On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:59:23 GMT, Gary Woods
wrote:

~ jan wrote:

If you ALL are against this type of nastiness you could at least clean up
the Subject line,

I did, in fact; the other two participants would rather urinate upwind than
actually discuss ponding.

LOL! Just don't do it in the direction of the pond... unless there are no
fish and you're trying to do a fishless cycle of a new filter. ;-)

Now that a Decent Time Interval has passed, I'll go looking for a successor
to the dear departed Walter this spring. There's a pond place with Koi not
far away down the hill (from here, _everything_ is down the hill).

Cool. Will you get more than one?

My son recently got platys for one of his aquariums and I've been marveling
at how colorful they are now. Not that that has anything to do with Wally,
but just mentioning the interest in numbers. ;-) ~ jan

Zëbulon wrote:
Then find a way to SHUT HIM UP so people can post about ponds and fish
again.

People have been talking about ponds, I've posted a couple of times.

SNIP..... once you start to outright lie and ASSUME things to benefit
your agenda it's time to stop communicating with you.

All your detractors, according to you, lie and assume things to benefit
their agenda and yet you're still keep communicating with them, how is Gill
different? ~ jan --- just curious

"Gary Woods" wrote in message
...
I'm a little concerned about a population explosion.... it's a
medium-largish earth pond, and I couldn't really control the numbers.
Don't know if you can get triploid/sterile koi as you can (must in NY)
with
Grass Carp.
Can I teach them abstinence?
==================
Buy older koi that are already sexed. In an open pond predators will help
control the koi population. If our ponds weren't netted we wouldn't have any
fish at all.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
Zëbulon wrote:
Then find a way to SHUT HIM UP so people can post about ponds and fish
again.

People have been talking about ponds, I've posted a couple of times.

SNIP..... once you start to outright lie and ASSUME things to benefit
your agenda it's time to stop communicating with you.

All your detractors, according to you, lie and assume things to benefit
their agenda

You mean they're telling the truth that I'm a murderess, a prostitute, a
gangster, a child abuser and neglecter, a carpetbagger, etc? Do you
actually believe my husband and son are rapists and pedophiles? Or are these
lies? LOL!!!! :-D Tell me Jan.... do you actually believe that BS?

and yet you're still keep communicating with them, how is Gill
different? ~ jan --- just curious

Is she?
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"PonderKoi" aka JABBERS wrote in message
ps.com...
And here is the evidence, I guess Jayne should feel like an
incompetent fool about now. Rec.ponds.moderated is being created to
get rid of Carol.

Really Antonio? Read this and weep......

"John Baker" wrote in message
...
On 13 Feb 2007 04:29:53 -0800, "PonderKoi"
wrote:

And here is the evidence, I guess Jayne should feel like an
incompetent fool about now. Rec.ponds.moderated is being created to
get rid of Carol.

You're a lying sack of shit, Jabbers. It's to get rid of *you.*

"Nigel Sixsmith" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:18:13 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

A request.

Can, when people are discussing this particular subject, stop
crossposting to news.groups (or anywhere else for that matter)

Please check where you are responding to, as well as who you are
responding to.

This actually all belongs in alt.flame or whatever but I am sure that's
not going to stop people posting this crap to news.groups or even
rec.ponds where, frankly, it has no place either.

FWIW, from an outsiders point of view, this recent set of outbursts is
all about power, insecurities and control

(I'm going to use plurals instead of naming people because to be honest,
there are so many nyms, impersonations and socks flying around, it's
hard to know what any individual's name really is!)

When a similar flame war disrupted a favorite group that i used to
participate, someone with a lot more experience of Usenet than I,
offered me and the others there some advice. We choose to ignore that
advice and with hindsight, that is why the group died along with the
group of friends that had taken part in the great discussions and
debates that were held there.

If i were to apply the same advice to this current flame war it would be
something like;

There are some people who realize they are going to lose their audience
rec.ponds and so they are trying every trick in the book to cause as
much disruption as possible, while they still can. They are obviously
also trying to prevent others from being welcome in the new group so
that they can claim they "won" and falling for the same crap over and
over again, does no one justice at all, let alone the two main
protagonists!

There are other people who are feeling extremely insecure because of
these continued attacks on them and so, they start to suspect everyone
as being a potential enemy and react accordingly. To them, I say...
Chill out and be patient and as soon as the new group is actually
created, peace will reign again so long as these people do not continue
to read or post to rec.ponds and continue the flame war in there. I know
it's asking a lot for some people not to read rec.ponds but it truly is
in their best interests, long term not to do so.

The control issue is the big one as far as all are concerned and that
includes the forthcoming moderators of the new moderated group. As I
said in n.g.p., if the moderators *only* moderate based on content, then
that will resolve about 99% of all the issues that currently go on in
rec.ponds. Take control of your new group and make it the *right* place
to talk about ponds and fish. Don't fall into the trap of believing half
the crap that each of the main protagonists say about each other, and
even consider moderating on who is posting, not what is being posted,
because most of this crap is based on either attacks or defenses to
those attacks and so little is probably true or even makes much sense to
anyone except themselves.

