Son just came home and is furious with what they did to Harry Potter III.
He said his friends who haven't read the book or that have not done so in
quite awhile thought it was good but he found he was spending the whole time
yelling at the movie in his head for getting it so wrong (I mean how could
they have not put Crookshank in it other than as a walk on....). I'll not
go the theatre for this one.


"dkat" wrote in message
...
I have used the term 'darker' because that is the word that others use
(English is not my first language despite the fact that the U.S. of A is
where I was born and raised - maybe I should say because this is where I
was
born and raised...). It is odd that I thoroughly enjoy the Harry Potter
books as an adult but still see them as "children's" books and for that
reason find myself shocked when a "good" character actually dies or when
it
seems that evil wins out or gets stronger. I suppose that this is what I
mean by getting darker... As the series develops the "dark side" seems to
gain more and more power and even though Harry continues to conquer his
problems, there is the feeling that he has won a small battle only to
develop the strength to face the bigger one facing him in the near future.
Each ending seems to have more of a sense of suspense and greater danger
ahead. I suppose that is just life but it is not what I think of as the
ending of "children's" books. It is certainly appropriate though and
very
well done (except Damn it where are the 6th and 7th book!!!! How much
suspense are we expected to deal with! ). Anyway, I will have to see
the 3rd movie and enjoy it for the characters themselves - filling in the
missing and necessary parts in my minds view. I may though now not go to
the theatre and just wait for the DVD to come out to voice my opinion of
them cutting things to the bone with my $$$. I'll see what my son says
tonight (he and I have the same read on things).

IMO It really is insane of them not to make 2 movies out of the larger
books. Once they have things set up and rolling, the return on the money
has to be far greater doing 2 movies rather than one. If nothing else,
they
should do an extended version they can sell on the DVD as they did for
LOTR.
Sighhh - I hope this doesn't turn into them doing things on the cheap
because they think they have a captive audience.


wrote in message
...
I dont know where they get the idea of "darker".... the later books have
more serious
parts as the kids grow older. People get really hurt, people die.
English childrens
books are not as "fluffy". The lemony snicket (sp?) series is supposed
to
show kids
with difficulty (which I will read if I can get em back from my step
sister!).
Rowling is a very VERY tight writer. on her website she even talks
about
characters
she has dumped cause while interesting they didnt forward the story
properly. so
stripping stuff out of her books for the movies is very hard indeed.
they have dumped this director for one more like chris columbus from the
first two,
but then I hear they are doing GoF in a single movie, not two which is
going to be
very hard indeed seeing how everything is so tight already and the book
is
600? pages
long.
Rowling balances the good with the bad. this last movie stripped out
all
the good
and focused on the bad. Like the quiddich game where he falls when the
dementors get
in (they left this in). But after he learns the patronus charm the next
quiddich game
Malfoy et all show up looking like dementors but HP zaps em good and
wins
the game to
great celebration (they left this out).

some of these directors are morons. I dont think many of them had a nice
childhood so
they are going to ruin every one elses .... it isnt like we dont have
enough of
horror in reality without trying to poison and destroy the fantasy world
too.
Ingrid

"dkat" wrote:
Wow, really sorry to hear that. I had read that they had stripped the
movie
of all but the bones of the book (which explains how the longer book
could
be a shorter movie).... The books however do get darker as they go
along.... still this should not take away from the magic....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Son just came home and is furious with what they did to Harry Potter III.
He said his friends who haven't read the book or that have not done so in
quite awhile thought it was good but he found he was spending the whole time
yelling at the movie in his head for getting it so wrong (I mean how could
they have not put Crookshank in it other than as a walk on....). I'll not
go the theatre for this one.


"dkat" wrote in message
...
I have used the term 'darker' because that is the word that others use
(English is not my first language despite the fact that the U.S. of A is
where I was born and raised - maybe I should say because this is where I
was
born and raised...). It is odd that I thoroughly enjoy the Harry Potter
books as an adult but still see them as "children's" books and for that
reason find myself shocked when a "good" character actually dies or when
it
seems that evil wins out or gets stronger. I suppose that this is what I
mean by getting darker... As the series develops the "dark side" seems to
gain more and more power and even though Harry continues to conquer his
problems, there is the feeling that he has won a small battle only to
develop the strength to face the bigger one facing him in the near future.
Each ending seems to have more of a sense of suspense and greater danger
ahead. I suppose that is just life but it is not what I think of as the
ending of "children's" books. It is certainly appropriate though and
very
well done (except Damn it where are the 6th and 7th book!!!! How much
suspense are we expected to deal with! ). Anyway, I will have to see
the 3rd movie and enjoy it for the characters themselves - filling in the
missing and necessary parts in my minds view. I may though now not go to
the theatre and just wait for the DVD to come out to voice my opinion of
them cutting things to the bone with my $$$. I'll see what my son says
tonight (he and I have the same read on things).

