have a sump pump (ya I know expensive to run) that powers our
waterfall.
It is only a year old with about 2 1/2 months 24/7 running time last
summer
and about the same this summer. It is off during the winter.The waterfall
pump shut down and has in fact only a trickle of water coming down. At
first I thought the pump had just shut off maybe a circut was tripped or
something. I thought the trickle was just the top tier of the waterfall
draining down. Anyway, I checked the circuit breakers and moved the ones
to
the waterfall back and forth essentially turned the pump off/on. The
waterfall than had a little more water coming down but no where near the
volume that is normal. Not even half the volume. I look at the pressurized
filter and it was not readying the usual 5 psi that it does when normal
flow
is there. We are thinking something is obstructing the water between the
pump and filter would that be a good guess. Since the pump is fairly new
and
and industrial pump we don't think the pump is the problem. What do you
think? Anything else we should look at?
Sorry if this seems like dumb questions, like I said we are clueless on
fixing things.

Is the pump protected in the pond, or just bare? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Sounds like you will want to take a good look at the pump itself and
at the pipes to the filter. I gather your backflush was successful?
Does water flow freely to the pump? Can you see it flow freely out of
the pipe! If so, the pump is likely to be your problem. Not news,
eh.

Good luck.

Jim

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:57:59 CST, "Goldlexus"
wrote:

It is kinda protected. It has a lot of rocks around it, the suction hole is
on the bottom of the pump not the kind that sticks out the side, it has a
gutter gauard around it to keep fish from getting sucked up. So far we have
moved a lot of rocks around it, we were unable to get fully under the pump
but thought maybe it was cleared enough. We plugged in the pump and it has
more water volume than before but not where it should be. The pressurized
filter usually reads just under 5 psi, when we plugged it back in just now
it read just a little over 3 psi. Prior to clearing somethings around it it
read barely 2 psi. So we are on the right track I think just didn't get it
all maybe. I don't know In the meantime the pipe that comes to the top
of the filter has a sprung a pin whole leak so we need to fix that. So we
have the pump off until we can get in there a clear more rocks and repair
the pin whole leak. BTW while we had the filter apart we sprayed water thru'
the pipe back into the pump to hopefully push out what ever may be there.
Our pump is a sump pump and is suppose to handle solids up to 2".

If you have to pull the pump out, and I'd suggest you do. Clear the area
around the impeller. Then put the pump in something like this:

http://users.owt.com/jjspond/koipond/photos/set1/09.jpg

Even though the pump can handle solids, a 2" rock, snail shell or fish
parts could clog it or slow it down. The mesh baskets give lots of surface
area. I've had the lily pond one done like this for 2-3 years now, and
haven't had a need to pull it out of the pond. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

We can't see much of anything. It is a submersible pump and the pond water
is pretty cloudy now. I am thinking if it is the pump than there would not
have been any change to the water flow from the trickle we had at less than
2psi to a more vigorous flow we got after clearing rocks and such and
getting a little more than 3psi almost 4 psi. It is almost pumping water
like it should but not quite. I would think no matter what we did if a
trickle is what we go before a trickle is what we would get after. Does that
make sense?


"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sounds like you will want to take a good look at the pump itself and
at the pipes to the filter. I gather your backflush was successful?
Does water flow freely to the pump? Can you see it flow freely out of
the pipe! If so, the pump is likely to be your problem. Not news,
eh.

Good luck.

Jim

Pulling the pump isn't easy. Unfortuantely it was plumbed (is that the right
word?) in to the pipe line and not with a cupling that you just unscrew
Pulling to pump out means draining the pond and sawing the pipe.
I can't imagine what is blocking the flow. One time, before we put this
gutter guard around the pump, a large goldfish got sucked in, went thru' the
pressurized filter and came shooting out at the top of the waterfall. Poor
guy died about 5 mins. after his trip. That is when we discovered that there
wasn't any screening or anything. So we improvised a basket around the pump
using gutter guards bent into a box shape. No more fish taking a trip up the
falls.
We will play around with it some more when the water settles some. We can
not see a thing now. Meanwhile I am pretty bummed out not knowing for sure
that it is just an obstruction. It sure seems like it might be since we are
did get more water volume/flow out that before we started clearing things
out. Like I said before if the pump itself was having problems it still
would have the same problem even after clearing out rocks. Right?

