Well, I personally wouldn't have a livelihood which involved the
slaughter of animals, I'm vegetarian and working at transitioning into
veganism.

My sympathy.

I hardly think people who run animals over for sport, using
their snowmobile, are doing it to save their livelihood.

Actually, he finds them with the snowmobile, then shoots them. Though he
has been known to run them down if he runs out of bullets. There are a
*lot* of them out there.

And since
you asked, no, it's not okay with me if an animal kills another animal
even if it's natural. It rips my heart out just thinking of the lives
which are ended in brutal violence so other animals can eat. I cringe
if I see a bear eating a salmon, or if I see a human gunning for an
animal for fun. It's really bad karma. The way karma works is that
when you kill, you will be killed. It may not be in this life, but it
will ripen in any life when the conditions present themselves. A
coyote was once a human who killed coyotes with their snowmobile. So,
as a Buddhist, I refrain from doing those sorts of things to prevent
being born in the animal realms. You may not believe in karma, and
that's okay too,but even Christ loved all living things and didn't
intentionally kill any of them to help them not starve.

Whoa.....that's deep. Crap.

Bourne Identity wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:08:24 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


Leaving too many coyotes in an area is bad for ALL the wildlife,
including the coytes.

Sometimes there is not enough food for them so they either starve to
death, or eat people's pets (and children), and wipe out ALL the
other wildlife in an area. They are very prolific.

There are limits that have to be set sometimes.

When was the last time a child was eaten by a coyote around here (or
anywhere for that matter)?

It was somewhere in California, don't recall which city; but they have
problems with cougars preying on children there too. Cougars and grizzly
bears in Montana, though I haven't heard that they GOT any. Children, that
is. They have killed and eaten the occasional backpacker or stupid tourist,
though...

Carnivores eat meat, so there's no surprise. Have you checked the
Sudan lately, where people are dying by the tens of thousands per
week? They are overpopulated, should we go in and start shooting
them, or worse, for sport kill them with our snowmobiles? What's that
about?

Mother Nature is taking care of that for us.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:35:00 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:

When was the last time a child was eaten by a coyote around here (or
anywhere for that matter)?

Los Angeles.

when?


What does that have to do with local coyote overpopulation???

Nothing

Yeah. Nothing. I don't see killing a coyote any less horrible than
if you killed a human being. Killing is killing. That's what it has
to do with it. Your example of overpopulation is grossly inaccurate,
as well.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:41:32 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


In _your_ tradition.
In mine, human and animal spirits are separate.
Cruelty to animals still builds bad Karma (and payback) and the 3 fold
law is worse than anything you could possibly come up with. ;-)
If he is truly killing for "sport", not for culling, that is wrong. If I
kill to protect my flock and the gods see fit to punish me for it, so be
it...

What is your tradition? I guess with a three fold law, it is some
form of paganism? That's fine. However, Buddhists do not believe in a
god, we are basically considered atheist. We don't believe in
punishment. We believe in cause and effect, and the Sanskrit word,
"karma" means "action." The law of cause and effect. IT's not
punishment.



And nothing in the bible ever said that Christ was a vegetarian.


I didn't say he was vegetarian. I said he wouldn't kill for any of
the reasons you gave.

He at fish for one thing.

Cheers!

Mmm.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:13:19 GMT, "Cindy" wrote:

It was somewhere in California, don't recall which city; but they have
problems with cougars preying on children there too. Cougars and grizzly
bears in Montana, though I haven't heard that they GOT any. Children, that
is. They have killed and eaten the occasional backpacker or stupid tourist,
though...


So, you are advocating we kill all animals which are potentially
dangerous? You are also very disrespectful, so it doesn't surprise
me to hear of your flippant attitude where the life of an animal is
concerned. Voted for Bushie, did ya?

Carnivores eat meat, so there's no surprise. Have you checked the
Sudan lately, where people are dying by the tens of thousands per
week? They are overpopulated, should we go in and start shooting
them, or worse, for sport kill them with our snowmobiles? What's that
about?

Mother Nature is taking care of that for us.


How nice. My explanation about Buddhist thought is crap, but you
believe in something called "Mother Nature." What exactly is mother
nature?

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:35:00 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:

When was the last time a child was eaten by a coyote around here (or
anywhere for that matter)?

Los Angeles.

when?

Google for it...
There are numerous references.



What does that have to do with local coyote overpopulation???

Nothing

Yeah. Nothing. I don't see killing a coyote any less horrible than
if you killed a human being. Killing is killing. That's what it has
to do with it. Your example of overpopulation is grossly inaccurate,
as well.

Your wierd.