IMO It really is insane of them not to make 2 movies out of the larger
books. Once they have things set up and rolling, the return on the money
has to be far greater doing 2 movies rather than one. If nothing else,
they
should do an extended version they can sell on the DVD as they did for
LOTR.
Sighhh - I hope this doesn't turn into them doing things on the cheap
because they think they have a captive audience.


wrote in message
...
I dont know where they get the idea of "darker".... the later books have
more serious
parts as the kids grow older. People get really hurt, people die.
English childrens
books are not as "fluffy". The lemony snicket (sp?) series is supposed
to
show kids
with difficulty (which I will read if I can get em back from my step
sister!).
Rowling is a very VERY tight writer. on her website she even talks
about
characters
she has dumped cause while interesting they didnt forward the story
properly. so
stripping stuff out of her books for the movies is very hard indeed.
they have dumped this director for one more like chris columbus from the
first two,
but then I hear they are doing GoF in a single movie, not two which is
going to be
very hard indeed seeing how everything is so tight already and the book
is
600? pages
long.
Rowling balances the good with the bad. this last movie stripped out
all
the good
and focused on the bad. Like the quiddich game where he falls when the
dementors get
in (they left this in). But after he learns the patronus charm the next
quiddich game
Malfoy et all show up looking like dementors but HP zaps em good and
wins
the game to
great celebration (they left this out).

some of these directors are morons. I dont think many of them had a nice
childhood so
they are going to ruin every one elses .... it isnt like we dont have
enough of
horror in reality without trying to poison and destroy the fantasy world
too.
Ingrid

"dkat" wrote:
Wow, really sorry to hear that. I had read that they had stripped the
movie
of all but the bones of the book (which explains how the longer book
could
be a shorter movie).... The books however do get darker as they go
along.... still this should not take away from the magic....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Son just came home and is furious with what they did to Harry Potter III.
He said his friends who haven't read the book or that have not done so in
quite awhile thought it was good but he found he was spending the whole time
yelling at the movie in his head for getting it so wrong (I mean how could
they have not put Crookshank in it other than as a walk on....). I'll not
go the theatre for this one.


"dkat" wrote in message
...
I have used the term 'darker' because that is the word that others use
(English is not my first language despite the fact that the U.S. of A is
where I was born and raised - maybe I should say because this is where I
was
born and raised...). It is odd that I thoroughly enjoy the Harry Potter
books as an adult but still see them as "children's" books and for that
reason find myself shocked when a "good" character actually dies or when
it
seems that evil wins out or gets stronger. I suppose that this is what I
mean by getting darker... As the series develops the "dark side" seems to
gain more and more power and even though Harry continues to conquer his
problems, there is the feeling that he has won a small battle only to
develop the strength to face the bigger one facing him in the near future.
Each ending seems to have more of a sense of suspense and greater danger
ahead. I suppose that is just life but it is not what I think of as the
ending of "children's" books. It is certainly appropriate though and
very
well done (except Damn it where are the 6th and 7th book!!!! How much
suspense are we expected to deal with! ). Anyway, I will have to see
the 3rd movie and enjoy it for the characters themselves - filling in the
missing and necessary parts in my minds view. I may though now not go to
the theatre and just wait for the DVD to come out to voice my opinion of
them cutting things to the bone with my $$$. I'll see what my son says
tonight (he and I have the same read on things).