This flame war will continue, probably unabated in rec.ponds for some
time to come and unless one of the protagonists learns to ignore what is
said and stop worrying what other people think about what is being said,
the war will continue ad nauseam as it has done so in the past.

The good thing is that the moderators can and hopefully will, stop the
flame wars in the new group so while it will continue, (as I am sure it
will because I do not believe for one moment that any of the 'ring
leaders' wants to really 'lose' in their mind and so they all keep
trying to 'win') it will continue without the new group as it's
audience.

The final little bit of advice, for what it is worth, is that anyone
else needs to stay out of any discussions revolving around this stupid
flame war. You are feeding the flames, increasing the insecurities and
prolonging the war by doing so.

It doesn't matter what the protagonists say or do any longer.. in
rec.ponds. Just stick to your new group, ignore any attempts by anyone
to 'win' you over to one side or the other , moderate based purely on
content and the new group will be a resounding success.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this.

The rest is up to you all of course.
=====================
Very well said. This is the most sensible post I've read on this group in
months. Thank you. :-)

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Yep, and Carol is one of those two that is mentioned, Shut the hell
up Carol you ignorant fool.......you don;t have a clue..........you
dimwit carpet bagger. Is your panties all wadded up there ACrol,
seems pretty obvious, no one has any compasion for your bullshit and
lies any mnore they all know you alal too well, and do not like what
they see. Your days in anay group is numbered by your own hand and
reputation. Just give it time, you'll see! The old saying give someone
enough rope and they will hang themselves, well thats you to a T. Your
already teeteering on the edge now bozo!

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:15:42 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Nigel Sixsmith" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:18:13 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

A request.

Can, when people are discussing this particular subject, stop
crossposting to news.groups (or anywhere else for that matter)

Please check where you are responding to, as well as who you are
responding to.

This actually all belongs in alt.flame or whatever but I am sure that's
not going to stop people posting this crap to news.groups or even
rec.ponds where, frankly, it has no place either.

FWIW, from an outsiders point of view, this recent set of outbursts is
all about power, insecurities and control

(I'm going to use plurals instead of naming people because to be honest,
there are so many nyms, impersonations and socks flying around, it's
hard to know what any individual's name really is!)

When a similar flame war disrupted a favorite group that i used to
participate, someone with a lot more experience of Usenet than I,
offered me and the others there some advice. We choose to ignore that
advice and with hindsight, that is why the group died along with the
group of friends that had taken part in the great discussions and
debates that were held there.

If i were to apply the same advice to this current flame war it would be
something like;

There are some people who realize they are going to lose their audience
rec.ponds and so they are trying every trick in the book to cause as
much disruption as possible, while they still can. They are obviously
also trying to prevent others from being welcome in the new group so
that they can claim they "won" and falling for the same crap over and
over again, does no one justice at all, let alone the two main
protagonists!

There are other people who are feeling extremely insecure because of
these continued attacks on them and so, they start to suspect everyone
as being a potential enemy and react accordingly. To them, I say...
Chill out and be patient and as soon as the new group is actually
created, peace will reign again so long as these people do not continue
to read or post to rec.ponds and continue the flame war in there. I know
it's asking a lot for some people not to read rec.ponds but it truly is
in their best interests, long term not to do so.

The control issue is the big one as far as all are concerned and that
includes the forthcoming moderators of the new moderated group. As I
said in n.g.p., if the moderators *only* moderate based on content, then
that will resolve about 99% of all the issues that currently go on in
rec.ponds. Take control of your new group and make it the *right* place
to talk about ponds and fish. Don't fall into the trap of believing half
the crap that each of the main protagonists say about each other, and
even consider moderating on who is posting, not what is being posted,
because most of this crap is based on either attacks or defenses to
those attacks and so little is probably true or even makes much sense to
anyone except themselves.

This flame war will continue, probably unabated in rec.ponds for some
time to come and unless one of the protagonists learns to ignore what is
said and stop worrying what other people think about what is being said,
the war will continue ad nauseam as it has done so in the past.

The good thing is that the moderators can and hopefully will, stop the
flame wars in the new group so while it will continue, (as I am sure it
will because I do not believe for one moment that any of the 'ring
leaders' wants to really 'lose' in their mind and so they all keep
trying to 'win') it will continue without the new group as it's
audience.

The final little bit of advice, for what it is worth, is that anyone
else needs to stay out of any discussions revolving around this stupid
flame war. You are feeding the flames, increasing the insecurities and
prolonging the war by doing so.