Bu-bye!

plonk
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:41:32 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


In _your_ tradition.
In mine, human and animal spirits are separate.
Cruelty to animals still builds bad Karma (and payback) and the 3 fold
law is worse than anything you could possibly come up with. ;-)
If he is truly killing for "sport", not for culling, that is wrong. If I
kill to protect my flock and the gods see fit to punish me for it, so be
it...

What is your tradition? I guess with a three fold law, it is some
form of paganism? That's fine. However, Buddhists do not believe in a
god, we are basically considered atheist. We don't believe in
punishment. We believe in cause and effect, and the Sanskrit word,
"karma" means "action." The law of cause and effect. IT's not
punishment.

lol Buddhism is a pan-theistic religeon.




And nothing in the bible ever said that Christ was a vegetarian.


I didn't say he was vegetarian. I said he wouldn't kill for any of
the reasons you gave.

Your wierd.

And impractical...

I hope you never own any poultry.
You'd let racoons and possums eat them all because it was "wrong" to
kill them. If you trap them, it's illegal to relocate them. They are
supposed to be destroyed.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:19:31 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


lol Buddhism is a pan-theistic religeon.

Tibetan Buddhists do not believe in god the creator. Sorry. The
deities involved in Buddhism are realized beings who have been
enlightened, the way Buddha Shakyamuni was, and every sentient being
has the same exact potential...and that would include animals.


Buddha's are not in the sky, nor do they represent the moon, or
goddess or god. I wouldn't tell you about your tradition, so, best
not to tell me about mine. I'll take what His Holiness says as an
accurate source for my beliefs. On CNN when asked, The Dalai Lama
clearly said that, (paraphrased), in Tibetan Buddhism there is no
belief in a creator or creation. So, in those terms, it is atheist;
and he said as much, using that word, atheist.


I hope you never own any poultry.
You'd let racoons and possums eat them all because it was "wrong" to
kill them. If you trap them, it's illegal to relocate them. They are
supposed to be destroyed.

If I ever had poultry, they'd have a secure area where there would be
no possiblity of a predator coming in contact with them.

Bourne Identity wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:13:19 GMT, "Cindy" wrote:

It was somewhere in California, don't recall which city; but they
have problems with cougars preying on children there too. Cougars
and grizzly bears in Montana, though I haven't heard that they GOT
any. Children, that is. They have killed and eaten the occasional
backpacker or stupid tourist, though...


So, you are advocating we kill all animals which are potentially
dangerous? You are also very disrespectful, so it doesn't surprise
me to hear of your flippant attitude where the life of an animal is
concerned. Voted for Bushie, did ya?

You asked where a coyote had ever killed a child. I answered as much as I
can remember, and added a few other instances where predators have killed or
stalked children or people. I'd suggest if you really care, you should do
some research.....

Nothing was said by anyone about killing all predators.

However, if my brother wants to kill off some of the coyotes that kill his
calves AND get some enjoyment out of it, more power to him. Coyotes make
great target practice, and he used to make a few bucks off the pelts too,
though I don't believe he skins them out anymore, as the verminous beasts
have been found to carry bubonic plague. (You could probably Google that
too, if you're interested.)

Carnivores eat meat, so there's no surprise. Have you checked the
Sudan lately, where people are dying by the tens of thousands per
week? They are overpopulated, should we go in and start shooting
them, or worse, for sport kill them with our snowmobiles? What's
that about?

Mother Nature is taking care of that for us.


How nice. My explanation about Buddhist thought is crap, but you
believe in something called "Mother Nature." What exactly is mother
nature?

Actually, I'd describe your "explanation" of Buddhism as more wacked-out
than anything.

Do you always act dense to find a new topic to argue about? 'Mother
Nature' is a kind and anthropomorphic way of referring to natural selection.
As in, only the strongest, swiftest or smartest survive. And it's not NICE
to fool Mother NATURE.....

LOL

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:17:54 GMT, "Cindy" wrote:

Bourne Identity wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:13:19 GMT, "Cindy" wrote:

It was somewhere in California, don't recall which city; but they
have problems with cougars preying on children there too. Cougars
and grizzly bears in Montana, though I haven't heard that they GOT
any. Children, that is. They have killed and eaten the occasional
backpacker or stupid tourist, though...


So, you are advocating we kill all animals which are potentially
dangerous? You are also very disrespectful, so it doesn't surprise
me to hear of your flippant attitude where the life of an animal is
concerned. Voted for Bushie, did ya?

You asked where a coyote had ever killed a child. I answered as much as I
can remember, and added a few other instances where predators have killed or
stalked children or people. I'd suggest if you really care, you should do
some research.....