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:57:59 CST, "Goldlexus"
wrote:

It is kinda protected. It has a lot of rocks around it, the suction hole
is
on the bottom of the pump not the kind that sticks out the side, it has a
gutter gauard around it to keep fish from getting sucked up. So far we
have
moved a lot of rocks around it, we were unable to get fully under the pump
but thought maybe it was cleared enough. We plugged in the pump and it has
more water volume than before but not where it should be. The pressurized
filter usually reads just under 5 psi, when we plugged it back in just now
it read just a little over 3 psi. Prior to clearing somethings around it
it
read barely 2 psi. So we are on the right track I think just didn't get it
all maybe. I don't know In the meantime the pipe that comes to the top
of the filter has a sprung a pin whole leak so we need to fix that. So we
have the pump off until we can get in there a clear more rocks and repair
the pin whole leak. BTW while we had the filter apart we sprayed water
thru'
the pipe back into the pump to hopefully push out what ever may be there.
Our pump is a sump pump and is suppose to handle solids up to 2".

If you have to pull the pump out, and I'd suggest you do. Clear the area
around the impeller. Then put the pump in something like this:

http://users.owt.com/jjspond/koipond/photos/set1/09.jpg

Even though the pump can handle solids, a 2" rock, snail shell or fish
parts could clog it or slow it down. The mesh baskets give lots of surface
area. I've had the lily pond one done like this for 2-3 years now, and
haven't had a need to pull it out of the pond. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

We have pvc pipe and a screw on/off coupling. Could you cut your pipe
and add a screw coupling. It can't last forever and will need repair
at some time. Why not make a step now that will serve you in the
future.

Good luck

Jim

We will probably do just that. It will be MUCH easier. Last year when we
replaced the pump we hired someone to do it (like I said we are not diy'ers
and know nothing about plumbing) He didn't have the coupling so he just did
it permenantly. A real bummer now.
"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
We have pvc pipe and a screw on/off coupling. Could you cut your pipe
and add a screw coupling. It can't last forever and will need repair
at some time. Why not make a step now that will serve you in the
future.

Good luck

Jim

We will probably do just that. It will be MUCH easier. Last year when we
replaced the pump we hired someone to do it (like I said we are not diy'ers
and know nothing about plumbing) He didn't have the coupling so he just did
it permenantly. A real bummer now.
"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
We have pvc pipe and a screw on/off coupling. Could you cut your pipe
and add a screw coupling. It can't last forever and will need repair
at some time. Why not make a step now that will serve you in the
future.

Good luck

Jim

A sump pump is not made to run continously - it is intended for off/ on
usage - mostly off - you need to buy a "continous duty" water cooled pump -
that said, even though it will supposedly handle up to 2" solids, in a pond
they are dealing with the dying plant material, string algae etc. which will
plug up the intake screen - you will have to pull the pump and check the
intake screen and impeller - you're problem is probably there - if not, a
new pump will fix it
Gale :~)
"Goldlexus" wrote in message
newsKzji.31$475.16@trndny04...
We will probably do just that. It will be MUCH easier. Last year when we
replaced the pump we hired someone to do it (like I said we are not
diy'ers and know nothing about plumbing) He didn't have the coupling so he
just did it permenantly. A real bummer now.
"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
We have pvc pipe and a screw on/off coupling. Could you cut your pipe
and add a screw coupling. It can't last forever and will need repair
at some time. Why not make a step now that will serve you in the
future.

Good luck

Jim

On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 16:28:12 CST, "Goldlexus" wrote:

Pulling the pump isn't easy. Unfortuantely it was plumbed (is that the right
word?) in to the pipe line

Right word, and I was worried it might be hard piped. If you continue to
have problems and need to call someone out. Tell them to saw the pipe up
high, install a camlock fitting and flex hose to the pipe. That way if
and/or when you need to replace the pump, it would be an easy switch for a
non-DYI. Or very quick if you have to hire someone.