IMO It really is insane of them not to make 2 movies out of the larger
books. Once they have things set up and rolling, the return on the money
has to be far greater doing 2 movies rather than one. If nothing else,
they
should do an extended version they can sell on the DVD as they did for
LOTR.
Sighhh - I hope this doesn't turn into them doing things on the cheap
because they think they have a captive audience.


wrote in message
...
I dont know where they get the idea of "darker".... the later books have
more serious
parts as the kids grow older. People get really hurt, people die.
English childrens
books are not as "fluffy". The lemony snicket (sp?) series is supposed
to
show kids
with difficulty (which I will read if I can get em back from my step
sister!).
Rowling is a very VERY tight writer. on her website she even talks
about
characters
she has dumped cause while interesting they didnt forward the story
properly. so
stripping stuff out of her books for the movies is very hard indeed.
they have dumped this director for one more like chris columbus from the
first two,
but then I hear they are doing GoF in a single movie, not two which is
going to be
very hard indeed seeing how everything is so tight already and the book
is
600? pages
long.
Rowling balances the good with the bad. this last movie stripped out
all
the good
and focused on the bad. Like the quiddich game where he falls when the
dementors get
in (they left this in). But after he learns the patronus charm the next
quiddich game
Malfoy et all show up looking like dementors but HP zaps em good and
wins
the game to
great celebration (they left this out).

some of these directors are morons. I dont think many of them had a nice
childhood so
they are going to ruin every one elses .... it isnt like we dont have
enough of
horror in reality without trying to poison and destroy the fantasy world
too.
Ingrid

"dkat" wrote:
Wow, really sorry to hear that. I had read that they had stripped the
movie
of all but the bones of the book (which explains how the longer book
could
be a shorter movie).... The books however do get darker as they go
along.... still this should not take away from the magic....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Son just came home and is furious with what they did to Harry Potter III.
He said his friends who haven't read the book or that have not done so in
quite awhile thought it was good but he found he was spending the whole time
yelling at the movie in his head for getting it so wrong (I mean how could
they have not put Crookshank in it other than as a walk on....). I'll not
go the theatre for this one.


"dkat" wrote in message
...
I have used the term 'darker' because that is the word that others use
(English is not my first language despite the fact that the U.S. of A is
where I was born and raised - maybe I should say because this is where I
was
born and raised...). It is odd that I thoroughly enjoy the Harry Potter
books as an adult but still see them as "children's" books and for that
reason find myself shocked when a "good" character actually dies or when
it
seems that evil wins out or gets stronger. I suppose that this is what I
mean by getting darker... As the series develops the "dark side" seems to
gain more and more power and even though Harry continues to conquer his
problems, there is the feeling that he has won a small battle only to
develop the strength to face the bigger one facing him in the near future.
Each ending seems to have more of a sense of suspense and greater danger
ahead. I suppose that is just life but it is not what I think of as the
ending of "children's" books. It is certainly appropriate though and
very
well done (except Damn it where are the 6th and 7th book!!!! How much
suspense are we expected to deal with! ). Anyway, I will have to see
the 3rd movie and enjoy it for the characters themselves - filling in the
missing and necessary parts in my minds view. I may though now not go to
the theatre and just wait for the DVD to come out to voice my opinion of
them cutting things to the bone with my $$$. I'll see what my son says
tonight (he and I have the same read on things).

IMO It really is insane of them not to make 2 movies out of the larger
books. Once they have things set up and rolling, the return on the money
has to be far greater doing 2 movies rather than one. If nothing else,
they
should do an extended version they can sell on the DVD as they did for
LOTR.
Sighhh - I hope this doesn't turn into them doing things on the cheap
because they think they have a captive audience.


wrote in message
...
I dont know where they get the idea of "darker".... the later books have
more serious
parts as the kids grow older. People get really hurt, people die.
English childrens
books are not as "fluffy". The lemony snicket (sp?) series is supposed
to
show kids
with difficulty (which I will read if I can get em back from my step
sister!).
Rowling is a very VERY tight writer. on her website she even talks
about
characters
she has dumped cause while interesting they didnt forward the story
properly. so
stripping stuff out of her books for the movies is very hard indeed.
they have dumped this director for one more like chris columbus from the
first two,
but then I hear they are doing GoF in a single movie, not two which is
going to be
very hard indeed seeing how everything is so tight already and the book
is
600? pages
long.
Rowling balances the good with the bad. this last movie stripped out
all
the good
and focused on the bad. Like the quiddich game where he falls when the
dementors get
in (they left this in). But after he learns the patronus charm the next
quiddich game
Malfoy et all show up looking like dementors but HP zaps em good and
wins
the game to
great celebration (they left this out).

some of these directors are morons. I dont think many of them had a nice
childhood so
they are going to ruin every one elses .... it isnt like we dont have
enough of
horror in reality without trying to poison and destroy the fantasy world
too.
Ingrid

"dkat" wrote:
Wow, really sorry to hear that. I had read that they had stripped the
movie
of all but the bones of the book (which explains how the longer book
could
be a shorter movie).... The books however do get darker as they go
along.... still this should not take away from the magic....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

The problem is that we now live in a world that feels as if those you
parodied will soon be the people who control all. They currently control
many school boards which is why schools are teaching the bible as science
and banning the teaching of evolution. They are President Bush's base which
he caters to and they seem to gain more power each election. It is no
longer easy to tell when someone is funning because the fundamentalist
culture believes what you said in your original post. We are not talking
the fringe edge that keeps to itself anymore. Science and medicine is now
being dictated to by religious extremist. So yes, sadly, you really do have
to put a smiley face on what was not too long ago considered way to crazy to
be anything other than a joke.