Nothing was said by anyone about killing all predators.

However, if my brother wants to kill off some of the coyotes that kill his
calves AND get some enjoyment out of it, more power to him. Coyotes make
great target practice, and he used to make a few bucks off the pelts too,
though I don't believe he skins them out anymore, as the verminous beasts
have been found to carry bubonic plague. (You could probably Google that
too, if you're interested.)

Carnivores eat meat, so there's no surprise. Have you checked the
Sudan lately, where people are dying by the tens of thousands per
week? They are overpopulated, should we go in and start shooting
them, or worse, for sport kill them with our snowmobiles? What's
that about?

Mother Nature is taking care of that for us.


How nice. My explanation about Buddhist thought is crap, but you
believe in something called "Mother Nature." What exactly is mother
nature?

Actually, I'd describe your "explanation" of Buddhism as more wacked-out
than anything.

Do you always act dense to find a new topic to argue about? 'Mother
Nature' is a kind and anthropomorphic way of referring to natural selection.
As in, only the strongest, swiftest or smartest survive. And it's not NICE
to fool Mother NATURE.....

LOL


You are just a really angry, probably unhappy individual with not a
lot to say and you certainly aren't a critical thinker. So, it's
pretty useless for us to have a discussion about anything because you
don't have basic human compassion for life, let alone overall
intelligence and compassion. Good luck.

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:19:31 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


lol Buddhism is a pan-theistic religeon.

Tibetan Buddhists do not believe in god the creator. Sorry. The
deities involved in Buddhism are realized beings who have been
enlightened, the way Buddha Shakyamuni was, and every sentient being
has the same exact potential...and that would include animals.


I see you don't know what pan-theistic means...


I hope you never own any poultry.
You'd let racoons and possums eat them all because it was "wrong" to
kill them. If you trap them, it's illegal to relocate them. They are
supposed to be destroyed.

If I ever had poultry, they'd have a secure area where there would be
no possiblity of a predator coming in contact with them.

Good.

But then they can't be "natural".
Isn't that a sin?

BTW, do you kill cockroaches and houseflies, or rats?
Or do you let vermin over-run your house because it's wrong to kill them?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

You are just a really angry, probably unhappy individual with not a
lot to say and you certainly aren't a critical thinker. So, it's
pretty useless for us to have a discussion about anything because you
don't have basic human compassion for life, let alone overall
intelligence and compassion. Good luck.

And you are a very sorry, and lousy, Buddhist if you dare to judge other
people. Real ones mind their own business...

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Don't you remember the movie "7 Years in Tibet" where they aren't able to
make any progress building because the Buddists were afraid about killing
the worms. They wanted to relocate them all!
With hope and heart,
Kathleen
--
Sometimes the Lord calms the storm,
and sometimes He lets the storm rage
and calms the child instead.


BTW, do you kill cockroaches and houseflies, or rats?
Or do you let vermin over-run your house because it's wrong to kill them?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack
Nicholson

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:11:41 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:19:31 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:


lol Buddhism is a pan-theistic religeon.

Tibetan Buddhists do not believe in god the creator. Sorry. The
deities involved in Buddhism are realized beings who have been
enlightened, the way Buddha Shakyamuni was, and every sentient being
has the same exact potential...and that would include animals.


I see you don't know what pan-theistic means...

No, I don't. We don't use such words in Buddhism. Sorry about that. I
did give you a definition.

I hope you never own any poultry.
You'd let racoons and possums eat them all because it was "wrong" to
kill them. If you trap them, it's illegal to relocate them. They are
supposed to be destroyed.

If I ever had poultry, they'd have a secure area where there would be
no possiblity of a predator coming in contact with them.

Good.

But then they can't be "natural".
Isn't that a sin?

BTW, do you kill cockroaches and houseflies, or rats?
Or do you let vermin over-run your house because it's wrong to kill them?

No, I don't kill anything. Not rats, roaches, housefiles or other
things. We just last night rescued a baby gecko from my closet and
placed it gently outside. We've taken roaches outside from inside and
rats are kept away from the house by good sanitation, and a large
brush pile at the back of the property, where we also feed the birds.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:14:02 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
wrote:

In article ,
Bourne Identity wrote:

You are just a really angry, probably unhappy individual with not a
lot to say and you certainly aren't a critical thinker. So, it's
pretty useless for us to have a discussion about anything because you
don't have basic human compassion for life, let alone overall
intelligence and compassion. Good luck.

And you are a very sorry, and lousy, Buddhist if you dare to judge other
people. Real ones mind their own business...

Cheers!

I'm not the Buddha. I'm not a holy being or a perfect person. I
never claimed to be.