It doesn't matter what the protagonists say or do any longer.. in
rec.ponds. Just stick to your new group, ignore any attempts by anyone
to 'win' you over to one side or the other , moderate based purely on
content and the new group will be a resounding success.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this.

The rest is up to you all of course.
=====================
Very well said. This is the most sensible post I've read on this group in
months. Thank you. :-)



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Amazing how you can take this:

All your detractors, according to you, lie and assume things to benefit
their agenda and yet you're still keep communicating with them, how is Gill
different? ~ jan --- just curious

And turn it into this:

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:40:02 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:
You mean they're telling the truth that I'm a murderess, a prostitute, a
gangster, a child abuser and neglecter, a carpetbagger, etc? Do you
actually believe my husband and son are rapists and pedophiles? Or are these
lies? LOL!!!! :-D Tell me Jan.... do you actually believe that BS?

Is this all about poor comprehension?

I'll make the question simpler and see if you can answer it this time:

You say, all your detractors lie and assume things to benefit their agenda
and yet you're still keep communicating with them, why is that? ~ jan

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
Amazing how you can take this:

All your detractors, according to you, lie and assume things to benefit
their agenda and yet you're still keep communicating with them, how is
Gill
different? ~ jan --- just curious

And turn it into this:

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:40:02 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:
You mean they're telling the truth that I'm a murderess, a prostitute, a
gangster, a child abuser and neglecter, a carpetbagger, etc? Do you
actually believe my husband and son are rapists and pedophiles? Or are
these
lies? LOL!!!! :-D Tell me Jan.... do you actually believe that BS?

Is this all about poor comprehension?

You tell me. She claims I admitted trolling the trolls just because I
didn't deny it. I didn't deny the other things either. Why bother?

I'll make the question simpler and see if you can answer it this time:

You say, all your detractors lie and assume things to benefit their agenda
and yet you're still keep communicating with them, why is that? ~ jan

And I answered your question. Do YOU have reading comprehension problems Jan
or are you "pack attacking" me as this website explains? It sure looks like
it. You learned the art of trolling and harassment very well. Your
psychology wont wok so don't waste your time. Find another way to get rid
of them.

Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
http://www.ganesha.org/ptb/hipcrime.html
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

You say, all your detractors lie and assume things to benefit their agenda
and yet you're still keep communicating with them, why is that? ~ jan

And I answered your question.

No, you still have not. So I'll try once more, You said Gill believes the
above, so you were going to stop communication. Yet you're still
communicating........ ah heck, never mind. ~ jan

Jan, you werent around when she destroyed the goldfish list (altho with help). it is
a purpose of sorts, the destroy things. Ingrid


~ janj wrote:

n Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:42:39 -0600, Tristan wrote:

I disagree. I don't think it is your responsibility to give her attention.
If she's giving bad advice, point it out. People will clue in quick enough.

Until CArol changes her view on things, I just feel I have no other
alternative than to do unto others as they do to me.

How's that working for you? I commend you for holding out the olive branch,
too bad Carol didn't grab on with both hands. Regardless, you too can walk
away from this. ~ jan



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:06:24 GMT, wrote:

Jan, you werent around when she destroyed the goldfish list (altho with help). it is
a purpose of sorts, the destroy things. Ingrid

Yep, can't wait for RPM when we can stop the insanity (we hope). ;-) ~ jan

wrote in message
...
Jan, you werent around when she destroyed the goldfish list (altho with
help). it is
a purpose of sorts, the destroy things. Ingrid
=============
The list was not "destroyed." No one offered to take it over so he shut it
down when unable to spare the time. You were already gone for several months
by then. It was quite active with over 100 posts some days!

We asked you to stop pushing your friend JoAnn's products on the list. To
stop spaming us. You took offense and left the list to start a list of your
own.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Nigel Sixsmith wrote:


Flagerist - Possible Acronym according to Flamers Weekly Digest

Fuels Lots of Anger and Goads Everyone into Reading Idiotic Senseless
Tripe



(No offense meant against anyone!)



It's a good one :-)

Thanks
Gill

Who the hell is WE carol, YOu you you and you only did it...well that
is along with your sock.......Who the hell are you to dictate what
Joann or Ingrid can or can not post when you seem to think your immune
to the same rules...your a freaking hipocrite bitch and you know your
disgusting and sick. Get help. Ingrids signature with joanns url is no
worse than your URL and certainly not even in the same league as your
floods of groups like last night..

Your a deceitfull venomeous bitch...plain and simple.




On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:02:25 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


wrote in message
...
Jan, you werent around when she destroyed the goldfish list (altho with
help). it is
a purpose of sorts, the destroy things. Ingrid
=============
The list was not "destroyed." No one offered to take it over so he shut it
down when unable to spare the time. You were already gone for several months
by then. It was quite active with over 100 posts some days!

We asked you to stop pushing your friend JoAnn's products on the list. To
stop spaming us. You took offense and left the list to start a list of your
own.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!