"Evil Noodle" wrote in message
...

"axeman chris" wrote in message
...

"Evil Noodle" wrote in message
news:5Yrwc.144$SC4.67@newsfe5-win...

wrote in message
...
I hated it. it is a dark and grubby movie with dark and grubby
"realistic" sets.
the director stripped nearly all the magic out of the film ... and
stripped
out all the fun and warmth. yech.... Ingrid

Harry Potter is the work of the Devil and should be shunned for the
deviant filth it is.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1199/potter.html


Perhaps a troll, but the web site is hilarious!

Jacqui

No troll intended, just a sense of humour some didn't appreciate and
I guess I should have included a smiley

The Landover Baptist site has a wealth of good stuff unless you happen
to be a Christian fundamentalist, did you check out the children's books?

"dkat" wrote in message
t...
The problem is that we now live in a world that feels as if those you
parodied will soon be the people who control all. They currently control
many school boards which is why schools are teaching the bible as
science and banning the teaching of evolution. They are President Bush's
base which he caters to and they seem to gain more power each election.

Quite true, I believe I read a while back that administration officials were
holding regular meetings with these religious zealots, though the details
escape me.

It is no longer easy to tell when someone is funning because the
fundamentalist culture believes what you said in your original post.
We are not talking the fringe edge that keeps to itself anymore.Science
and medicine is now being dictated to by religious extremist. So yes,
sadly, you really do have to put a smiley face on what was not too long
ago considered way to crazy to be anything other than a joke.

My bad then, being British I'm far removed from the immediacy of such
extremist views and within an all British group I doubt that anyone would
have taken me at all seriously.

snip

I find it extremely odd and very disconcerting that countries like England with an
"official" religion have so much less religious fanatics than the U.S. which
maintains (well until recently) the separation of church and state.
What the U.S. needs is a constitutional amendment that taxes "churches" that get
involved in the state (i.e. politics) and all church property that isnt used
specifically for church activities. I am tired of paying high taxes for religiously
exempt properties and churches who are busy trying to excommunicate anyone doesnt
agree with their political view points.
How in the world it has come to the point that my taxes now pay for somebody else to
send their kids to religious or private schools I will never understand. Or how my
tax dollars go for buses and materials for religious schools. arrrgggghhhhh.
Ingrid

"Evil Noodle" wrote:
My bad then, being British I'm far removed from the immediacy of such
extremist views and within an all British group I doubt that anyone would
have taken me at all seriously.

snip




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote in message
...
snip
How in the world it has come to the point that my taxes now pay for
somebody else to
send their kids to religious or private schools I will never understand.
Or how my
tax dollars go for buses and materials for religious schools.
arrrgggghhhhh.
snip

Ingrid this is something I grumble about often.

BV.

I will dip my tippy toe into this discussion, as this issue is near and dear to
my heart and paycheck.
In our state we passed an intiative to reduce class sizes and increase teacher
pay. The governor suspended this action as we just don't have enough money. (We
do have money to spend millions and millions on high stakes testing, which is
highly suspect that this is a good thing, but that is a whole 'nother issue.)
BUT... the legislature just passed the authorization to take state funds, that
are apparently very dear, and establish charter schools. Now another group of
citizens has started a petition drive to put an intiative on the ballot to
outlaw charter schools... it is two steps forward, six steps to one side, three
steps back, bow to your partner....



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
snip
How in the world it has come to the point that my taxes now pay for
somebody else to
send their kids to religious or private schools I will never understand.
Or how my
tax dollars go for buses and materials for religious schools.
arrrgggghhhhh.
snip

Ingrid this is something I grumble about often.

BV.

In Ontario we had a very short lived tax credit that allowed parents to send
their kids to religious and/or private schools and receive gov't money to do
this. It took $ directly out of the public system. Thankfully our new
provincial government got rid of that in a hurry. Public school funding is
in enough trouble without that sort of nonsense.