One time, before we put this
gutter guard around the pump, a large goldfish got sucked in, went thru' the
pressurized filter and came shooting out at the top of the waterfall. Poor
guy died about 5 mins. after his trip.

I guess it can handle solids, sheesh! I'm surprised the fish came out even
recognizable, let alone alive enough to survive 5 minutes after! That's
some pump.

What brand and how old is it, btw?

Gutter guard, metal or plastic mesh to keep leaves out of gutters, right?
Seems that would do as well as a mesh basket. The mesh isn't blocked
perhaps preventing flow? How deep is it in the pond?

Like I said before if the pump itself was having problems it still
would have the same problem even after clearing out rocks. Right?

Not if the rock is the problem. Back flushing is probably the best thing
you can do at this time, with as much pressure as you can. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Maybe 'sump' pump isn't the right description. It is a Submersible sewage
pump and according to the pamphlet that came with the pump it is designed
for continous operation. It is a new pump with only about 4 months of usage
between last summer when it was installed and this summer. We had the very
same pump in the pond for over 7 years before that pump completely died. It
does not have a screen on the intake. The previous pump didn't either being
as we had fish get sucked up and shooting out of the waterfall.
This is the pump we have:
http://www.goulds.com/product.asp?ID=140&MASTERID=4
It says that it has a " Dynamically Balanced Non-Clog Impeller" . But I
think things, rocks and whatever, can still impede water flow . The pump has
some serious suction ,who knows what it has been sucked into it's path. We
are able to get fully under it right now. We moved what we could this
morning hoping that would do it. It made things better but not quite the way
it should be.

"G Pearce" wrote in message
...
A sump pump is not made to run continously - it is intended for off/ on
usage - mostly off - you need to buy a "continous duty" water cooled pump -
that said, even though it will supposedly handle up to 2" solids, in a pond
they are dealing with the dying plant material, string algae etc. which
will plug up the intake screen - you will have to pull the pump and check
the intake screen and impeller - you're problem is probably there - if not,
a new pump will fix it
Gale :~)
"Goldlexus" wrote in message
newsKzji.31$475.16@trndny04...
We will probably do just that. It will be MUCH easier. Last year when we
replaced the pump we hired someone to do it (like I said we are not
diy'ers and know nothing about plumbing) He didn't have the coupling so
he just did it permenantly. A real bummer now.
"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
We have pvc pipe and a screw on/off coupling. Could you cut your pipe
and add a screw coupling. It can't last forever and will need repair
at some time. Why not make a step now that will serve you in the
future.

Good luck

Jim

We now have a thousand speculative analyses of your problem. Please
let us know whatyou do and how it works out. Photos are always nice!
(tho' not ok on rpm).

Jim

No kidding. This group is great group with a lot of knowledge and
willingness to share that knowledge. It is so
appreciated.
Hubby got into the pond again this evening after work and moved more rocks.
He was able to get his hand into
the suction hole on the bottom to feel around. Nothing there but the
impeller which moved freely. So we plugged it in to
see if there was any difference, there was none Still getting 3psi thru'
the pressurized filter. Needs to be at 5 to get the water flow coming out of
the waterfall the way we like it. So we need to make sure nothing is in the
pipe going from the pump to the filter. We don't know exactly how to do that
with out cutting the pipe at the pump. It is only about 5-6 feet of pipe
length from pump to filter with most of the pipe a bit under ground. Would
using a plumbing snake work? Putting the snake thru' at the open end of the
filter? Once we have eliminated a clog in the pipe than we will have to look
at the pump as our problem. Although I am not entirely sure it is the pump
but after a process of elimination I don't know where else to look but the
pump.
Right now the quietness in my backyard is driving me nuts! I love the sound
of the waterfall especially at night. sigh
I will keep you all posted for sure.

"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
ps.com...
We now have a thousand speculative analyses of your problem. Please
let us know whatyou do and how it works out. Photos are always nice!
(tho' not ok on rpm).

Jim