Jacqui

--

"axeman chris" wrote in message
...

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
snip
How in the world it has come to the point that my taxes now pay for
somebody else to
send their kids to religious or private schools I will never
understand.
Or how my
tax dollars go for buses and materials for religious schools.
arrrgggghhhhh.
snip

Ingrid this is something I grumble about often.

BV.

In Ontario we had a very short lived tax credit that allowed parents to
send
their kids to religious and/or private schools and receive gov't money to
do
this. It took $ directly out of the public system. Thankfully our new
provincial government got rid of that in a hurry. Public school funding
is
in enough trouble without that sort of nonsense.

Jacqui


But one must also go on to say that here in Ontario we also have publically
funded religious education Jacqui.... That would be our seperate school
boards ( read Catholic School Boards for our Ameri-friends)! It's guaranteed
constitutionally under the British North American Act as well as the Tache
Act.

Janet in Niagara Falls, a proud Mom to 3 students in the seperate board. )

yup. and some of these charter schools dont have any review system so when suddenly
they shut their door cause they gone bankrupt ... all the kids are stuffed back into
the public system. now. what really gets me is Wisconsin PUBLIC school system has
1/2 of all the kids score 100% on the SATs nationwide last year.. it is the PUBLIC
schools systems that produce the most national merit scholars. but it is mostly the
wealthier suburban public schools that get something like twice as much money per
student as the city kids since how much each kid gets is based on property taxes.
rural kids suffer poorer schools too. we moved into the city cause DH wanted to work
with city kids. but these kids need more than burb kids. a lot of them have
learning disabilities that are inherited from parents who were themselves untreated
and under educated. or mental illnesses, drug abuse, etc. DH comes home with real
horror stories, kids even getting killed. children cannot do well in school when
they live in total chaos from the day they are born.
and no private or religious school gonna take kids with these kind of problems. for
all that private/religious schools get to take the cream of the crop the kids dont do
any better on standardized tests than the kids from public schools. all this really
does is take money from the only system that is mandated to provide for all kids no
matter what language they speak, how physically or mentally handicapped, no matter
how disruptive. pfffft.
Ingrid

EROSPAM (Ka30P) wrote:
I will dip my tippy toe into this discussion, as this issue is near and dear to
my heart and paycheck.
In our state we passed an intiative to reduce class sizes and increase teacher
pay. The governor suspended this action as we just don't have enough money. (We
do have money to spend millions and millions on high stakes testing, which is
highly suspect that this is a good thing, but that is a whole 'nother issue.)
BUT... the legislature just passed the authorization to take state funds, that
are apparently very dear, and establish charter schools. Now another group of
citizens has started a petition drive to put an intiative on the ballot to
outlaw charter schools... it is two steps forward, six steps to one side, three
steps back, bow to your partner....


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Question to my sister Canuks -- I went to elementary school in Vancouver BC in
the 60s and I remember being read Bible stories. Specifically Joesph and his
Coat of many Colours. I didn't think much of it until I was older, in the
states and the whole religion in public institutions started to take center
stage.
Do any of you remember religious teaching in elementary school? I attended
grades one thru three, then grades seven thru nine.


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"axeman chris" wrote in message
...
snip
In Ontario we had a very short lived tax credit that allowed parents to
send
their kids to religious and/or private schools and receive gov't money
to
do
this. It took $ directly out of the public system. Thankfully our new
provincial government got rid of that in a hurry. Public school
funding
is
in enough trouble without that sort of nonsense.

The whole voucher program and anything like it, to me, screams, "our
school
suck so let's give up and send them mone elsewhere." I have nothing
against
religion, but I don't want to pay for it.

BV.

It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more money you take away, the
worse the school does get. I know proponents of vouchers claim that system
gives all parents & students choice, but tell that to the single working
mother who can't drive/taxi her kid across town to the "good" school.

Jacqui

Kathy, I definitely was but then I went to a seperate school. ;o)
Janet in muggy Niagara Falls

--

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...

Question to my sister Canuks -- I went to elementary school in Vancouver
BC in
the 60s and I remember being read Bible stories. Specifically Joesph and
his
Coat of many Colours. I didn't think much of it until I was older, in the
states and the whole religion in public institutions started to take
center
stage.
Do any of you remember religious teaching in elementary school? I attended
grades one thru three, then grades seven thru nine.


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A